Don't mind him, he just tend's to be blunt sometimes..
honestly you need to seem them for yourself to make that call. see what you like in terms of picture quality. On name brand, i would think the NEC/Faroudja would look better than the runco, but I haven't seen either set-up in person.
Don't forget that Fujitsu has a 61 inch as well, and I would personally look into that as well..
it is well know that cinermax believes the fujitsu 61 inch to be the best, no question...
again, I personally haven't seen them in person yet.
Cclear, I love to see them in person but it is very hard to do so as almost none of the places in the Bay area that I know has these big units. I can try to go to Runco directly as it is located right across the bay from where I work. I don't know about the NEC or the Fujitsu.
Cineramax, have you have a chance to see the NEC with the Faroudja NRS? I know the internal scaler of the NEC is not very good but how would that combination compare to the Fujitsu?
Most likely the NRS and Nec will look better than the other unit, still, everyting else on the market is going to be a plasma with a scaler.
The Fuj. 61" does some things electonically between the panel and the internal processor to expand the brightness while doubling the life of the panel to 30,000 hours.
Stay tuned to the 61 thread, I will explain the Fujitsu miracle , within a day or two.
Actually techguy's idea of pairing a Faroudja Cinema Source DVI feeding the Fujitsu in order to be the ultimate 61" theater is beginning to appeal to me.The Faroudaja will have a better chroma decoder, deinterlacer, and scaler, the bandwith will be full throttle coming in DVI.
Having the Faroudja doing it's stuff while pairing it digitally to the AVM (exclusively inside the fujitsu) doing the Subfield processing/discharge control/address mapping of the glass itself. in order to create an image that is closer to a Direct View CRT than a grey chalckboard , which is what the nec looks like.
We are going to check this combination out as soon as possible.
Hope someone has a DVI switcher in the works. Cinema Source, Zenith STB,and pc.
There are at least two places in the Bay Area that have the Fujitsu 61". The Good Guys in San Mateo on El Camino, and Magnolia Hi-Fi in Palo Alto on University Avenue. There is also another Magnolia that probably has it which is I think in Mountain View (very close to you). Make sure you tell them to let you look at it with HD, SD and DVD sources. The Good Guys uses DTV DSS I believe and I think the Magnolia uses OTA for its Hi-Def and also DTV DSS.
The Fujitsu uses NEC glass as well, but has completely different electronics, which are what Peter is referring to, and they do make a difference from my observation. I think Fujitsu did much more to the innards of the plasma than Runco did, so I would stick with comparing the NEC/NRS combo vs. the Fuji 61. Just my $0.02.
I can tell all of you this, I installed a 61 NEC at my friends house over the weekend and had a chance to watch about 10 hours on it. The Tyson fight, some pay per views and the Laker game later tonight. The internal scaler is terrible and the picture quality isn't that great either. It is an enormous monster of a screen and at 12 feet, it looked acceptable. At farther viewing distances the flaws would be less apparant and any detail in a 50" would also be lost unless you have the vision of an eagle. Reports indicated that the internal NEC scaler cannot be bypassed with an NR scaler or any other non-LEEZA scaler because DVI won't sync up either. I cannot find the exact NEC post to refer to but, it basically indicated that the internal NEC scaler cannot be bypassed.
I saw the NEC recently as well and thought it was good but not great. The 61 inch Runco is decidedly better. Beware: Runco bashing is a popular sport on the web because their dealers charge a lot; nonetheless their plasmas systems are very, very good. I like the Fujitsu very much, too, and could live with either product.
But none of the 60 and 61 inch units are as good as the best 50 inchers. Just not enough pixels yet. However, the 60/61 inch size is just so much more impressive, especially when viewing films.
PF let me know when you are in Miami. Shrek on HBO was Spectacular.
We are talking Teranex/Vidikron grade.
If you arttended the AVM technical class you would understand that sam Runco don't have 200 million to do a chip that manipulates the 61" Nec glass this well. You can always feed a Faroudja DVI to the Fuitsu and make it better in the future. The Runco will not do that. Please be fair here.
Then it is a matter of taste regarding the 50" versus 61" quality.
Yes the 5002 has LINEARITY oozing out of it's ventholes. No matter on what programme that colorimetry stays put. But many people find that the 5002 on the best hd seems too dense. Not doing it as much justice as the 6101. I think Eric has maintained that on the best HD the 6101 looked better to him than the 5002, if that is his assesment , I agree, the 5002 becomes soo dense that it the image begins to empaste (from pasty).
Much reserach needs to be done in these regard. Specially when 50 foot wide Cinema dlp is not more denser. Let's be open minded to what the future brings us, even if only 1366 x 768. D'accord?
Tonight the Fujitsu garnered the honors.
With exception of black levels (as noticed on 2.35 letterbox only) and a more compact presentation of the worst SD material, the 61" has the edge to alot of folk down here.
The 50" is more dense, but the 61, at 1 screen height away looked so good tonight that you didn't even cared about the pixels.
PF You where the one to first point out the bebefit of 61" on Sports and Epic programme. The Fujitsu proves that NOW.
They are going for 73" next with the same res., and I can't wait.
No Cine, I never said: "that on the best HD the 6101 looked better to him than the 5002". On no program material do I feel the 61 looks better than the 50. I said that on the best HD program material the 61 looks very good, but never better than on the 50 inchers. That is on the best HD only, I still feel that the PQ on non HD and even on DVD is barely acceptable and only at 12 feet or further away.
You went on to say that "You can always feed a Faroudja DVI to the Fujitsu and make it better in the future". As far as I know, that is incorrect because the DVI port on the 61 has the same "resrtrictions" as on the 50 inch and will not sync up at 1365x768, unless you have a LEEZA. You had best be happy with the internal AVS because it appears that it will probably be your only scaling option for this panel.
cineramax: "They are going for 73" next with the same res."
so far the 61 has the same res as the 50; i assume then that the 73will as well?
what are they going to fill the gaps between pixels with? what did you find out about "fill factor" at your tech seminars? with a 50", the pixels are about .8mm apart; if the pixels are the same size for the 73", and the res is the same, the gaps between pixels have to ger 20% larger. screen door problem?
Yes, I remember saying that about sports broadcasts. You're absolutely right; I'd rather watch an HD sports feed on a good 60/61 inch plasma than a 50 incher just because of the size and involvement factor, assuming I can sit at the appropriate distance. 60/61 inches just works so much better than 50 inches. Bigger -- 73 inches -- is obviously the future, not 50 inches, or even 61 inches.
But I have yet to a see 60/61 inch unit that looks quite right even on HD feeds. Next time I'm in Coconut Grove, though, I'll look forward to seeing your setup to prove me wrong. D'accord.
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