[Samyel]

Hello. I'm new at this game, and before chiming in, I've spent a lot of time reading the comments of those with more experience. But, now I've got a question that I haven't yet seen clearly answered. Namely, will I really see the difference if I spend a grand for a machine like Sony's DVP-NS999ES, as opposed to a well-reviewed machine like Panny's RP-82?


Mind you, I just bought a pretty nice HDTV -- a Hitachi 65XWX20B -- so, an excellent picture to go along with it is extremely important to me. I've also got an audiophile quality sound system, so I'm into good sound, as well.


That said, I'm willing to spend the bucks to go with something like the Sony or, perhaps, the upcoming Yamaha S2300. But will I really see what I paid for?


I hope this brings some comments from those of you who have been around these machines for some time. It is not the Panny or the Sony that I'm necessarily interest in, but rather the issue of bang for the buck.


I have a feeling that knowledgable comments will helpful to many of us out here.


Thanks a lot.

Sam

 

[Bob Saylor]

To be honest, the best bang for the buck may be the Panny. The 999 has shown a few problems that take away a little from it. But the 999 does get an incredible picture otherwise and IMO, I don't think the Panny can match it. The same goes for SACD playback. Actually, the 999 is outstanding as an audio player, period. That's not to say that the panasonic isn't good. It just doesn't match the 999. Again, that's just my opinion. And yes, I have seen and heard both players in action.


But you asked about bang for the buck. I think in that respect the Panasonic would be the better choice.

 

[dmunsil]

From a video standpoint, the RP-82 is a superior player, so no, you would not get an improvement on the video side. On the audio side, I'm not the right person to ask.


Don

 

[Ran]

Hi Don,


As a past owner of an RP-91 and as a current owner of a 999ES, I wonder on what basis did you reach your conclusion?

I do know that this thread is about the RP-82, but I believe that the RP-91 has similar if not superior PQ.

I have seen the 999ES and the RP-91 side by side and the 999ES exhibited a much more detailed and 3D picture then the Panny. More over the 999ES colors and Black level were on a different level then the Panny's. This observation came after watching a few films which I'm very familiar with. If your observation was made due to the fact that the Sony has the c.bug, then for me it's a mute issue as it is hardly noticeable on the Sony and one needs to look for specific films and specific 1 second scenes to notice it, I'd rather have a player which displays an overall superior picture.

Best,


Ran

 

[suffolk112000]

Samyel,

As you are noticing.... opinions vary heavily on this site.

My best recommendation to you is to demo both products and view them for your self because in the end, you are the one that will be stuck with your purchase if you are not happy.

I have never demoed the 999ES but for $1000 it should be a better machine than the $200 RP-82.

I own the 82.

Before my purchase, I demoed both the Panasonic 91, ($600+) and 82, and video wise the 82 was the better machine in my opinion. Not to mention the price was considerably cheaper.

It sounds like you are the one that will ultimately have to decide if the Sony is worth the extra bucks for what it does or does not do better than the 82.

Let us all know what you decide.


Craig

 

[Samyel]

Actually, I'm looking for this thread not to be about the RP-82 or the NS999ES, spacifically. I'm hoping to open a general discussion on the issue of value. That is, are we really getting what we pay for when purchasing a high-priced machine like the NS999ES or Denon's DVD-3800? Or does a machine at half the price (or less) give us virtually the same quality? Especially when it includes Faroudja technology?


As I said, I for one would be willing to spend the dollars for better quality. But I simply want to know if that is what I'll get.


You are right, Craig, it would certainly be best if I could demo the RP-82 (or RP-91) and NS999ES (or DVD-3800) side-by-side, but that may not be possible. Although, I admit I'm considering buying both and returning one.


In any case, I think this discussion could be helpful to many of us, and I hope that more people chime in.


Thanks for your comments, up till now.


Sam

 

[sspears]

Quote:

More over the 999ES colors and Black level were on a different level then the Panny's.

Once you adjust the picture conrols to their correct position for each DVD player, these differences go away. Care to guess which one was closer to correct? This is like not setting the levels correctly and then comparing to receivers, the louder one often wins. It is a simple, yet very common, mistake.


Let me ask this, why are you spending $1200 on a DVD player? Is it because you want higher quality? That is why I would spend more on a DVD player, but that is just me.


With that said, how would you define quality? The image on screen or the size / weight? I ask that because they don't go hand in hand. In fact, some of the heavier players have been the worst peformers.

 

[SilverSonic]

What you get for your extra money is MUCH better audio quality. SACD multichannel and Redbook CD playback are worth the price difference alone. Advanced Lip Sync controls for each speaker is a good reason too. There is more to DVD playback than just video quality.....

 

[MikeSRC]

Quote:

Originally posted by sspears With that said, how would you define quality? The image on screen or the size / weight? I ask that because they don't go hand in hand. In fact, some of the heavier players have been the worst peformers.

I agree. I had a Toshiba SD-9000 that was one of the heaviest players I've seen. It was built like a tank, yet it had the chroma bug pretty bad and its picture quality didn't compare to a Panasonic RV-80 I bought a year later.

 

[Samyel]

Quote:

Originally posted by SilverSonic What you get for your extra money is MUCH better audio quality. SACD multichannel and Redbook CD playback are worth the price difference alone. Advanced Lip Sync controls for each speaker is a good reason too. There is more to DVD playback than just video quality.....

I agree, good sound is important, too. But, for those of us interested in DVD movie playback only and not SACD, CD, etc, is the sound of the more expensive machines much better than the sound produced by the less expensive machines?

 

[SilverSonic]

Price is no guarantee of performance.... but in the case of the 999ES, movie audio tracks benefit just as much on the 999ES. What is most noticable on a DVD player with very good audio capabilities is that soft dialog passages are clearly heard. Players with not so good audio will have you reaching for the remote to control volume many times during a movie with soft dialog and loud action scenes. What ever you do, compare players in YOUR setup at home, not in a store and look for a good return policy in case you're not happy.

 

[MikeSRC]

One thing to remember when talking about audio quality on a DVD player is that any real differences will likely only be heard through the player's analog outputs. If you're using a digital connection to your receiver or preamplifier (so that youre' using the receiver or preamp's DD/DTS decoders and DACs), any differences in sound on movies should be nonexistent.

 

[sspears]

Quote:

but in the case of the 999ES, movie audio tracks benefit just as much on the 999ES.

I have had over 60 DVD players, including the 999 and they all sound the same on DD and DTS through the SPDIF output.


Now using the internal decoder has provided different results.

 

[SilverSonic]

I guess I should have clarified this. I am speaking of the use of the internal DACS/decoder of the DVD player, not the receiver. It is agreed that you would be wasting the audio capabilities of the 999ES on almost all receivers by bypassing it's decoder. I'm pretty sure it's not the intended setup unless the DVD player lacks internal decoding or is subpar on it's audio quality. This would be the equivalent to using a TV's internal deinterlacer over a DVD players. A big no-no, generally speaking.

 

[Samyel]

SilverSonic, I've got a top-end receiver, a Yamaha RX-V1. It's got Brown-Burr decoders, et al. Are you saying that the 999ES will produce better sound than a high-end receiver, or do you think it will be about the same?


And, if you think it would be about the same, then shouldn't I stick with a less expensive player that gives me excellent video and a digital out for the receiver? And if I should go with a less expensive machine, which has the best video?

 

[JPinTO]

Quote:

Originally posted by sspears Once you adjust the picture conrols to their correct position for each DVD player, these differences go away. Care to guess which one was closer to correct? This is like not setting the levels correctly and then comparing to receivers, the louder one often wins. It is a simple, yet very common, mistake. Let me ask this, why are you spending $1200 on a DVD player? Is it because you want higher quality? That is why I would spend more on a DVD player, but that is just me. With that said, how would you define quality? The image on screen or the size / weight? I ask that because they don't go hand in hand. In fact, some of the heavier players have been the worst peformers.

I'm trying to read between the lines and get a bottom line, but having a bit of difficulty: If one defines "quality" as the best image on the screen... then your preference is what?


I currently have an RP56 and will pay more money for a better picture (don't care about audio)... but what DVD player actually has better PQ? Or are you saying that the differences are miniscule regardless of price tag?


- JP

 

[Ran]

Stacey,


Thanx for your input.

Are you saying that in terms of Video the RP-82 is superior to the 999ES?

Let me ask you this, when you say one is better then the other, what does that actually mean?


Just watching the 2 players side by side, which has better depth, black level, color rendition?

I'm actually feeding my Seleco 300+ an interlace signal from the 999ES, which outperformed the Panny's interlace signal.


Best,

Ran

 

[SilverSonic]

Samyel, you have an excellent receiver. I would venture a guess that the 999ES would not be a significant improvement to the Yamaha's BB 1705 DACs but you would lose the Advance Lip Sync feature of the 999ES if that matters. Also, the Yamaha does Bass Management via PCM unlike the BM DSD capability of the 999ES. All told, perhaps the Pioneer DV45 or Panasonic RP91 would be good choices on video quality alone (letting the Yamaha do the decoding)...


Good Luck with your hunt. For most, this is the funnest part of HT!

 

[sspears]

Quote:

then your preference is what?

Honest and accurate. There is a standard and the voltage levels coming out of a DVD player should be at a specific level. When you see more saturated colors it is because the chroma voltage is higher and / or the brigthness is lower.


The video levels like brigthness contrast, color, and tint are one thing and these can be removed by proper setup.


Next up is component channel timing. If all three signals do not arrive at the same time, then you will have discolored or smeared edges.


Then there is video noise. I forget, but I think D1 SN is somewhere in the mid 50s. So most DVD players do not have a problem here. The higher the SN simply means that the hardware is not adding any noise to it.


Frequency response has a large impact on the image. But this is also tied to the display. Adjsuting sharpness will kind of balance it, but the sharpness control on a TV only works on certain frequencies. This is not something you can easly adjust out. If there is peaking, it can emphasize noise in the image.


Most video encoders (where the video DAC lives) offer a digital sharpness control. After the DAC you also have the analog reconstruction filters (anti-imaging) Both of these will have change the frequency respose. They can also change the phase response.


Then there are MPEG decoder differences. The chroma bug is one issue. iDCT is another. While I have not seen any STB players have this problem, some PC DVD players have iDCT issues.


Deinterlacing is another issue.

 

[Samyel]

You're right about this being fun, SilverSonic, though my girlfriend thinks I'm crazy. On the otherhand, even she has to admit she's benefitted from all this insanity.


Oh, and you've brought a new ingredient into the mix. I haven't even looked at the Pioneer DV45. But I will now.


Also, you're suggesting the RP91, not the RP82. I thought the 82 was supposed to have better video. Though I admit that the scaling capabilities of the 91 intrigue me.