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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been told that I should consider FP for my basement since my Pioneer Elite 530 will not fit through the bilco doors of a home I am purchasing. The home theater area is in the basement of this ranch style home so lighting control will not be a problem. However, the ceilings are low and we will be using this space as an exercise room as well. My wife and I frequently exercise with DVD routines early in the morning.


Room Dimensions: 15x15 with possiblility for extending it out one way to be 15x20. There is a load bearing post every 12 feet to further complicate things. I do plan on replacing the existing ceiling as part of my reconstruction of the basement.


Here are my questions:


1. Is there a way that an FP unit could be installed so that it wont be in the way since the ceilings are so low? I was thinking that perhaps part of the projector could fit between the ceiling joists.


2. With my wife and I genuflecting in front of the screen doing work-outs, how can we avoid shadowing assuming that the projector would be behind us?


3. Of course the biggie, I am assuming that I will only be able to afford a used or B-stock projector, I can only spend up to $6000 on this unit and must have HDTV. Any thoughts on my options here? I am new to FP units so I have to learn a whole new home theater solution if I choose to go this way.


Thanks for any/all opinions.


4.
 

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David, just how tall are your ceilings in the basement? And do you know how far apart the joists are spaced? I guess if you are on 2ft centers you might be able to fit the base of a projector in between them but if your on 16in centers I would plan on the projector not fitting. With a $6000 budget you could get a very nice setup with a great CRT. With CRTs though your screen size determines the distance your projector will be from the screen. In most cases, 1.5-1.6 times the screen width would be the correct placement for the projector and a lot of people like to view the screen from closer to 2 times the screen width. So you may actually have the projector in front of you. FYI the 1.5-1.6 times the screen width is pretty well set in stone because there is no zoom on a CRT.


hope this helps


Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Andy,


Thanks for your thoughts. I believe the joists are 16inches apart.


I am surprised that you think I can obtain a very nice set-up for $6000 since I see very expensive projector pricing out there, especially since I need a High Definition quality display. I feel like a home theater newbie again simply because I do not know enough about FP units.


I will do some searching throughout this forum and on the net, in the meantime, do you (or anyone) recommend any particular place to start?




Thanks,
 

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Here is a list of some of the projectors Curt Palme had for sale in his last email. They range from about 2400 to 3500 and these are all really nice units. His prices are higher than if you bought from any ole joe on the street but he stands behind his stuff. You can't got wrong with him.


Runco DTV 852. I have two of these in stock as in the eBay ad ready to go. Great little projectors based on the Zenith PRO 900x. 850 lumens, 50 Khz scan rate, a built in line doubler that does away with all of the cables and hassle associated with an external processor. Plug a video or S-video source directly in to the projector, and it takes care of everything else. A slimline case, original ceiling mount and remote included. RGB inputs for HDTV or computer/scalar inputs. 1997-1998 vintage, new tubes installed in both sets. Digital convergence, on screen menus. Very quiet operation, and reliable!

On eBay here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3021394648


A price drop to $2500.00. Runco sold these for $15K in 1998...


3- Marquee 8500 . This is a top of the line 8" EM focus projector. 135 Khz scan rate, 120 Mhz video bandwidth. 1200 lumens from MEC tubes. Digital convergence, on screen menus, RGB, video and S-video inputs. The anamorphic squeeze modification has been done, and the power supply has been upgraded to prevent premature tube burnout as was common on some of these models. These sets range in hour count from 4000 to about 8000. All have some 4:3 G and B wear, but not enough to warrant tube replacement at this time. I have listed one on eBay here, but will sell the others at the same $2400.00 opening price. As you can see by the eBay pictures, the image is still excellent. Or of course I can retube now so you'll get the full 10K hours out of the tubes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3020658478


$2400.00 as is

$3800.00 retubed.



1- Barco 1609. A true 9" EM focus liquid coupled projector. This projector is in good shape, with a bit of 4:3 green tube wear. Again, no need to retube now, the set throws an excellent image as seen in the eBay ads. 64 Khz scan rate make it great for HDTV, line doublers and quadruplers, etc. Video, S-video and RGB inputs, on screen menus, digital convergence, wireless remote included. 1650 bright lumens.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3021296020


$2800.00


Once you have the projector, you can use either a HDTV tuner or you can go with the HTPC and get a tuner for that. AVS has an HTPC with the option of a HDTV tuner in it and I think it even has the remote. I believe it's 1000 without the tuner and tuners ar about $400. So you have $3000 for the projector, $1400 for the HTPC (DVD, HDTV, Games, Internet) and that leaves you with $1600 for the screen which, if you do a DIY screen, is way more than enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for linking me with Curt Palme. He is going to send me his projector primer so I can not ask the million questions I have of this forum.


It seems that the one thing I need to consider with a CRT projector is size. I was thinking all along that ceiling mount was the way to go but it seems that most CRT purchasers sit them on the floor. This may not work for me because I have small children and also plan on using the home theater for exercise as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dmk005
it seems that most CRT purchasers sit them on the floor
Not exactly. We sit them on the floor until we can figure out where and how to mount them on the ceiling....then they stay there for a long time. In my opinion....leaving a CRT on the floor permanently is a lousy idea.


Good luck!
 

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This may or may not help, depending on your situation, but RPTV sets can be disassembled. The resulting pieces may still be too large for your door, but you can take them apart. The bulk of the unit is just a big, empty box.


Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Charlie,


I am actually interested in your thoughts here. My Pioneer Elite is not typical, however. It's case is not plastic but wood. I may contact Pioneer to see if they recommend any procedures as you suggested.


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dmk005
Room Dimensions: 15x15 with possiblility for extending it out one way to be 15x20. There is a load bearing post every 12 feet to further complicate things. I do plan on replacing the existing ceiling as part of my reconstruction of the basement.
Hmm. If you can extend the room 5 feet as you indicate, would this mean you have space on the other side of a wall? If so, you might consider a rear-screen setup with a projector. You'd have to do some sort of mirror bounce with only 5' to play with, but I think with a $6k budget you could get it done. Such setups in my opinion, done right, generally have advantages over front projection.


Marvin
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I could actually bumb the wall up to 11 feet one direction.


I have not heard much about rear projectors. Can any front projector also be used for rear projection? Now I am really showing that I am new to projectors.


Do you really think the quality of rear projection is at par with front?


thanks
 

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I just bought my projector...and know nothing in comparison to the people currently giving you info.


But I noticed you emphasize the exercise use of the room and you watching DVD routines, do you plan on working out in the dark? The rear projection thing might solve this, I don't know just thought I'd ask.
 

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My 2 cts:


Considering the constraints, i would consider a (gasp :eek:) LCD / DLP or something like that. Why? Because


1 - A CRT is BIG and heavy, and one of those hanging from the ceiling is definitely going to be a big volumnous box in your way when exercising. A 'bulb' projector is much smaller. It'll still dangle low from the ceiling like a CRT, but at least it's footprint is much smaller so that you stand a better chance of having enough room left around it to do your exercising.


2 - Brightness. Like threeclaws observed: are you going to do your exercises in the dark? Because if you go with CRT, don't count on being able to have relatively bright lights on and still see a decent picture. At least with a bulb projector you'll get a much brighter picture that'll look acceptable with the lights on. So unless you plan to exercise in the dark / near-dark, i would recommend against CRT for that.


Rear projection might be a good way to go to address the space issue. And disassembling / reassembling your RPTV sounds like a good option as well. I've heard from others who did the same. Just an Elite may be harder to take apart because of its nice finish that you don't want to mess up etc.


Good luck!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dmk005
I could actually bumb the wall up to 11 feet one direction.


I have not heard much about rear projectors. Can any front projector also be used for rear projection? Now I am really showing that I am new to projectors.


Do you really think the quality of rear projection is at par with front?


thanks
David, I'm not aware of any CRT projectors which cannot be used rear screen. In my opinion, rear screen, done well, is almost always superior to front projection (IMHO). It gets the projector and its noise out of sight. It eliminates, as in your case, worrying about shadows from people getting between the screen and projector. Generally speaking, better resistance to ambient light. Generally brighter - transmissive versus reflective. Neater aesthetically, etc.

The biggest downsides to RP are space required - and that can be minimized by using your RP room for other things, or mirror setup if space is restricted, and the initial cost or RP. It simply costs more to set up rear screen. The main difference in cost will be the screen material itself and the cost of framing it into a wall.

Think of it as building your own Pioneer Elite, only with a much bigger screen with a better picture. If I had a way to do rear screen in my house, I'd seriously consider it.

Do a search here and you'll find several other threads on using a projector for rear screen. Try the CRT, Digitals and Screen Forums. Sounds like you could have a situation very amenable to rear screen. Good luck.

Marvin
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Gertjan,


I agree with you. My best solutions seem to be rear projector or something like expanding my bilco door or disassembling my Elite may be the ticket.


As I learn about projectors it gets very expensive as you add the screen ($1000), mirror (?). I may be out of my league in the CRT and high end DLP market. The DWIN TV3 DLP looks great but way too much $ on my current post dot com boom income.


I know this is the CRT forum so I wont ask any particular questions about other DLPs out there.


Thanks,
 

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David, I have not seen many RP setups but in the few I have seen (possibly because of poor screen material) the picture is only good from right in front of the center of the screen, and when you get to a bigger picture the corners start to get dim. FP does not have as much of a problem with this. I know that when you get off axis with an RPTV you can not see it well at all so this may be something to consider. Others here may be able to comment on this better than I.


Andy
 

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David, do yourself a favor (I Hope) before you start disassembling that Pioneer Elite. Go downstairs to your "home theatre" room. On the wall you would project on, front or rear screen, mark off a rectangle that is 46"w x 26"h. That should roughly equal your Pioneer 530. Now around that rectangle, mark off another that is 80"w x 45"h. That should be a doable screen size for your 11 foot depth if you went rear screen.


Now, the 46x26=53" diagonal and 1196 square inches. The 80x45=92" diagonal or 3600 square inches. THREE times the screen size. Now that screen size is easily doable with an 8" CRT projector like the Electrohome 8500 series. The Ehome has almost 3 x the published brightness of the Pioneer: 1200 peak lumens versus 450 peak lumens, so it should be effectively as bright and with as good or better picture quality.


As an example, Ehome 8500s can be found in very good condition for as little as $2000 or reconditioned with new tubes for around $4500. And in a light controlled room like you have, you could even go larger screen. The Pioneer Elites are neat and I wouldn't mind owning one, but if I had your room and your $6000 budget, I'd be going BIG!


Marvin
 

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Andy, you're right about one thing. It depends on the screen material. There are many variations on screen materials, both front and rear which contribute to viewing angle. Some types, front and rear, do limit the viewing angle, etc. I know there are a bunch of threads in here, especially in the screens forum. There's also lots of info available on the screen manufacturers sites. Dalite, Draper, Stewart, etc. There are some lesser known (to me anyway) discussed in those threads with links to sites etc.

I know what you mean about bad viewing angles, center to corner britghtness, etc. Its just not the big problem it was years ago. Screen technology has come a long way too.

In short and repeating myself here, if I had a room suitable to do rear screen and the budget, I would have no reservations about going that direction.


Marvin
 

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I forgot too say, $6k seems like it would be almost triple what a high quality projector seems to be going, from when I was looking there seems to be 4 price ranges $0-900/$1200-3500/$5000-10000/$Bill Gates Expensive :)


I think (and this is only from reading no first hand experience) that if you want to watch HDTV if you can get a CRT that can do 720p you should be fine. I'm pretty sure the Marquee series would be good, it seems like the Electrohomes are the best bang for buck, just my opinion though.


The best reccommendation someone gave me (I couldn't take the advice) was to find someone who can show you their projector. Being in NJ you should be able to find a number of people who can help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If I choose to go rear projection CRT or DLP, will it require the purchase of a special mirror and screen? I heard that both would be needed. I read mixed views on the mirror issue. Could it be that some projectors have built-in mirrors and others dont?


I've decided to not try to disassemble my Pioneer Elite to fit it in the bilco door. The outside piano finished case is just too pretty and seems to be assembled with quite a lot of finish work and even looks like one piece to me.


I am leaning towards rear projection CRT or DLP now. How much space would be needed behind the screen for a 92" diagonal screen?
 
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