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Nivika,


Keep in mind that almost no one has yet seen the SXRD with DVDs as a source and even the few that have have not yet seen it using the projectors built in scaling/de-interlacing. And NO ONE AT ANY TIME has seen it on a firehawk.


While the black levels and contrast have been criticised by some they are fine for me, and better than the $90k Runco 3 chip DLP that I am familiar with. My feeling is that even the latest HD2 DLPs benefit from a Firehawk and comparing what we have seen with DLP on a Firehawk to SXRD on a white screen isn't a good comparison. My guess is that the SXRD and a Firehawk would be a combination that could take on all competition. But that's just a guess until we actually see one in a real world setup, and I haven't yet seen any projector with the newest HD2+ device.


If it were my decision and I had no projector yet I'd buy a $6k HD2 DLP for now and wait until the SXRD and some of the other potentially killer solutions are known with greater certainty. It might be in the next 3 months but some exciting things are in the wings if you can play in the $15 - $30k range.
 

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Carl has spoken some true words... great advice. I'm wondering if this "whats best talk" can reasonably be settled unless you can get into someones home who has the guts to buy without seeing them. I've done this with several 9" CRTs including stacks and a few digital set ups. I take a bag of known DVDs. IMO this is the only way to know but wow.......this is real tough to arrange and even then takes a lot of time and money to travel.


The SXRD at CEDIA looked real good but the demo was very very short and was trailers of action films so the frenetic pace made evaluation real real tough. It did have enough light to handle a 160" screen. It was strange but the color reproduction from the Marantz VP10 three chip DLP I saw was much more appealing. The trouble was, the type of material selected may have accounted for this.


Art
 

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Having worked previously at Sony, I know they script their demos meticulously, leaving absolutely nothing to chance. I'm sure they made the SXRD look as good as it could.


I'm not a big fan of "wait and see", because there will always always always be a reason to wait. Normally I wouldn't even post to this thread, but the choices here are between a state of the art LCOS and the most expensive single chip DLP. Note that I didn't say state of the art DLP, because the new offerings at CEDIA are state of the art, but not necessarliy the most expensive. Not just ours either (for those of you who think I'm just hawking our new VP-12S3 (knew I had to get that in somewhere didn't ya?)), but you should really see the new HD2+ sets. Unless you are sitting very close to your screen (less than 1.5 x width), they can acheive very close to CRT level performance.


Now it gets even more confusing.


:)


DM
 

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I would personally consider any 30 (or 90 :eek: )k USD purchase on a 1st gen digital product to be money spent very foolishly...


Even if I had an blank checkbook it would still be to take a proven product now (HD2+ or SX21 if you mean right now) enjoy it knowing its not the best money can buy... Upgrade the projector in 18 - 24 months buying the same products you are now considering or thier v2 versions at price levels that are less bleeding edge... Spend the change on a sailboat or wine women and song...


I realize some people really do live with a blank checkbook (but in reality I dont seem to meet them) but if there is ANY real world cost implications the pace of development up there makes me think it is sucker money that could be spent much better elsewhere.
 

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Phat - I live about ten minutes away from Microsoft headquarters..... For the past few years lots of people in the area were paying incredible sums of money for stuff they didn't need, or even know much about. Why? - because they could. Here we don't call it "sucker money", we call it "stupid money". Reed.
 

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Reed, Sure I understand it happens... It just wont happen with my money (or money I advise on expenditure) even though it could be afforded.


For me I unfortunately always put a fiscal value on things... if I can get 99% of the enjoyment from something at 30% of the price I would always rather spend the rest on another 99% enjoyment project... I dont see that as depriving myself at all.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
if I can get 99% of the enjoyment from something at 30% of the price I would always rather spend the rest on another 99% enjoyment project... I dont see that as depriving myself at all.
The reality of the situation is that the SX-21 ain't even close to 99% of the SXRD performance. The SXRD is a MAJOR step up. Whether this step up is worth twice as much will differ from person to person; depending whether they already have their boats, cars, women and wine or not.


With the outstanding performance of the $6 to $8k projectors now announced no $20k unit will ever be the bang for the buck champ. But many are looking for more. Just look at all the $20 to $30k amplifiers that have been announced in the past year or so.


I get jealous as hell when I look at all the $1M sport fishing boats being sold. But never once have I ever thought of it as a stupid purchase. Just one I will forever have to drool over while I tool along in my little Chris Craft.
 

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Agreed but if you buy a 1M sport fishing boat (say 12 months old) and resell it 2 years down the line you get a far better return... Projectors are like PC's to me, I never get to sell them for anything much and the speed of digital advances means that will probably hold true.


The difference between this years Swan 60 yacht (or 1M sport fishing boat) and last years is what ??? The resale value is similar... Thats kind of my point.


Also I do not consider the SX21 or a HD2+ to be 99% of the performance... But for me I do consider them 99% of the enjoyment... there is a bit of a difference... Simply having a HT setup at all makes the most impact then there are items like speakers and audio that depreciate a lot less than the video side of the equation... I realize I did not help with the actual question but (again) for me I would rather use the dollar difference on a boat / car / other toys that I would still own next year than see it depreciate at such a rate and leave me nothing... This rule applies even though I am lucky enough to have the money to burn without real concern.


I guess I am just a scooge :) !!!
 

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Dan Miller said: "Having worked previously at Sony..."


Dan, I think that your set up at the Expo was absolutely terrific, and it gives us a benchmark to look at. The Qualia will certainly sell well, but it seemed to me and "all of our friends" that it still had the Sony trademark Hue set of Orange-y Reds, and Goldish Yellows. Gamma is a hard thing to nail, and you've seemed to have done so at Marantz. Glad you didn't bring that Sony look to Marantz Video.


Kudos!!!! (And kind regards...it was great seeing you again!)
 

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Thanks Michael...


One of the things that I learned about big dollar business when I was there was: If it sells, don't fix it. I have a 13 year old, well over 10000 hr 53" Sony RPTV which I tore apart and rebuilt the day I got it home in 1990. It looked great then and still does now. I showed it one day to some Sony TV engineers and they were amazed at how good it looked. When I asked them why they couldn't do the same thing to their production models, one of them said, "Why should we? We will sell every one we build as it is." I learned their lesson, but I vowed at that moment to never let it become my philosophy. It's tough, because the number crunchers want things cheaper and cheaper; I want things to be better and better. Meeting towards the middle is ok, as long as it's on my side of the line.


:)


DM
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
Agreed but if you buy a 1M sport fishing boat (say 12 months old) and resell it 2 years down the line you get a far better return... Projectors are like PC's to me, I never get to sell them for anything much and the speed of digital advances means that will probably hold true.


The difference between this years Swan 60 yacht (or 1M sport fishing boat) and last years is what ??? The resale value is similar... Thats kind of my point.

Probably the best example of this is residential real estate. Million dollar+ homes are the best investments and easiest to resell of all. Even in a weak economy.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Probably the best example of this is residential real estate. Million dollar+ homes are the best investments and easiest to resell of all. Even in a weak economy.
Real estate appreciates in value, and can be heavily leveraged, which increases the ROI. Projectors depreciate in value, and are thus not investment grade.
 

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Only partially on topic, but there still seems to be a serious misunderstanding of what relatively low gain directional screens (also called gray) do and don’t do.


I was not there, but the Sony demonstration room for the SXRD surely had to be highly light controlled with dark surfaces. Using a Firehawk instead of the Studiotek 130 in this case would have been a serious mistake and degraded the image, especially for the viewers off axis. In any case, except for light output challenged projectors, and the SXRD is not one of these, the Grayhawk is a better choice if you have a bad room.
 

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And then only if you still have black level problems. We are back to using a StudioTek 130 because the absolute black level of the S3 is so low.
 

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in january there will be several 3dlps 1280x720 in the $25K range. also an alternative to consider. and ultimately in 2004, there will be 1920x1080 dlp for HT also... (ok, in the high price range $25K likely).


as for real estate, all good things have an end. but it's region by region, nation by nation. rates are rising, delinquencies are rising. and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac seem on a tight rope...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Probably the best example of this is residential real estate. Million dollar+ homes are the best investments and easiest to resell of all. Even in a weak economy.
Except that AV gear isn't an investment. It's money spent for entertainment.


Just like you should consider the money you spend on modifications to make your car go faster, you should consider the money spent on your projector or other AV gear as largly down the drain.


There is an old, old saying in cars that "speed costs. How fast can you afford to go?" Everyone has there personal speedometer.


If you are trying to minimize your depreciation loss just buy everything used. You can't beat it from a bang for the buck standpoint. Either for cars or projectors. The only exceptions to that rule is in computers where the maintenance costs of obsolete models is prohibitive or antiques where the cost of a good old item is MANY times higher than a comparable.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Miller
And then only if you still have black level problems. We are back to using a StudioTek 130 because the absolute black level of the S3 is so low.
Dan,


A sufficiently reflective room will still kill your black level, even in low APL scenes where it would be noticed (no ambient light, just light room surfaces). You should still recommend the GrayHawk for these rooms.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by odyssey
Dan,


A sufficiently reflective room will still kill your black level, even in low APL scenes where it would be noticed (no ambient light, just light room surfaces). You should still recommend the GrayHawk for these rooms.
And I do. When I said "we are using..." I meant in our demo room at CES/CEDIA, which is about as good as it gets. I don't recommend Fire / Gray specifically, but I always recommend that the user / installer choose according to conditions and mounting.


Dan
 
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