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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,


Trying to get my arms around my HT project.


To give you a better idea, here are the specs:


Room Dimensions:

25x15, 25x11.6 usable (3.5 foot walkway on left-most part of room, seats and screen right adjusted in room); All block construction room.


Layout Notes:

-2 rows of 4 x theater seats

-Refrig, equipment rack, and popcorn machine will be built out on the back wall, taking up 24" depth

-From this 24" depth, a 30" aisle walkway before the back row of seats

-9.1 Dolby layout


We are starting rough out tomorrow after gutting the old theater last week. Acoustical considerations are being kept in mind -i.e. 2 x 5/8 green board, green glue.


To assist with the build out, I am hoping to get some help finalizing decisions on the speakers, screen size, screen, and associated wiring requirements.


Speakers:

In front of AT screen:

Front left high front right high

Front left low center front right low

In line with back row:

middle left middle right

In ceiling?:

surround left surround right


In the front, I am assuming the AT screen will keep us covered for the front, left, center speakers. I was planning on mounting cabinets to house the speakers on both left and right center. Thinking the surrounds will be in-ceiling, but am open to suggestions.


I am hesitant to move forward on the build out before knowing the dimensions of the speakers I will be using, however, and am spinning my wheels trying to make the decision for the best sound system.


B&W 802D are top contenders, but I have been unsuccessful locating any reports on mounting these acoustic panels so they are not visible.


With so many choices and the moving targets on other required other accessories (i.e. amps, rcvr, etc), any ideas to help me through this mind-numbing process? Not really any budget constraints but am value minded. Anticipated use of HT would be mostly Blu-ray new releases and streamed HD content.


Screen:

I am thinking the projector should be at 14 feet from a 120" 16:9 AT 3D screen. Seymour AV seems to be the preferred choice around here.


Any validation/thoughts on this? Could I go bigger or 2.35:1?


Wiring:

What is the recommended speaker wire? I was planning on no less than 12AWG, but am somewhat uncertain how many wire pairs are required/recommended. Any thoughts on brand also? Looking to pull the trigger tomorrow with a bulk wire order.


Any insight/comments would be appreciated.
 

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Are you using isolation clips in your rough in? Are you planning on isolating your HVAC for sound transmission purposes?


Order in wall rated speaker wire from Monoprice. Copper is dumb as dirt. It can't read the label and tell the difference between Monster and Monoprice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23281610


Are you using isolation clips in your rough in? Are you planning on isolating your HVAC for sound transmission purposes?


Order in wall rated speaker wire from Monoprice. Copper is dumb as dirt. It can't read the label and tell the difference between Monster and Monoprice.

Affirm on the isolation clips. The current HVAC is a mess and new feeds into the room are going in. I am waiting on a plan from the HVAC contractor this week - will report what they present but reduced acoustic impacts have been stressed.


Great info on the wires, will follow suit.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet 

... I am hesitant to move forward on the build out before knowing the dimensions of the speakers I will be using, however, and am spinning my wheels trying to make the decision for the best sound system.

...

Any validation/thoughts on this? Could I go bigger or 2.35:1?

...

somewhat uncertain how many wire pairs are required/recommended.

...

If you are going with an AT screen, you should end up with plenty of height and width for any speakers. The issue to keep in mind is depth, the amount of room between the screen and the actual front wall of the theater.


Base your design on the room first, equipment second. Equipment changes are pretty common, but room changes are rare. Give yourself the space behind the screen, and then you'll have flexibility on what speakers you choose.


If you're mostly a movie watcher, I would consider 2.35:1. Size is based upon what your room can support, and your personal viewing preferences.


For how many pair to pull to each location, you will likely only need one.... however you can pull a second pair - or you can install a tube from your rack location to your speaker locations, and then add any new wires you need in the future.


Enjoy the ride!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenP  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23281692


If you are going with an AT screen, you should end up with plenty of height and width for any speakers. The issue to keep in mind is depth, the amount of room between the screen and the actual front wall of the theater.


Base your design on the room first, equipment second. Equipment changes are pretty common, but room changes are rare. Give yourself the space behind the screen, and then you'll have flexibility on what speakers you choose.


If you're mostly a movie watcher, I would consider 2.35:1. Size is based upon what your room can support, and your personal viewing preferences.


For how many pair to pull to each location, you will likely only need one.... however you can pull a second pair - or you can install a tube from your rack location to your speaker locations, and then add any new wires you need in the future.


Enjoy the ride!

Thanks for the info.


Plans have been changed after further research to include the 2.35:1 screen.


What is the best method to auto-mask 16:9 or 4:3 inputs to display on the 2.35:1 screen without black bars? I have seen anamorphic lens options but am leaning towards the dual 2.35:1 and 16:9 motorized screen option from Osprey.


In short, my three requirements for the screen/projector would be 3D, auto-masking or dual screens, and AT.


Can someone tell me what screen and projector to buy to meet these requirements?
I am not opposed to purchasing motorized anamorphic lens, if required.
 

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Screen and auto-masking:

http://www.seymourscreenexcellence.com/CH.asp


I have the Carada Masquerade, but their screens are not AT, so the Seymour system would be a better choice for you...


Choice of using an a-lens or not will depend on your budget and preferences. With the zoom/lens presets now available, you can do without at the cost of some brightness and ~20 seconds of transition time. If 3D is important, you're going to want all the brightness you can get.


Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23282244


Thanks for the info.


Plans have been changed after further research to include the 2.35:1 screen.


What is the best method to auto-mask 16:9 or 4:3 inputs to display on the 2.35:1 screen without black bars? I have seen anamorphic lens options but am leaning towards the dual 2.35:1 and 16:9 motorized screen option from Osprey.


In short, my three requirements for the screen/projector would be 3D, auto-masking or dual screens, and AT.


Can someone tell me what screen and projector to buy to meet these requirements?
I am not opposed to purchasing motorized anamorphic lens, if required.

Hard to answer these questions without:


- some kind of budget figure...

- how close is the first row of seats going to be?

- is the theater going to be blacked out?

- do you want to hit SMPTE / THX brightness targets ?


If you are going for very good or better I'd abandon the speakers designed for free space (B&W 802s) and go with an in wall model. Theaters typically have what is called a screen or baffle wall . If you are partial to B&W they do an in wall version, I think it is called the CI800. However, if you look around you'll see most of the top theaters are using compression drivers on horns (Procella, JBL Synthesis).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23281475


...


Not really any budget constraints but am value minded. Anticipated use of HT would be mostly Blu-ray new releases and streamed HD content.


...


Any validation/thoughts on this? Could I go bigger or 2.35:1?

Re: value minded, the B&Ws are fine speakers, but I wouldn't consider them a "value" in terms of price/performance, and also aren't really designed for HT - take a look at Seaton Catalysts in that general price range, among others.


Definitely can go bigger at that seating distance, but a lot of it comes down to preference - when you go to the movies, do you sit closer to the front, back or middle rows?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance/0_40#post_23281475



Room Dimensions:

25x15, 25x11.6 usable (3.5 foot walkway on left-most part of room, seats and screen right adjusted in room)

I would not right adjust the screen it will look odd, speaker side wall reflections will not be balanced, nor would I waste 3 1/2 ft for a walkway unless someone in your household is wheel chair bound, There are a few of side aisle theaters in my sig.


Summer fun, Ohio, Curve frenzy


Show us a sketch of your proposed space before lifting a hammer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23282865


Hard to answer these questions without:


- some kind of budget figure...

- how close is the first row of seats going to be?

- is the theater going to be blacked out?

- do you want to hit SMPTE / THX brightness targets ?


If you are going for very good or better I'd abandon the speakers designed for free space (B&W 802s) and go with an in wall model. Theaters typically have what is called a screen or baffle wall . If you are partial to B&W they do an in wall version, I think it is called the CI800. However, if you look around you'll see most of the top theaters are using compression drivers on horns (Procella, JBL Synthesis).

-Speaker budget around 15-20k? Flexible here if needed.

-First row of seats will be 11-12 feet from screen.

-Theater room will be blacked out

-Thanks for the article link, good stuff. I would like to hit those targets, so looks like with the AT screen, will need a higher output projector.


Great info on the speakers, and thanks for the education. I am not partial to B&W. After review of the JBL Synthesis, it looks like the Synthesis 4 In-wall system would be an all-encompassing solution for 7.1 and I could just add front highs. I would probably pass on the SDP-40HD processor/controller and SDEC-3000 digital equalizer to go with a different option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23282959


Re: value minded, the B&Ws are fine speakers, but I wouldn't consider them a "value" in terms of price/performance, and also aren't really designed for HT - take a look at Seaton Catalysts in that general price range, among others.


Definitely can go bigger at that seating distance, but a lot of it comes down to preference - when you go to the movies, do you sit closer to the front, back or middle rows?

Thanks - looks like Seaton's site is down but perused the forum briefly to get some info. Looks like a good option as well.


Usually am sitting in the middle rows when going out to the movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23283248


Have you considered that the refrigerator is going to raise the noise floor of the room?

Good point. Will need to research this further.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance/0_50#post_23282959


Re: value minded, the B&Ws are fine speakers, but I wouldn't consider them a "value" in terms of price/performance, and also aren't really designed for HT ...

I second Brad on B&W not being the top choice for best value. I would look at Sunfire Cinema Ribbon Trio, Triad In-Wall Gold and even Episode In-Wall 900 series as those are more suited for this kind of dimensions and give a huge bang for the buck. And in-wall surrounds will be better than in-ceiling surrounds.


Wish you the best with your build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23283491


I would not right adjust the screen it will look odd, speaker side wall reflections will not be balanced, nor would I waste 3 1/2 ft for a walkway unless someone in your household is wheel chair bound, There are a few of side aisle theaters in my sig.


Summer fun, Ohio, Curve frenzy


Show us a sketch of your proposed space before lifting a hammer.

Here is a photo of the rough sketch we are working from:



Based on your input, I understand the concerns around the speaker balance. Do you think we can still get 2 rows of 4 chairs in with adequate walkway? Appreciate your insight.
 

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I wouldn't put your projector at 14 ft. Draw your seating and riser plan and you will see why, Not a good idea to put it where you are walking on the riser. Put it over the second row seats where no one will hit their head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23284313


I wouldn't put your projector at 14 ft. Draw your seating and riser plan and you will see why, Not a good idea to put it where you are walking on the riser. Put it over the second row seats where no one will hit their head.

Thanks for the tip. 14 feet is just over the back of the front row. 36 inch allocated for row one, 36 inch isle, 36 inch seats for row two. 7.5" riser runs from back wall to back of first row of seats. The projector should only be a hazard if you are standing on the front row seats but will keep that in mind.


Follow-up for you re: the speaker balance and aisle location. If we center the screen, offset the seats (and possibly use half moon layout), how would this impact the speaker balance anymore than not sitting perfectly center at a commercial theater? Playing devil's advocate here, just want to get a better understanding to make sure we make appropriate updates asap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On another note, can someone straighten me on the screen purchase? I was gung-ho and set to pull trigger on the Seymour TAM 2-L 120, but am being told that dual 16:9 and 2.35 screens will yield better results with no compromises or requirement for anamorphic lens, masking, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance/0_40#post_23284566


Thanks for the tip. 14 feet is just over the back of the front row. 36 inch allocated for row one, 36 inch isle, 36 inch seats for row two. 7.5" riser runs from back wall to back of first row of seats. The projector should only be a hazard if you are standing on the front row seats but will keep that in mind.


The back of the first row should be at 11 1/2 - 12 ft. from the screen the back of the second at 18 -18 1/2 (assuming reclining seats) put the lens at 17 ft from the screen. But it would help to know your choice of projector and determine proper position. If you do a 16:9 to 2.35 zoom set up, the distance to the screen can be very specific with the Sony as the worst. In that case there is a about a 2 ft range to make it work, closer or farther and it won't happen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance/0_40#post_23284589


On another note, can someone straighten me on the screen purchase? I was gung-ho and set to pull trigger on the Seymour TAM 2-L 120, but am being told that dual 16:9 and 2.35 screens will yield better results with no compromises or requirement for anamorphic lens, masking, etc.

I'm in the middle of a similar depth room and we are shooting for a 130 wide 2.35 screen.


the choice between two screens versus one screen with masking is more complex than I have time to get into. gotta run.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0tnet  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23283503


-First row of seats will be 11-12 feet from screen.

-Theater room will be blacked out

-Thanks for the article link, good stuff. I would like to hit those targets, so looks like with the AT screen, will need a higher output projector.

The standard Seymour material will be fine for your needs. You can sit closer with the 4K material but need more projector brightness to make up for it.


Just make sure you get a bright enough projector to meet brightness targets. Note you can't rely on published lumens figures. Either use the figures on projectorreviews.com for lumens output when properly calibrated or consult with a manufacturer or dealer. Note there aren't many 'budget' projectors that meet brightness targets when using big AT screens. Epson and BenQ come to mind. If you have more money SIM2 and Runco have actual calibrated lumens figures available if you know who to ask. If you have the funds then yes the Seymour masking screens are the way to go.


Re speakers / subs. I'd bank on 4 subs minimum (2 front, 2 back in corners or 25%/75% of width) for even bass across all seats.


Any thoughts on acoustic treatment?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor  /t/1471416/rough-out-equipment-purchase-phase-looking-for-some-tips-guidance#post_23285709


The standard Seymour material will be fine for your needs. You can sit closer with the 4K material but need more projector brightness to make up for it.


Just make sure you get a bright enough projector to meet brightness targets. Note you can't rely on published lumens figures. Either use the figures on projectorreviews.com for lumens output when properly calibrated or consult with a manufacturer or dealer. Note there aren't many 'budget' projectors that meet brightness targets when using big AT screens. Epson and BenQ come to mind. If you have more money SIM2 and Runco have actual calibrated lumens figures available if you know who to ask. If you have the funds then yes the Seymour masking screens are the way to go.


Re speakers / subs. I'd bank on 4 subs minimum (2 front, 2 back in corners or 25%/75% of width) for even bass across all seats.


Any thoughts on acoustic treatment?

The SIM2 Hero or the Sony VW1000ES were the main two contenders due to the feature specs.


On that note, I still am struggling through a screen decision. The automasking Seymour seemed like the best choice but can't get a grasp as to why everyone doesn't just use the Osprey Dual Tension screens and call it a day, having both 16:9 and 2.35:1 options at the touch of a button. What am I missing? I would like to order the screen and projector tomorrow so I don't get too far behind.



Acoustic treatment is via insulation clips and double drywall with green glue. Additional bass traps and insulation will be used as well. Lastly, planning on acoustic panels along the side walls where needed.
 
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