I use the RP56 with the Hitachi 61swx10b. The lack of scaling is not a problem as switching between Full and Fill mode works for all of my DVD's thus far. However, I can notice absolutely no difference between progressive and interlaced settings on the RP56. I believe that I have tried all possible Monitor and DVD player settings including "cinema" and "auto" selections on the RP56 using the component outputs and have used an adequate number of disks including 5th element. Diagonal lines still clearly have a jagged appearence. Also, I must always use the noise reduction feature of the 61swx10b otherwise there is too much noise. Does anyone know if this is normal? Did I get a defective player? Did some players get a chip other than the sage?
RP56 picture quality
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I also have the RP56, but I have a Mitsubishi HDTV ready TV and I also don't see any difference between the two. Are there any specific DVDs that highlight the progressive scan advantage? I have a tiny selection of DVDs (50ish) and I cant see any difference in picture quality over my older Pioneer DV-414. (In fact the chroma bug makes some movies, Toy Story look worse on the RP56) Am I doing something wrong?
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Folks - I find it amazing you cannot perceive any differences between the progressive and interlaced settings on your respective screens.
In general, the larger the screen the more apparent but there are no absolutes.
Some screens have pretty darn good line doublers and it may be yours are right up there, hence minimizing the need for a progressive scan player.
I find the best place to perceive the difference are credits. The slowly scrolling white text usually is a great place to look for artifacts, etc. The differences are not always dramatic but they should be perceptible.
I own three DVD players, but find the RP56 to work great with my 50" Fujitsu 5002 plasma. I can see the difference between progressive and interlaced instantly. But on the other hand, if you cannot then why bother with progressive? Enjoy your gear!
regards,
patrick
In general, the larger the screen the more apparent but there are no absolutes.
Some screens have pretty darn good line doublers and it may be yours are right up there, hence minimizing the need for a progressive scan player.
I find the best place to perceive the difference are credits. The slowly scrolling white text usually is a great place to look for artifacts, etc. The differences are not always dramatic but they should be perceptible.
I own three DVD players, but find the RP56 to work great with my 50" Fujitsu 5002 plasma. I can see the difference between progressive and interlaced instantly. But on the other hand, if you cannot then why bother with progressive? Enjoy your gear!
regards,
patrick
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The other thing is to keep in mind the price point of this player. I picked it up for $216, replacing a 2nd gen Tosh DVD player I bought in 1998.
Picture quality seems excellent given the price point, and no, I also can't see a great difference when using the Panny's progressive output vs using my Toshiba's doubler, but regardless, it's still a pretty fantastic picture given the price point.
Picture quality seems excellent given the price point, and no, I also can't see a great difference when using the Panny's progressive output vs using my Toshiba's doubler, but regardless, it's still a pretty fantastic picture given the price point.
patrickthickey,
I brought an RP56 about 11 days ago and initially did not notice any improvement in quality. I posted a question then deleted it fearing a reply such as yours. Blame the user and denigrate them for noticing the naked emporer.
All,
I have a TW568X1 which does not have a great line doubler and was previously using a Denon 3000 so I should have noticed some difference.
Knowing technically that there must be a difference and persevering I recalibrated my set as it had not been done for about 9 months. Once I had done that I checked out the resolution patterns in Avia. Switching between interlace and progressive I started noticing better resolution and less ringing in progressive. Going back to regular DVD's I did start noticing a difference. i.e better colour rendition and more detail. Persevere, unless you are upgrading from an Apex, the difference is not dramatic, but it is there and it makes for a more pleasing viewing experience.
I brought an RP56 about 11 days ago and initially did not notice any improvement in quality. I posted a question then deleted it fearing a reply such as yours. Blame the user and denigrate them for noticing the naked emporer.
All,
I have a TW568X1 which does not have a great line doubler and was previously using a Denon 3000 so I should have noticed some difference.
Knowing technically that there must be a difference and persevering I recalibrated my set as it had not been done for about 9 months. Once I had done that I checked out the resolution patterns in Avia. Switching between interlace and progressive I started noticing better resolution and less ringing in progressive. Going back to regular DVD's I did start noticing a difference. i.e better colour rendition and more detail. Persevere, unless you are upgrading from an Apex, the difference is not dramatic, but it is there and it makes for a more pleasing viewing experience.
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Upon patrickthickey's suggestion about watching the credits, I watched the end credits on "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" and noticed a significant improvement. This is really the only place I have seen any improvement over my previous player.
I am guessing that this means I have a good line doubler built into my TV........? (Mitsubishi WS 55805)
I am guessing that this means I have a good line doubler built into my TV........? (Mitsubishi WS 55805)
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Deadly Shadow -
there you have it. You can see the effects when the process is made simple, the scrolling credits in a high contrast scene. Take the results for what they are worth - the progressive scan is cleaner across the board but not necessarily in-your-face better. All scenes will have this higher degree of detail and fewer artifacts.
Is the difference enough to warrant the upgrade? That's your call but at least you have verified the issue. I'm geek enough to simply want it to be as good as feasible and keep edging the bar higher. Knowing the credits are cleaner should result in your knowing the whole movie is cleaner. Does that matter to you?
sjhenry - you lost me on the metaphor? I was not denigrating you nor do I mock naked emperors ;-)
regards,
patrick
there you have it. You can see the effects when the process is made simple, the scrolling credits in a high contrast scene. Take the results for what they are worth - the progressive scan is cleaner across the board but not necessarily in-your-face better. All scenes will have this higher degree of detail and fewer artifacts.
Is the difference enough to warrant the upgrade? That's your call but at least you have verified the issue. I'm geek enough to simply want it to be as good as feasible and keep edging the bar higher. Knowing the credits are cleaner should result in your knowing the whole movie is cleaner. Does that matter to you?
sjhenry - you lost me on the metaphor? I was not denigrating you nor do I mock naked emperors ;-)
regards,
patrick
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patrickthickey -
I was expecting an "in-your-face improvement, but this is an improvement. I, like you, am "geek enough" to want to keep the player for the improvement in quality it does give, and the price makes it worthwhile.
Thanks for your help!
I was expecting an "in-your-face improvement, but this is an improvement. I, like you, am "geek enough" to want to keep the player for the improvement in quality it does give, and the price makes it worthwhile.
Thanks for your help!
No need to look at credits to see the difference.
On my XBR400 (I know, I know, ppl don't like DRC and it does not have 3:2 pulldown, only 2nd gen DRC does) and mt RP56 I can see significant alisiasing (stair stepping) in the Matrix when Neo is in the police interview room. He is wearing a white shirt and dark tie. The edge of the tie against his shirt shows the aliasing in interlaced mode but it has gone in progressive mode.
That's the only test I ever did as this satisfied me.
On my XBR400 (I know, I know, ppl don't like DRC and it does not have 3:2 pulldown, only 2nd gen DRC does) and mt RP56 I can see significant alisiasing (stair stepping) in the Matrix when Neo is in the police interview room. He is wearing a white shirt and dark tie. The edge of the tie against his shirt shows the aliasing in interlaced mode but it has gone in progressive mode.
That's the only test I ever did as this satisfied me.
I just got the RP 56 2 days ago and I have only watched 1 film after I got it hooked upp last night. Star Wars I. I read Don and Stacy's comments on secrets on progressive and even they noted that there is suttle differances. I also was looking for the in your face change...... But there are differances. I am using a Tosh 56H80, calibrated, and a Denon 3700, all using good calbles and component out. The wife and I do see suttle differances so that is good and the $200 price is a great bargin.
PS Best Buy had a rebate on the "Planet of the Apes" DVD with this free.
PS Best Buy had a rebate on the "Planet of the Apes" DVD with this free.
I'm borrowing an RP56 while the non-progressive player I got with my PJ is awaiting replacement (when cabled via components, no red in picture).
Here's the kicker - I didn't even figure out you have to push the button on the front to activate "Progressive" mode until I had the DVD player over a week! Pays to read the manual I guess, but its a complicated manual and I liek to figure things out for myself....
After flipping back and forth between prog and non prog, I had a very hard time noting the difference (rolling text at the beginning of Bladerunner for example looked practically identical - both had some rolling of the white text). I'm not sure if this is due to the decent line-doubler in my Sanyo XW15 (not really sure if it even has one) or because Bladerunner is an older movie. Have to wait until the SB Fifth Element/Desperado/CTHD arrive to give it a real test.
I also compared the prog/non prog modes for "F1 2000 Year in Review". I watched the last race of the 2001 season on my pj through cable TV and noticed significant jaggies on the track border-lines during fast panning. On the DVD, this is reduced in both prog modes. Again, I couldn't really tell a major difference.
Its a little annoying the bright green light on the RP56 burns in prog mode, but a small quibble.
Kurt
Here's the kicker - I didn't even figure out you have to push the button on the front to activate "Progressive" mode until I had the DVD player over a week! Pays to read the manual I guess, but its a complicated manual and I liek to figure things out for myself....
After flipping back and forth between prog and non prog, I had a very hard time noting the difference (rolling text at the beginning of Bladerunner for example looked practically identical - both had some rolling of the white text). I'm not sure if this is due to the decent line-doubler in my Sanyo XW15 (not really sure if it even has one) or because Bladerunner is an older movie. Have to wait until the SB Fifth Element/Desperado/CTHD arrive to give it a real test.
I also compared the prog/non prog modes for "F1 2000 Year in Review". I watched the last race of the 2001 season on my pj through cable TV and noticed significant jaggies on the track border-lines during fast panning. On the DVD, this is reduced in both prog modes. Again, I couldn't really tell a major difference.
Its a little annoying the bright green light on the RP56 burns in prog mode, but a small quibble.
Kurt
Not as annoying as not having that progressive button on your remote! It's a real pain having to do A/B tests by pressing the button with your big toe in order to get some distance from the TV.
Must try it in my pajamas though to see if I get the same improvement as you do
Must try it in my pajamas though to see if I get the same improvement as you do
Just got both of these and did an A/B comparison using 'Final Fantasy' DVD.
Component input with inexpensive cables and BNC adaptors.
There is a very noticeable difference between interlaced and progressive modes. Especially in scenes that are colder greys backgrounds, but also in colors. Interlaced seemed more washed out looking, whereas progressive had much richer punch look to it. More detail in blacks and greys, even skin tones appeared better to my eyes.
That's my 1.5 cents worth, Bruce
Component input with inexpensive cables and BNC adaptors.
There is a very noticeable difference between interlaced and progressive modes. Especially in scenes that are colder greys backgrounds, but also in colors. Interlaced seemed more washed out looking, whereas progressive had much richer punch look to it. More detail in blacks and greys, even skin tones appeared better to my eyes.
That's my 1.5 cents worth, Bruce
I'm in the camp that doesn't see much improvement with progressive scan. I am comparing my old Panasonic RV30 to my new RP56. Watching most DVDs, the improvement in definition is marginal. I see no difference in color, contrast or other picture or sound qualities. Maybe a difference would be noticeable in A/B switching, but if that's the only way to see it, it's not dramatic. Then there are certain tradeoffs. While scrolling credits seem sharper, subtitles display odd artifacts as they fade out--they fade out with horizontal lines showing. It looks like chroma bug but it may be a phenomenon relating to the fade. Also I see a fair bit of combing, worse than before. Maybe it's just that my Sony 34" has an excellent line doubler that works better than most. The Sony takes interlaced DVD signals and converts them to 960i, and they look very fine. Not HD but very fine.
The exception is The Fifth Element which in Superbit does look great in progressive scan. Also I have only had it for a few days and used it on 2-1/2 DVDs. But overall, I may be worse off.
The exception is The Fifth Element which in Superbit does look great in progressive scan. Also I have only had it for a few days and used it on 2-1/2 DVDs. But overall, I may be worse off.
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This just goes to prove that despite all the chatter about chroma bug this and frequency response that, half of the folks can't see any difference in PQ and the rest can't hear above 10000Hz due to rock concert hearing damage.
Which makes you wonder why we spend all this money on HT gear. Is it only for an elite few? Are most of us wasting money? Is the hobby more to do with accumulating what it said to be the best rather than what we actually see and hear for ourselves as the best?
I'm not really seriously looking for answers as I'm sure ppl who do spend a lot of time and energy into this, frequenting forums such as this etc., really do see and hear the benefits but, as you say, there are plenty for which it does not make a difference.
The RP56 had what was reputedly the best de-interlacer out there *and* was so darn cheap (relatively) that it was a no brainer for me to buy one. Previously I thought about the RP91. If I was spending over $500 or $600 then I would be researching in excrutiating detail to get the best of all worlds (and I would be stuck in fear so not buy anything which seems to be happening to some ppl) but at $200 I was prepared for some compromises which made the decision so easy.
I have not regretted the decision.
I'm not really seriously looking for answers as I'm sure ppl who do spend a lot of time and energy into this, frequenting forums such as this etc., really do see and hear the benefits but, as you say, there are plenty for which it does not make a difference.
The RP56 had what was reputedly the best de-interlacer out there *and* was so darn cheap (relatively) that it was a no brainer for me to buy one. Previously I thought about the RP91. If I was spending over $500 or $600 then I would be researching in excrutiating detail to get the best of all worlds (and I would be stuck in fear so not buy anything which seems to be happening to some ppl) but at $200 I was prepared for some compromises which made the decision so easy.
I have not regretted the decision.
It took me a few DVD's to find the improvement, but I too was able to see the benefit of PS over interlaced. After finding a particular 3-4 minute scene of Crouching Tiger and viewing it about a dozen times, I convinced myself it was a worthy upgrade, then relaxed knowing I've given myself the opportunity to watch a video signal as best as I can get it.
It helps me watch the movie, not the screen.
It helps me watch the movie, not the screen.
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