[Hayrab]

Sorry for this rant, but after reading this forum for a few months I've noticed alot of scare tactics used against RPTVs concerning burn-in. Am I the only person on the planet who has never seen burn in on a RPTV other than at retail stores who keep loops running 24/7/365.


I've had 2 mitsubishi standard 4:3 RPTVs and a Hitachi 16:9 RPTV over the past 10 years. On the first two sets I did absolutely 0 setup, played video games, movies (with black bars no less!), and many other things that people here say will burn in your screen, for hours on end and paused game screens for hours also.


Either Im really lucky, or burn in is a non issue for about 90% of consumers and about 100% of knowledgeable avs users. Does anyone have any proof of burn-in or how long it takes with what types of images/static bugs etc... I noticed in the AV Gaming forum that people were posting about games burning in your screen in less than 15 minutes! This is absolute crap, and can't believe such information isn't disposed of on a forum like this. I believe some sort of evidence is in order if people are just going to throw around burn-in issues like RPTVs are the devil for anyone wishing to play games.

 

[bw03]

do a search, some people have had a burn in problem with their crt rptv.

 

[Randi]

To tell you the truth, I was happy with my new Toshiba RPTV until I started reading the comments in this forum. Now I'm somewhat paranoid that I'm going to burn my set. I picked up a Comcast HD box four days ago, and now I notice that I'm hesitant to change the channel (I'm normally a real channel surfer). That bright red TV Guide logo pops up every time the channel's changed, and I find myself worrying about it.


Heyrab: I like your attitude. I hope you're right.

 

[bw03]

quick search gave me these..... i'm sure there's more.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=burnin

 

[rogo]

Buy Avia or VE... Calibrate brightness and contrast... Don't watch any kind of bars or logs for more than 20% of your total viewing time. (In other words, CNBC for 20% is OK... Sidebars for 20% is OK.... Bottom/top bars for 20% is OK... Gaming is OK too)


And then stop worrying about the greatest urban myth since the alligator in the sewer.


Is burn in possible? Yes. On a calibrated set is it remotely likely? No!


Mark

 

[intangibles]

I am about to purchase an RPTV. Like every other person in this situation, I wonder how much effort I should go to to avoid burn-in. I am not in the *least bit* concerned with burn-in caused by news logos or even games (I AM a gamer), but I do watch a fair bit of television. My wife and daughter do, too. My TV is on about 6 hours, in total, each day.


There's NO WAY I'm watching 4:3 TV stretched to widescreen. No way. Obviously, using a 'zoom' mode is completely out of the question, too. So, I AM worried about those vertical black bars that will be displayed for 95% of the time my TV will be on.


I've all but decided to get a DLP for that reason alone. Unless someone can convince me that black-bar burn-in is a non-issue and a myth.

 

[Marc Alexander]

Quote:

Originally posted by intangibles There's NO WAY I'm watching 4:3 TV stretched to widescreen. No way. Obviously, using a 'zoom' mode is completely out of the question, too. So, I AM worried about those vertical black bars that will be displayed for 95% of the time my TV will be on. I've all but decided to get a DLP for that reason alone. Unless someone can convince me that black-bar burn-in is a non-issue and a myth.

DLP or LCD is the only way to go for you

 

[Marc Alexander]

Quote:

Originally posted by Randi That bright red TV Guide logo pops up every time the channel's changed, and I find myself worrying about it.

That is bad bad bad...I would demand they give you different box if there is no way to turn off that logo.

 

[frenchmarky]

>>>There's NO WAY I'm watching 4:3 TV stretched to widescreen. No way. Obviously, using a 'zoom' mode is completely out of the question, too. So, I AM worried about those vertical black bars that will be displayed for 95% of the time my TV will be on.


I've all but decided to get a DLP for that reason alone. Unless someone can convince me that black-bar burn-in is a non-issue and a myth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DLP or LCD is the only way to go for you>>>



I'd argue that if you are watching 95% 4:3 SD, buying a 16:9 is a total waste in the first place. If that had been my situation I would have just bought a large 4:3 set. Heck it wouldn't even need to be HDTV capable, if it's going to be 95% SD anyway? I would have just got a Hitachi 4:3 projection, or a 36 or 40 inch Sony direct view. I certainly would not go to the more expensive LCD or DLP 16:9 either, even a bigger waste of money if you are just looking at SD with black bars all the time, whether they burn in or not. Other factors for burn-in are size of screen compared to size of the tubes (i.e. is set going easy on the tubes on a small screen vs. same tubes being overworked on a much larger screen), the brand of tv, etc....Frenchy

 

[intangibles]

Yes, I appreciate that argument. I guess I'm trying to have a little foresight here. If I could snap my fingers and have all my favorite TV channels be HD I would, but it's going to take some time.


In the meantime I want a GREAT HT experience (perhaps then my 95% figure will shrink considerably) and I want to try my hand at a little couch computing a la HTPC.


Another consideration is that I have room for a table-top set only. Those big screen cabinets won't fit in my space. Nor do I want such a massive TV.


I may wait a little longer, but not so long that SD is a distant memory.

 

[mrmike]

I have (After about 7 years) substantial burn in on the closed captioning line area of my RPTV (I need to build an LED CC decoder to hang below my front projector 'cause no way I'm using CC on that). It does happen. It's only really visible on bright even pictures like snowfields or sky shots but it's there. I'll snap some pics tonight if I think of it.


-MM

 

[Marc Alexander]

Quote:

Originally posted by frenchmarky I'd argue that if you are watching 95% 4:3 SD, buying a 16:9 is a total waste in the first place.

16x9 is the future...so it really wouldn't be wise to purchase a new 4x3 set even if that's all you watch right now. I completely agree with his logic...future thinking.

 

[rogo]

So, the DLP is a fine choice and I've got few qualms about recommending it -- if you go to a store and decide the annoyances are tolerable to you.


But, non-linear stretching proves itself to be acceptable to 95% of people after 1-2 weeks. (Less stretch in middle, more on edges).


And, quite frankly, I prefer it 90% of the time to having the vertical bars, which look very odd on the Samsung (and most other TVs without a jet-black bezel).


Mark

 

[jfischer]

Quote:

Originally posted by intangibles There's NO WAY I'm watching 4:3 TV stretched to widescreen. No way. Obviously, using a 'zoom' mode is completely out of the question, too. So, I AM worried about those vertical black bars that will be displayed for 95% of the time my TV will be on.

If you're dead-set against stretching 4:3 to fit the 16:9 screen, then DLP or LCD is your only alternative. You *will* burn in the sidebars on a CRT set from all the 95% 4:3 material if you don't stretch it - it's just a matter of time.

 

[frenchmarky]

>>16x9 is the future...so it really wouldn't be wise to purchase a new 4x3 set even if that's all you watch right now. I completely agree with his logic...future thinking.>>


Right now I only have antenna. So I basically come home at night, watch a few network shows most of which are HD, maybe the news, maybe the Tonight show and hit the sack. So yes for me a 4:3 already doesn't make sense, let alone for the future. I'm already watching maybe 30-40% HD now. So I got 16:9.

Just sounded like if this guy's 95% number sounds pretty low considering how much HD stuff is on in primetime now and on Dish/cable HD channels. For me to get that high a number I'd have to practically avoid watching HD, avoid network shows, not buy any dish HD channels etc.

I.e. if what I was watching NOW was only 5% HD I again would have got a 4:3, by the time my number got high enough to justify a 16:9, it would be worn out and time to by a new 16:9 anyway. So maybe his 95% was a high estimate on his part?....Frenchy

 

[intangibles]

I arrived at that number by comparing TV & gaming time to DVD-watching time. I didn't consider HD channels since I don't even have an HD source right now. So yeah, that number would drop once I have access to HD channels. But I have no idea how much because I'm not sure how much of my favorite programming will be available in HD.


My plan is to switch to DirecTV for an HD source. I'm considering waiting for the HD Tivo unit to be released, but it keeps getting pushed back. I don't know how long I can continue to wait! I had DISH before (when I lived in an apt.) and hated it.


In any case, I *want* to hear arguments for & against so I can feel informed when I finally make the big purchase. So thanks.

 

[Hayrab]

If you are not willing to use non-linear stretching of 4:3 then yes I could see burn in being a problem since there would be black bars of unused space 95% of the time the TV is on.


Buying a large 4:3 non HDTV set these days is extremely inexpensive. If you're THAT concerned about 4:3 material then I would go this route and save up for the 16:9 switch on a nice HDTV set. This way when you upgrade, you're getting the newest technology that you are ready for and you have a extra 4:3 to sell or put in another room.


Myself personally I watch 40% DVD (99% 16x9 anamorphic), 40% HTPC 540p or 1080i, 20% HDTV. I've gotten to the point that normal TV is so disgusting looking compared to HDTV that I hardly ever watch it (FOX being the exception). 4:3 is not going away anytime soon, I wouldn't be forward thinking with a TV you might well replace by the time you are ready to move to 16:9 anyway.

 

[Randi]

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc Alexander That is bad bad bad...I would demand they give you different box if there is no way to turn off that logo.

The box (a Moto 5100) came with no instructions, so I downloaded a bunch of stuff off the Comcast website. One of the setup sheets says that the channel pop-up can be turned off, but I can't find that particular option on my box. The set-up screen I see is very close in appearance to the illustration in the instructions I down-loaded, but not the same. I did reduce the default hang time to 3 seconds, which is the minimum it would allow.


This is the only HD box that Comcast has as far as I know. So I think I'm stuck with this situation. I may switch to DirecTV when their HD Tivo becomes available. From what I understand, though, the Tivo box has a similar channel pop-up display. I believe there was a thread in this topic concerned with Tivo logo burn-in.


I guess that I should get used to being careful. I had it in my head when I bough this set that burn-in was a thing of the past. I know it used to be a big concern with CRT sets when Atari computers and Pong games were popular. Since then there have been vast improvement in the technology reducing the burn-in issue where CRT's are concerned. I've come to the realization that the CRT projectors in RPTV's probably have to be run very bright to produce a decently lit picture. At least, much brighter than would be necessary for a direct view CRT TV.


RPTV's are probably better than they used to be, but not yet perfect.

 

[Hayrab]

Randi, I have the same motorola box. Once I change to a channel the menu guide goes away, if I am just browsing through channels the menu will not go away unless I hit the exit button. Im not sure why yours doesn't go away you might want to see if you have a defective box.

 

[xortam]

A friend has two family members with new Mits RPTVs that both now show some amount of burn-in. Their burn-in is from the network logos in the bottom right of the screen. Apparently they mostly watch a specific channel. I don't know how well these sets have been calibrated. I'm a bit concerned about this but I'm more of a channel surfer. The longest I would be on a single channel is the length of one movie/special.