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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently moved into a new home and need a Subwoofer upgrade. I relied on my original M&K V2B for decades in a small space. When it went bust last year, I purchased an Outlaw X-12 to hold me over until I moved. It also gave me the opportunity to experiment with ported... I ran it with 1 plug ported.

My new space is in the basement (cement floor and walls covering in sheetrock and Rockwool in the listening area. Moving to the basement has changed my purpose to 70/30 movie/listening from more like 50/50.

5.1 System: Emotiva XMC-1, XPA 5, 2 pair of M&K S1B's, Jamo C10 cen (I have additional M&K's considering 7.1 if i can work out placement. Samsung 85 Q90T (and it takes up most of the wall)

The space as you can see is a bit of an L and open, with my LCR and TV in a 6x10 out cove. The listening side is roughly 1600 cu.ft. and the other side is roughly1400 cu.ft. The stairs in the middle are are open, The ceiling is 6'8". No windows. I'm only concerned about sound at the MLP (blue sofa)
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I'm leaning toward Rythmik's but keep waffling between sealed (E15HP2/F18) and ported (FV15). The sealed size is rather appealing and provides more positioning options. I'm planning on duals but might have to do 1 now and one later depending on which I choose. I would consider additional subs down road.

Musically, I enjoy orchestral work with organ and tympani, anything from Bach to Yes (I'm a drummer and listen to world drums often). Movie wise, I want to feel Fury!

Level wise I listen around 85bd and watch closer to 90 db, but have been known to push it.

Q's
  1. Do I consider the entire space or just the listening side when sizing new subs?
  2. Sealed or Ported (I favor sealed)
  3. Everyone suggests ported with cement floors, but the Rythmiks appear to reach deep, multiple sealed should give me good output?
  4. Should I consider nearfield (had the outlaw behind the sofa and it was bangin') . Its rather lame up front by the TV but visually I do prefer a pair of subs up front (OCD need for symmetry)
  5. what about 3 subs of mixed size? something like 2 FV12 up front, and an FV18 behind the sofa? (assuming measurements concur with the placement)
  6. If I really want sealed should I consider HSU USL-15 ... a lot of them?
Trying to get DIRAC working again and just starting with REW so nothing but SPL meter used so far.
 

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With your longest dimension being 26', your room gain will likely start around 20Hz. Due to this it is probably advisable to stick to ported and not sealed.

Forget ULF tactile response with your concrete floors. Can you get some? yes. Will it be significant? No (I have a similar room as you). You can still get chest slam in your space with the right sub choice and possibly choosing higher Xover settings depending on your final setup. You'll need couch shakers of some kind to get ULF tactile response.

Even if you go with tactile response devices you will be giving up output between 20Hz and 30-35Hz or so with the sealed. So if you are a music lover such as myself, you'll still want ported IMO or some instruments will lose the "weight" that you expect to hear.

Since you have a solid sub with the Outlaw already, try spending some time taking measurements at all your potential sub locations with REW and a UMIK or other calibrated mic. You can then see if you have two locations that work well together. If so, buying 2 larger subs will likely make you happier than buying several smaller subs because odds are you won't have a ton of good places to put subs. You seem like a great candidate for dual FV15HP if you can find two locations that will work well.
 

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For a concrete floor, consider using Crowson actuators for ULF and enhanced tactile response. With an open floorplan, output will be important. Also consider nearfield placement (perhaps right behind the couch) or a mix of nearfield and the front of the room (time aligned.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@badtlc great input. Pretty consistent with what I’ve been reading and told (spoke with Ed Mullen at SVS, enlightening; great guy never tried to sell me)

@rcohen will look at crowsons. Wished I had gutted the entire basement would have been easier :(
 

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Sony A8H - Yamaha RX-A2000 - Tekton Lore Reference w/Center - HSU surround - Harbottle Audio 18vS
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For the ultimate in bass impact & extension I personally HIGHLY recommend you take a look at @HarbottleAudio subwoofers. Absolute top shelf subwoofers that offer a combination of pro audio type mid-bass output PLUS deep extension along with accuracy to die for.

…just my 2 cents bud :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Anyone have thoughts on the PSA TV1512. Will it dig deeper than the rythmik. I’d consider trying both but still recovering from a shoulder replacement. I can’t move either…
 

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I wouldn't consider anyone but Rythmik for subwoofers, if music is a serious consideration.

IMPORTANT - you should move your listening position. Your plan shows you sitting in the center of the long dimension, so you will have a huge null around 55 Hz. You will want to relocate the position such that you are 2/3 or 3/5 of the long dimension. Alternatively, you could place your dual subs on either end to help alleviate the effects of the room mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@tim Been using furniture sliders a lot since surgery :) but yeah, these are far heavier than the X-12. Good call.

@rynberg us that 2/3 or 3/5ths from the main source? I'm hoping to get closer to the TV when a new sofa arrives, probably 1/3rd. How will that impact sound?

BTW how can I calculate and measure such things?
 

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I wouldn't consider anyone but Rythmik for subwoofers, if music is a serious consideration.

IMPORTANT - you should move your listening position. Your plan shows you sitting in the center of the long dimension, so you will have a huge null around 55 Hz. You will want to relocate the position such that you are 2/3 or 3/5 of the long dimension. Alternatively, you could place your dual subs on either end to help alleviate the effects of the room mode.
Fixing longitudinal modes is tricky.
Opposite subs helps a lot, but the 2nd harmonic still gets you for most practical placement options.
Addressing with room treatment requires huge bass traps - stuff you build not buy - usually impractical.
DLBC and MSO can work magic with that, but you still need sub(s) in front and back.

3158870
 

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@rynberg us that 2/3 or 3/5ths from the main source? I'm hoping to get closer to the TV when a new sofa arrives, probably 1/3rd. How will that impact sound?
You can also be 1/3 or 2/5 back from the main source, it makes no difference. What matters is the distance from the centerline. Your idea to move closer should be better. :)
 
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Fixing longitudinal modes is tricky.
Opposite subs helps a lot, but the 2nd harmonic still gets you for most practical placement options.
Addressing with room treatment requires huge bass traps - stuff you build not buy - usually impractical.
DLBC and MSO can work magic with that, but you still need sub(s) in front and back.
You are absolutely right. The OP should focus on relocating the listening position, which sounds like the path they are headed down anyway. All the other mitigations are just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
 
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You are absolutely right. The OP should focus on relocating the listening position, which sounds like the path they are headed down anyway. All the other mitigations are just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
It's actually pretty amazing what DLBC and MSO can do if you have subs on opposite sides. They essentially adjust the phase/delay per frequency per sub to shift the nulls to other parts of the room. You can visualize this in the REW Room Simulator by fiddling with the delays on individual subs to watch the nulls shift around. Bending the laws of physics with math!
 
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