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I just heard Russound wants my system back. Don't know the details yet, but has anyone else experienced this? I will post details when i find out more about the recall.


Scott
 

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I tried to order one this morning and got a call back from them indicating the recall and something having to do with an isolated incident of the main unit overheating and the dc remote switching circuit not working properly. All of the stores and distributors were contacted and told to return stock and contact their customers.
 

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I have the CAV 6.6, so I contacted my dealer yesterday to find out what the deal was.


Apparently if the 12V trigger output is shorted, the unit can overheat causing a risk of fire.


My dealer seemed to think that at some point there will be a dealer installable hardware fix consisting of installing either a resistor or a fuse.


But if you're not using the 12V triggers, or you're not accidentally shorting them out, there shouldn't be any risk.


Stephen
 

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While on the topic of this model, how do you like it? Do you use the video switching as well and if so - is there any degradation in quality? Any particular pluses or minuses on other features?


Of all the models in the class, the 6.6 looks like what I want, but this holdup is making me second guess myself.
 

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I'm not using the video switching, so I can't comment on that. It is a very well thought out unit, obviously building on experience from earlier units.


For instance, there is a "master" 12v trigger output as well as a 12v trigger for each of the 6 inputs. So you can use a 12v trigger to turn on a single device when that device turns on, or you can use the master trigger to turn on all your equipment, assuming you have a 12v triggered outlet. It also has a 12v trigger input so that you can feed it a trigger from your pre/pro, in which case it leaves all the 12v triggers on so that all the equipment in your rack is on when your pre/pro/receiver is on. Very clever.


What else... To connect speakers to the outputs there is a small connector for each zone that pops off. You connect the speaker wires into the connector, and then pop the whole connector back into the CAV 6.6.


The keypads are, I think, the nicest I've seen. They are fairly complicated since they can do so much, but again, very well thought out, and not difficult to program, although you kind of need the reference manual right in front of you while you're programming them. The beauty is just like they say in their advertsing: once you set up one keypad, you can plug in the other ones and they immediately just work, they're already set up.


One more thing, I didn't expect the speaker outs to be all that great. They're not spec'd with a whole lot of power, and I expected them to be adequate for driving a zone, and sound okay, but not great. After hearing them I actually think they sound pretty good, nice and clean and smooth. There is a pretty hefty transformer in the unit, so they spent some money on the amp section of the CAV 6.6 as well.


I guess you can tell, I like it.


Stephen
 

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Thanks for the reply. I just hope they start shipping them again soon. I was glad to see that they are coming out with the power tools pc programming software in November. This looks like it will be very flexible and save time doing complicated macros.


Well... I guess waiting will give me time to work on my structured panel. :D
 

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If you are going to wait you should look at a whole host of new products which will be coming out soon. Russound has the A-bus for one (which is already here), netstreams has Musica and a new system that is all CAT5 called DigiLinx coming and Atlantic Technology has a new system coming soon called SystemLine. The old method using speaker cables run to volume controls from a monolithic receiver is going the way of HAL (you remembere HAL from 2001: A space odyssey). Since you must wait on the CAV6.6 you should check them out, they look to provide must easier installation and easier programming. The CAV will be obsolete by the time they fix the fire problem.
 

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Oh, I don't know. The new products coming out certainly do look interesting and certainly deserve a look, and the i.p. based stuff especially looks good.


Systemline looked interesting, but I had a hard time finding any real information on the web or on the Atlantic Technology website.


Musica though doesn't seem all that wonderful to me, or at least no better than the CAV 6.6. You still have a master unit somewhere in the house that all the keypads connect to, and yeah, the amp is in the room, part of the keypad. But it's powered by a 28v power cable from the master unit, and you'll still need to run speaker cables from the keypad to where you want your speakers in the room. From an installation point of view, for me, it's a wash. I'd rather have my amp in a rack where it can easily dissipate heat than sitting in my wall between my studs. For me it's probably easier to run speaker cable from the base unit to where I want speakers than to run a cat5 bonded to a power cable to the keypad, and then speaker cables from the keypad to my speakers.


In any case, it'll end up functionally the same.


The IP based stuff on the other hand has the potential to be more revolutionary. But you'll still need to provide power and an ethernet connection to the keypad. The advantage could be that you no longer need a base unit at all, *except* how do you get traditional audio sources onto your home network, if not with some sort of base unit that you can plug your sources into?


But David is definitely correct, keep an eye out for new stuff, what's available changes constantly.
 

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For those interested, I am using the Sonance Navigator Harbor with the new K2 LCD touchpads and it is simple and eay to use and the video switching is first rate. Programming is intuitive and the price is right. It is priced similalry to the CAV 6.6 (perhaps a bit cheaper).


Regarding obsolescence, I think that is over rated. For most, audio that is easily controlled thru the house and simple video switching is all most want. There will always be changes, but pressing play and switching discs from any control panel thru the house is what most are looking for. LCD keypads are certainly a nice upgrade as all buttons are customized.
 

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sgunn,


Yes the IP stuff sounds real interesting especially for installation since you only need to run CAT5 since it is IP based. What would be very interesting is if they adopted 802.11a wireless transmission so no wires would be necessary and one could set up a wireless local area network with 54+ Mbps data rates. Each device would receive its own IP address which the address space is virtually limitless. You would still need power to the locations where the base unit (hub) and keypads/speakers are.


From what I understand about the SystemLine the power is brought to the individual components via the CAT5 cable and the amplifier in the speaker is Class D which produces little heat and plenty of power for distributed listening. The only place for additional amplifier power might be for the outdoors and or very large rooms. For very large rooms where multiple speakers would be used the idea is to provide sub-room capability or to subordinate a speaker/amp combination off of another speaker/amp zone. Atlantic Technology has some great ideas and definitely worth waiting for. I wouldn't worry about the quality of the speakers since Atlantic Technology makes outstanding speakers. You probably wouldn't want to replace these with inferior speakers from another manufacturer. Possibly they may come out with just the electronic components which can tie into any set of speakers.


Sources are brought into the SystemLine unit via local input modules which I understand to be wall plate size and is essentially a mini-controller/transciever for attaching to the LAN (local area network). Really cool since you can put sources anywhere you want and just run a CAT5 to it and it can talk to everyone else out there. Sources become essentially unlimited because of the IP address space.


DigiLinX from netstreams sounds very similar in concept so again look for them also.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
Regarding obsolescence, I think that is over rated. For most, audio that is easily controlled thru the house and simple video switching is all most want. There will always be changes, but pressing play and switching discs from any control panel thru the house is what most are looking for. LCD keypads are certainly a nice upgrade as all buttons are customized.
I think this is key, and the CAV 6.6 does this very well.
 

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Quote:
but pressing play and switching discs from any control panel thru the house is what most are looking for. LCD keypads are certainly a nice upgrade as all buttons are customized.
Respectfully, I disagree. I don't think the user interface is the key. Sure it looks fine and presents itself well and quite frankly can be made very user friendly. We already have that. The real key and issue to audio and video distribution is ease of installation and setup. Any system that can make that much easier wins. Interfaces are a dime a dozen and everybody has one that is better than the next guys and it is all a matter of personal preference. But, when it comes to purchasing and running three different types of cables and making sure the connection are correct and home runned back to the source (that is installation) the easier the better. Especially for the homeowner and most definitely for the installer who wants to maximize efficiency of time spent installing a job. This inturn makes multi-room audio a reachable assest for most homeowners. Bring on the IP based CAT5 installations and press on to wireless IP which will make installation even that much easier. These are the substantive issues that will make a big difference to audio and video distribution, not how cool is your button.
 

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My installer was paid by the hour. I am sure he didn't mind the several hours of work for putting in my CAV 6.6.


Paul
 

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David

I have stayed out of this thread because I do not know the CAV 6.6 but as you have moved the argument in to more theoretical areas I shall add my unwanted opinion. I could not disagree with you more. In my opinion the GUI is everything from the client's point of view. In most current systems you need to run a keypad and speaker wires and a coax for video. That should not place undo stress on inventory management nor does it take that much more time to install than an IP based system. CAT5 is much more high maintenance then a 2 pair shielded wire. You have to be careful how much it is bent, how much torque when it is pulled and terminations are much more problematic ( just as the folks at Phast ). Then there is the fact that the wires are too small to carry sufficient current for a good amplifier so you will then need to run speaker 14x4 to carry to necessary amperage for the digital amplifiers that are sure to follow with IP based systems. Sure, if you pull a CAT5e and only need Ethernet speeds you may not have any issues but if you need 350MHz from a system that supposedly gives you 350MHz it may not always so easy to obtain in a residential environment. Then there are networking issues which most of us in this business are just beginning to learn and will become much more complicated as more applications are added to the LAN.

How many of us know the difference between a gateway and a router? And how many of us enable WEP or even know what it is?


The end user just wants to use his system. He wants it to work all the time without having to figure out why or what is out of sync. He should not want to have to take the phone call from his wife when he is at work asking how to get the Barney tape on the TV because the baby has been crying for 30 minutes and she cannot get it on the TV. A well thought out GUI is not only attractive but simplifies the use of the system. It may require you as the installer to jump through hoops to accomplish this and the client will have no understanding of the time effort and years of experience that have gone into your making his installation successful. But I do not believe that successful GUIs are a dime a dozen.


I just want to add this as I have been making this argument on the Crestron progarmmig site. I agree that a cool GUI is nice but not necessary. A successful GUI may, in fact, look very "uncool" as it may not use the icons that everyone thinks are cool but few save the power user understand. A suceesful GUI makes system operation easy and should be intuitive to use. It should not force you to scroll through endless series of menu screens to obtain the desired result. This is the drawback, at present with the IP audio systems I have looked at. Yet it should have all the necessary control fuctions that you need. This sort of GUI is not omnipresent.


If you have the mentality that success is a function of price then you will be out of business as all of us in custom installation are too small to compete with national discount chains and e-tailers. We provide value added services that are necessary but more expensive ( as you would expect if you are adding value ). IP based systems will not change that fact only the set of installation skills necessary to make the installation successful.


Anyway that is my two cents.


Alan
 

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I agree with you Alan especially as regards to the user interface . The interface is the most important aspect and those that are successful are certainly not a dime a dozen .
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by audiblesolutions


IThe end user just wants to use his system. He wants it to work all the time without having to figure out why or what is out of sync. He should not want to have to take the phone call from his wife when he is at work asking how to get the Barney tape on the TV because the baby has been crying for 30 minutes and she cannot get it on the TV.

Alan


LOL!!!!!!!!!!


Dave
 

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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by David Guill

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't think the user interface is the key. Sure it looks fine and presents itself well and quite frankly can be made very user friendly. We already have that. The real key and issue to audio and video distribution is ease of installation and setup.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I am not sure who uses your system in your house (or if you even have one) but the GUI is everything in multiroom. It has to be intuitive, easy, and not intimidating to the men & ladies of the household who want music or to control, send video to various TVs thru the house. It has to be simple..... with no manual nearby or fuss.


Set up and ease of installation is not my problem, it is the installers. It should be a non-issue in system selection if the system is what fits best for you and your family. The difficult installation is a non-issue if your installer has actually installed the system before. Who even thinks of installation issues when browsing various systems and installers? Installation has a cost, but that is part of the whole deal when you buy one of these systems for the home. The investment is worthless if after install, no one can use it to it's fullest potential.


My problem come s when I can't control it - not if it is difficult for someone else to install..


For example, as we were renovating our home last year, we found that two I-beams had to be added to support the ceiling in our kitchen as our kitchen layout disturbed some load bearing walls. This was after framing was completed. The builder said it was going to be pain in the ass to bring the two I-beams in and install them exactly where they needed to go. However, this is how we wanted the kitchen to be layed out and weren't about to redesign because what we wanted was now going to be 'extremely difficult'. My response to him was, "Figure it out and do it" (but not so bluntly). I didn't know how he was going to do it (nor did he..)..........that was his problem. (BTW - he did figure it out and got it done).


Pretty buttons are nice especially when they are part of an easy to control system. This helps these systems sell. The Sonance and Russound keypads are esthetically pleasing AND quite intuitive.


I can't think of a more complicated system than the sophisticated Crestron line up. Based on your theory of ease of set up, it amazes me that they haven't gone bankrupt. They are the envy of anyone who knows anything about home system control but are the most sophisticated units to program.


GUI is everything for the end user.

Programming is not an issue for the end user.

Alan (above) is absolutely right and his client description is me! I just want it to work.....easily.
 

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Very interesting, but you may be missing my point. Every system has its GUI or user interface device. Some are more malleable than others ie touchscreen vs hard buttons. It is up to you the installer to know the client and choose the correct system according to the clients needs. Having developed GUIs for software programs and for control devices for several years, I have found that the next step in the most crucial. All GUIs have a structure which follows a thought paradigm. Most developers follow only there own thought paradigm and do not try to understand "the way" their client thinks when developing HIS/HER (the clients) interface. So I repeat, GUI or control devices are a dime a dozen and really it is the talent of the developer to understand the thought process of the client which makes the user interface and not necessarily the coolness of the device.


What I am saying is that an installation that uses IP (especially wireless) will be far more expandable and easy to install. From a clients standpoint if an installer can cut the cost of the system several thousand dollars by reducing labor and the systems sound quality is the same then without a doubt the labor saving system will sell. Installers and Do-it-yourselfers will use the system because they save, and because future additions are much easier. Zone are virtually limitless.


AudibleSolutions, Yes a custom installer provides a necessary service but you will be out of business if you do not look for labor saving techniques and systems so you can cut your clients unnecessary costs. Time is money and is better spent putting in two systems in the time it took you to put in one. Your clients want it that way and so do the manufacturers.
 

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Keeping this on topic...........


CI GUI can be a new thread. I believe everyone is on the same page just looking in from different angles/parts of the county.



Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by David Guill
sgunn,


From what I understand about the SystemLine the power is brought to the individual components via the CAT5 cable and the amplifier in the speaker is Class D which produces little heat and plenty of power for distributed listening. The only place for additional amplifier power might be for the outdoors and or very large rooms. For very large rooms where multiple speakers would be used the idea is to provide sub-room capability or to subordinate a speaker/amp combination off of another speaker/amp zone. Atlantic Technology has some great ideas and definitely worth waiting for. I wouldn't worry about the quality of the speakers since Atlantic Technology makes outstanding speakers. You probably wouldn't want to replace these with inferior speakers from another manufacturer. Possibly they may come out with just the electronic components which can tie into any set of speakers.


Sources are brought into the SystemLine unit via local input modules which I understand to be wall plate size and is essentially a mini-controller/transciever for attaching to the LAN (local area network). Really cool since you can put sources anywhere you want and just run a CAT5 to it and it can talk to everyone else out there. Sources become essentially unlimited because of the IP address space.


DigiLinX from netstreams sounds very similar in concept so again look for them also.
Excellent overview on SystemLine David! We are gearing up for a massive launch of this exciting new product and as such have intentionally limited our exposure of this new product and technology (other than at CEDIA Expo). However, keep your eyes and ears open for details coming soon!


In summary, SystemLine utilizes powered speakers which allow us to put sound quality back in to distributed audio. As many of you may have experienced, most distributed audio systems sound "OK" at best. We don't think that's right. Having said that, we also know that many people don't have the budgets to do distributed audio with an audiophile approach.


Hence we developed SystemLine as a cost effective way to deliver high fidelity sound through out the house, while being easy to install and operate, and allow full future upgradeability.


Feel free to email me "off line" at [email protected] if you are interested in more details of this very exciting product and technology.
 
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