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Ruby 1080 @ 48hz?

2516 Views 27 Replies 14 Participants Last post by MickeyDora, Apr 19, 2007

Gizmogadget

Discussion Starter · Oct 7, 2006

I went through a ton of messages, but couldn't find the answer. Will the Ruby accept a 48hz signal from on outboard processor? I'm asuming 48hz is used to eliminate the film "judder" that we see on video displays. What if the processor output at 24hz? Would that eliminate the judder as well?

What processors are some people using on their Ruby's?

Cheers

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

darinp2

· #2 · Oct 7, 2006

Yes, it will take 1080p48. I don't believe 1080p24 works with it. The DVDO VP50 is a very nice unit that works well with the Ruby. Some are using Lumagens also.

--Darin

mark haflich

· #3 · Oct 7, 2006

Darin. It's science and art. Art is sometimes intuitive and it most often is how you make it work especially when you don't know or understand the science.

Gizmogadget

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 7, 2006

The reason I'm asking, is because there seems to be some hoopla surrounding the Pearl's ability to do 48hz. I though maybe it was unique to this projector.

I checked out the VP50 and the Lumagen products, but I couldn't find anything that specifically said they could output at 48hz. The Lumagen mentions something about vertical refresh of 48hz-120hz. Is this the same thing?

Cheers

AndyN

· #5 · Oct 7, 2006

Ruby only takes 48Hz on DVI as a PC input but not on HDMI. I believe it takes 1080p24 via component. 1080i deinterlaced from a VP50 is very very nice and at 48Hz for movies very smooth.

Gizmogadget

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 7, 2006

Thanks for the info Andy. If the Ruby only takes 48hz via DVI, how would you get that signal from the VP50 to the Ruby? I don't see any DVI outputs on the VP50, only HDMI. Would an HDMI-DVI adapter give the same results?

Bottom line is, i'm trying to get a 48hz signal into my Ruby from DVD/BR/HD-DVD, and I'm not sure what I should be looking at. I'm not into the HT PC stuff, so I'm looking at an outboard processor as a solution. These things aren't cheap, so I'm trying to dig up as much info as possible.

My apologies if this should be in another forum. I figured with all of the Ruby owners here, this would be the place to get answers.

usualsuspects

· #7 · Oct 7, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmogadget /forum/post/0

Would an HDMI-DVI adapter give the same results?

That will work fine. If you have a choice between a factory cable with DVI on one end and HDMI on the other, I would do that, but an adapter usually works ok. My I suggest monoprice.com for a pre-made cable with the correct connectors on each end. Best prices and very high quality.

AndyN

· #8 · Oct 7, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects /forum/post/0

That will work fine. If you have a choice between a factory cable with DVI on one end and HDMI on the other, I would do that, but an adapter usually works ok. My I suggest monoprice.com for a pre-made cable with the correct connectors on each end. Best prices and very high quality.

yup.. I also use a monoprice cable. I think $20 or so. No sparklies. Great cable and no adapters. Some (one very very smart member, wm) have noted that the dvi input is not as sharp as the HDMI input on the Ruby but I don't really notice it and prefer the lack of judder at 48Hz.

I've read good things about the scalers out there but I'm partial to DVDO. I'm not sure if the other companies have a money back offer but DVDO has a 30 day money back offer. You might want to check w/ AVS. For AVS prices and if they do the 30 day guarantee also then you can't loose.

mark haflich

· #9 · Oct 7, 2006

Andy! I hope you are not "loose" today. It can happen if you aren't careful as to what you eat or drink. We wouldn't want to "lose" you.

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Mark Petersen

· #10 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN /forum/post/0

Ruby only takes 48Hz on DVI as a PC input but not on HDMI. I believe it takes 1080p24 via component. 1080i deinterlaced from a VP50 is very very nice and at 48Hz for movies very smooth.

Andy, is the 1080i60->1080p48 capability you're referring to available in the launch of the VP50 or are you taking about the PReP feature in the VP50 which is going to be added in subsequent releases?

Getting projectors to support 1080p24 or 1080p48 is a great start in eliminating NTSC telecine motion artifacts, but the next step is getting sources to start supporting it. If I recall both 1080p24 and 1080p48 are both defined in both the HD-SDI and the HDMI 1.3 specs (which doesn't necessarily mean a manufacturerer will implement it even if they do add HD-SDI or HDMI 1.3). These formats are also problematic with a HTPC. A possible short term solution is the VP50 PReP feature which if it works as advertised will allow the processor to extract the original 24p content and then redisplay it at a desired frame rate (1:1 at 24hz or 1:2 at 48hz).

AndyN

· #11 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0

Andy, is the 1080i60->1080p48 capability you're referring to available in the launch of the VP50 or are you taking about the PReP feature in the VP50 which is going to be added in subsequent releases?

Getting projectors to support 1080p24 or 1080p48 is a great start in eliminating NTSC telecine motion artifacts, but the next step is getting sources to start supporting it. If I recall both 1080p24 and 1080p48 are both defined in both the HD-SDI and the HDMI 1.3 specs (which doesn't necessarily mean a manufacturerer will implement it even if they do add HD-SDI or HDMI 1.3). These formats are also problematic with a HTPC. A possible short term solution is the VP50 PReP feature which if it works as advertised will allow the processor to extract the original 24p content and then redisplay it at a desired frame rate (1:1 at 24hz or 1:2 at 48hz).

Mark P,

No, I was just referring to very good 1080i deinterlacing and outputting at the 48Hz framerate. This is a current feature. The past DVDO VP's all did the framerate conversion but did not do 1080i deinterlacing well. Now, imho, they do both. If only they can fix the audio problems and they'd have a virtually perfect VP.

I believe Prep is where the VP50 would take a 480p signal and reassemble the original interlaced image then do its own deinterlacing and scaling. I believe the thought behind this was to allow sources without 480i HDMI out to maintain as "pure" a digital signal as possible and let the VP50 do all the processing.

MarkH,

Guess I was already "loose". Got too excited. So when are you going to give us your impression of the Ruby vs. Pearl and the VP50. I know you have an opinion about the VP50's video deinterlacing. For the man with all the toys I'd love to hear what you think.

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Mark Petersen

· #12 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN /forum/post/0

Mark P,

No, I was just referring to very good 1080i deinterlacing and outputting at the 48Hz framerate. This is a current feature. The past DVDO VP's all did the framerate conversion but did not do 1080i deinterlacing well. Now, imho, they do both. If only they can fix the audio problems and they'd have a virtually perfect VP.

Interesting. I didn't realize that the VP50 will currently do 1080i60 (telecined film source) to 1080p48 conversion. Do you know exactly how it does it? Does it take 1080i60, deinterlace to 1080p60 extract the original 24p material and then show the result at 2-2 (one 24p film frame shown twice to get 48p)? If so, this is a very cool feature! Too bad my projector doesn't have a 48hz interface

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AndyN

· #13 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0

Interesting. I didn't realize that the VP50 will currently do 1080i60 (telecined film source) to 1080p48 conversion. Do you know exactly how it does it? Does it take 1080i60, deinterlace to 1080p60 extract the original 24p material and then show the result at 2-2 (one 24p film frame shown twice to get 48p)? If so, this is a very cool feature! Too bad my projector doesn't have a 48hz interface

Mark,

Unfortunately this is outside my realm of understanding. Perhaps, MarkH or one of folks at DVDO could explain.

Dale Adams

· #14 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0

Interesting. I didn't realize that the VP50 will currently do 1080i60 (telecined film source) to 1080p48 conversion. Do you know exactly how it does it? Does it take 1080i60, deinterlace to 1080p60 extract the original 24p material and then show the result at 2-2 (one 24p film frame shown twice to get 48p)? If so, this is a very cool feature! Too bad my projector doesn't have a 48hz interface

All the iScan scalers will output a 1080p48 signal at 2:2 for the interlaced input sources which they can deinterlace (excepting the 1080i field scaling of the iScan HD through VP30). The VP50 can perform inverse telecine on 1080i, so it can also convert a 1080i60 source using 3:2 pulldown to a 1080p48 output which has a 2:2 cadence. The 1080i input is deinterlaced to 1080p, and then the original 24 Hz frames are used as a basis to frame rate convert the signal to 48 Hz, showing each original frame twice.

Also note that the VP50 can perform cadence detection on a progressive source such as 720p or 480p. If such a source has a 3:2 cadence then it can be converted to a 48 Hz output with 2:2.

- Dale Adams

AndyN

· #15 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams /forum/post/0

All the iScan scalers will output a 1080p48 signal at 2:2 for the interlaced input sources which they can deinterlace (excepting the 1080i field scaling of the iScan HD through VP30). The VP50 can perform inverse telecine on 1080i, so it can also convert a 1080i60 source using 3:2 pulldown to a 1080p48 output which has a 2:2 cadence. The 1080i input is deinterlaced to 1080p, and then the original 24 Hz frames are used as a basis to frame rate convert the signal to 48 Hz, showing each original frame twice.

Also note that the VP50 can perform cadence detection on a progressive source such as 720p or 480p. If such a source has a 3:2 cadence then it can be converted to a 48 Hz output with 2:2.

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale.

Mark Petersen

· #16 · Oct 8, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams /forum/post/0

All the iScan scalers will output a 1080p48 signal at 2:2 for the interlaced input sources which they can deinterlace (excepting the 1080i field scaling of the iScan HD through VP30). The VP50 can perform inverse telecine on 1080i, so it can also convert a 1080i60 source using 3:2 pulldown to a 1080p48 output which has a 2:2 cadence. The 1080i input is deinterlaced to 1080p, and then the original 24 Hz frames are used as a basis to frame rate convert the signal to 48 Hz, showing each original frame twice.

Also note that the VP50 can perform cadence detection on a progressive source such as 720p or 480p. If such a source has a 3:2 cadence then it can be converted to a 48 Hz output with 2:2.

- Dale Adams

Impressive! I thought that people would have to wait for HDMI 1.3 or HD-SDI in order to remove ntsc telecine judder, but a person with a 48hz capable projector can use the VP50 and 1080i60hz sources such as an HD-DVD player and remove ntsc judder today. Very slick!

Fwiw, I've been using a VP50 for about two weeks now and I had no idea it had this capability (I don't have a 48hz capable projector though). I can also confirm Andy's comments about the great SD and HD deinterlacing and scaling capabilities of the VP50. I've done preliminary testing with it against a Realta HQV solution and it seems on par with the HQV but the VP50 has more features and is surprisingly bug free with the exception of some audio issues which apparently are being addressed as a top priority.

True 1080i60->1080p48 conversion coupled with per-pixel MAD and good scaling in the VP50 should make this the scaler of choice for pretty much any projector but in particular the Ruby, the JVC HD10K or any other 48hz capable projectors. Congratulations to DVDO for such a sucessful product launch.

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MarcusInMD

· #17 · Oct 8, 2006

What about HDCP (or lack there of) on the Ruby's DVI port?

rabident

· #18 · Oct 9, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams /forum/post/0

Also note that the VP50 can perform cadence detection on a progressive source such as 720p or 480p. If such a source has a 3:2 cadence then it can be converted to a 48 Hz output with 2:2.

- Dale Adams

What about 1080p24? Can it frame rate convert that to 1080p48? Seems silly, I know, but it would be useful for devices that only support 48hz and not 24hz input.

I suppose you could run 1080i60 into it and get the same results, but 1080p24 to 1080p48 framerate conversion seems a lot simpler with less room for error.

steppen

· #19 · Oct 10, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident /forum/post/0

What about 1080p24? Can it frame rate convert that to 1080p48? Seems silly, I know, but it would be useful for devices that only support 48hz and not 24hz input.

I suppose you could run 1080i60 into it and get the same results, but 1080p24 to 1080p48 framerate conversion seems a lot simpler with less room for error.

I have the same issue. I am looking for a VP to do vertical scaling for my 2.35:1 setup, but I am trying to find one with a 1080/24p input on HDMI, as this will be avaialble as an output on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players due in Europe in the next month or two.

From the DVDO website, the input specification is:

4 HDMI (RGB or YCbCr) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-50/60, [email protected]

so according to DVDO, there is no 1080p/24 input. Can anyone with a VP50 shed any light on this?. Is it really impossible or have they just not mentioned it (faint chance)?

PJG

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Axel

· #20 · Feb 20, 2007

I found this old thread when I searched for an answer to why the image looks noticeable softer at 48Hz than at 60Hz.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Is this caused by the VP50 or the Ruby?

Here is my setup:

- Ruby

- VP50 (firmware 1.01 beta)

- Toshiba A1

- HDMI from Tosh to VP50; DVI into the Ruby

Thanks!

______

Axel

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