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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am running this test and will have the results in this thread soon. I used an S-Vid cord output from my JVC S-VHS into the S-Vid inputs of both respective DVDR's. 2002 Tape is an originally recorded S-VHS Fuji EP tape but that is good. We will see which unit does better. I consider this a good test. Both units are factory default settings for this. That is THE only WAY to fairly test it. Otherwise you are saying one unit is more of a hassle than the other for the Average Joe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Quick Update- If playback resolution while recording the S-VHS tape is any indication ---so far the 2005 ES-10 is looking far superior. The Proof of the Pudding though is how the burned disc plays back on the XP-50.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK- The 2005 ES-10 Panny absoutely inputs SVHS Tapes better than the 2005 Pio 531. It was just a better video on the burned DVD-R disc when played back on the XP-50 -plain and simple. I would expect the same result on a VHS tape input as well. It is only logical. Now I must caveat this- Pio was good- it's just that the Panny ES-10 was noticibly better and superior. I can guarantee this. Can the 2005 HDD E50 Panny replicate the results?- I do not know- I do not have one.
 

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Well, I hope you are right about this so I don't end up wasting a lot of time testing the E10. I've got over 100 high quality S-VHS tapes I want to archive on DVD, so PQ is very important. I've burned a few DVDs on my 533HS with good results, but if the ES10 is that much better, then that's what I should be using. I'm keeping the 533HS no matter what because I also need the DV input. I'll stop by CC today and pick up an ES10 and do the comparison myself. If it looks as good as you say, then I will keep it just for archiving the S-VHS tapes.
 

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I would like to see if the Pioneer's picture can be made to look as good or better than the Panny if all of the Pioneer's adjustments were used & exactly what those adjustments were.


That way we could tell the average Joe who isn't going to fool with adjustments to get the Panasonic but if the Pioneer with adjustments is better than the Panny then most people on this forum should buy the Pioneer & adjust it.


If the Pioneer can be setup once & left with the "Dubbing Adjustments" that should also be taken into account when considering which Recorder for the average Joe to buy.


Also I would like to see it tested with actual VHS tapes (Not just S-VHS tapes that the average person is not going to have) at SP & EP speeds & using Composite & S-Video Inputs because there may be a difference between them.


If the S-VHS VCR has a TBC in it or NR Circuits or any kind of Picture Controls they should all be turned "OFF" or set to "STANDARD" because let's face it the average person is not going to have a VCR that has those features in it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313
I would like to see if the Pioneer's picture can be made to look as good or better than the Panny if all of the Pioneer's adjustments were used & exactly what those adjustments were.


That way we could tell the average Joe who isn't going to fool with adjustments to get the Panasonic but if the Pioneer with adjustments is better than the Panny then most people on this forum should buy the Pioneer & adjust it.


If the Pioneer can be setup once & left with the "Dubbing Adjustments" that should also be taken into account when considering which Recorder for the average Joe to buy.


Also I would like to see it tested with actual VHS tapes (Not just S-VHS tapes that the average person is not going to have) at SP & EP speeds & using Composite & S-Video Inputs because there may be a difference between them.


If the S-VHS VCR has a TBC in it or NR Circuits or any kind of Picture Controls they should all be turned "OFF" or set to "STANDARD" because let's face it the average person is not going to have a VCR that has those features in it.
Bill1313, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I don't buy into this notion that you've gotta test with the factory defaults. The only meaningful test would be to setup each recorder for the best possible results, since that's exactly what I and other folks in this forum would do if they owned these units.


I stopped by CC today, and they were out of the ES10, but expect the ES20 in the next couple of weeks. I've got a $50 gift card to use up, so I think I'll wait for that. I just hope it's worth all the trouble. The S-VHS recordings I made with the 533HS look very good on an 60" Sony XBR LCD projector TV. They're sharp yet clean, have naturally saturated, true colors, and zero pixelation. So I am very curious how the ES10 will improve upon this. One possibility would be the ES10 would produce over saturated, over sharpened images, which often looks better to some folks. I'll report my findings here.
 

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Quote:
I stopped by CC today, and they were out of the ES10, but expect the ES20 in the next couple of weeks. I've got a $50 gift card to use up, so I think I'll wait for that.
From what I can tell the ES20 is a UK/European model only. Are you sure about this???


Also, note that if you get a non-HDD Panny recorder you can't transfer a DVD-RAM recording to a Panny HDD model and then subsequently high speed dub to DVD-R/+R/-RW. If you plant to only work in "video mode" vs. VR mode then this is a non-issue. If you need to edit your recordings however you would be better served by getting a HDD based Panasonic recorder.
 

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Yes, What the heck is a USA Panasonic ES20 model & how much did CC say it would be selling for?


The 2005 USA DVD Recorder Catalog that Panasonic sent me only lists the ES-10, ES-30V, EH-50 & the E-500 as this years recorder line up.


But it would not surprise me if Panny did add some new models to the mix like something to replace the E-65 (Card Slots & TV Guide) & E-95 (Bigger HDD & A Digital Input) models.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313
Yes, What the heck is a USA Panasonic ES20 model & how much did CC say it would be selling for?


The 2005 USA DVD Recorder Catalog that Panasonic sent me only lists the ES-10, ES-30V, EH-50 & the E-500 as this years recorder line up.


But it would not surprise me if Panny did add some new models to the mix like something to replace the E-65 (Card Slots & TV Guide) & E-95 (Bigger HDD & A Digital Input) models.
The guy at CC found the ES20 on his system as a pre-order, but there was no mention of specs, so he googled it and found it at J&R.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4051229


J&R also shows it as pre-order. It has an EPG and DV input and is the same price as the ES10.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari
From what I can tell the ES20 is a UK/European model only. Are you sure about this???


Also, note that if you get a non-HDD Panny recorder you can't transfer a DVD-RAM recording to a Panny HDD model and then subsequently high speed dub to DVD-R/+R/-RW. If you plant to only work in "video mode" vs. VR mode then this is a non-issue. If you need to edit your recordings however you would be better served by getting a HDD based Panasonic recorder.
Yes, this had occurred to me. I need to copy something to DVD-R in Video mode and see if I can add chapter marks. Anyone know if that does work? If it does, then I'll be satisfied.


What I really hope is HoustonGus is wrong and the ES20 is not noticeably better than the 533HS, and the ES20 will go back to CC.
 

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Did anyone notice that the ES-20 at J&R has a "Freeview" Tuner in it & "RGB" Inputs & Outputs?


Sounds like a European model to me & I can't understand what CC would be doing with it?


I understand that in some of the English Mags. they were talking about Panasonic's upcoming models that were going to have "Freeview" Tuners in them incase you wanted to hold off instead of jumping on the European ES-10 when it first came out.


But maybe Panasonic is releasing a USA model with a digital input too?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari
Also, note that if you get a non-HDD Panny recorder you can't transfer a DVD-RAM recording to a Panny HDD model and then subsequently high speed dub to DVD-R/+R/-RW. If you plant to only work in "video mode" vs. VR mode then this is a non-issue. If you need to edit your recordings however you would be better served by getting a HDD based Panasonic recorder.
Yeah, I guess the only reason to get the ES10 at this point would be to see how the PQ compares to 533HS when recording S-VHS tapes. Then back it goes. I'm not willing to purchase a second HDD recorder at this time, so if the Panasonic is really better, I'll just hold off on archiving the S-VHS collection for awhile longer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am going to test regular VHS on this same test. Should have results up on this thread in the next day or two.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by probepro
Yes, this had occurred to me. I need to copy something to DVD-R in Video mode and see if I can add chapter marks. Anyone know if that does work? If it does, then I'll be satisfied.
On a non-HDD Panny (e.g., ES10) you can only add permanent chapter marks to a VR mode disc (i.e., DVD-RAM). Video mode discs will have auto 5 min chapters upon finalization. For Panny recorders, you can only retain custom chapter marks on video mode discs by first inserting them into the HDD copy prior to high speed dubbing to -R/+R/-RW in video mode. That's why I mentioned it in the first place.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari
On a non-HDD Panny (e.g., ES10) you can only add permanent chapter marks to a VR mode disc (i.e., DVD-RAM). Video mode discs will have auto 5 min chapters upon finalization. For Panny recorders, you can only retain custom chapter marks on video mode discs by first inserting them into the HDD copy prior to high speed dubbing to -R/+R/-RW in video mode. That's why I mentioned it in the first place.
Yeah, 533HS is similar to the Panny, so keeping a HDD-less recorder won't work for me, but I still want to do the test to settle these claims about the Panny once and for all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok I just finished dubbing a 2001 recorded VHS tape to both units. The VHS tape was a high grade Maxell Professional. The recording was at EP speed on the VHS tape. Even at EP it is a very good original recording. The settings on both DVDR units were factory default (out of the box). Dub record on both DVDRs was XP. The Panny ES10 dub was definitely better video quality than the Pioneer. It was crisper, sharper and to me had better color. The Pio was good ,it just was not as good as the Panny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bill- I would like you or anyone else to specifically tell me exactly what to adjust to "make it better". Heard a lot of talk about this but no one has given specifics. I'll be glad to.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGuy
The settings on both DVDR units were factory default (out of the box). Dub record on both DVDRs was XP. The Panny ES10 dub was definitely better video quality than the Pioneer. It was crisper, sharper and to me had better color. The Pio was good ,it just was not as good as the Panny.
Of course the Panny was better. Come on HG, you know better. The Pioneers add digital processing to their out of the box, default settings, which look terrible. You have to adjust the recording video adjustment "&" the playback video adjustment to "MEMORY 1 or 2 or 3 to get a "neutral" setting. Pioneer's recorders are setup for the ignorant people who have poorly setup systems. This is the biggest problem about Pioneer Recorders but it's easily solved.


I've found the Pioneer recording to be clones of the original. Quality wise, you can't do better than a clone. You can process the crap out of it, but quality is measured by creating without adding material that wasn't there originally.


Even the Pioneer DVR-420H produced clone images on most material. It only had slight macroblocking on very hard, fast moving, flashing scenes. Other recorders had the exact same problem on these same scenes. The new models seem to have corrected that one flaw by now offering professional quality.


Have a good one.
 
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