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I have a UHF CM 4228 and I’m in the Cedar Ridge area (between Grass Valley and Colfax). Even though KVIE and KXTV have gone VHF, the CM 4228 picks them up with a signal strength of between 80-90 on a dish ViP 622 ... gotta love that antenna!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by havana46 /forum/post/16657699


I have a UHF CM 4228 and I'm in the Cedar Ridge area (between Grass Valley and Colfax). Even though KVIE and KXTV have gone VHF, the CM 4228 picks them up with a signal strength of between 80-90 on a dish ViP 622 ... gotta love that antenna!


I also have the CM 4228 mounted on my roof. Before I did a soft reset, I had two listings showing up in the available OTA channels for 10.1 and 6.1. One had 0% strength and the other had 100% strength. Deleting one of them removed both of them from my guide. I then followed the software reset option and this cleaned up my OTA list of available stations.


After the reset, there was only one listing for 10.1 and 6.1 both showing 100% strength. Below is text that describes the VHF characteristics for this antenna. It is primarily a UHF antenna.


"This antenna is advertised solely as a UHF antenna. But, as many people have discovered, it has strong gain for VHF-high, especially channel 9-13. What gives it this ability is the continuous screen. Other 8-bays have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves. Those antennas have little usefulness for VHF channels.


The continuous screen is not simply a reflector for these channels, but rather it becomes the primary radiating element. As a result, radiation out the back is very strong, nearly bi-directional for some channels."
 

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I spent Saturday and Sunday at KXTV as part of the phone bank answering viewer calls. The large majority of them are from people with indoor antennas that can not get KVIE or KXTV even after rescanning. Most are from older people that were sold indoor "HDTV" antennas when the bought their converter box or HDTV. We had one retired lady in Red Bluff trying to get the Sacramento DTV stations with rabit ears. She had been able to get the Sacramento analog stations with her old antenna. I had no idea some people in Red Bluff were watching Sacramento TV but I asked what channels and news people she had been watching and they were the Sacramento not Chico stations.


Quite a number of the had antennas made by Philips or the RCA flat antenna which it seems work poorly for VHF. Most of the people with outdoor antennas simply had to rescan for channels which many did not know how to do. A couple had UHF outdoor antennas and were not happy to learn they needed to be replaced.
 

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Rescans brought me the following results: Mits DLP internal tuner = all channels found and working (inc. 6.1 - 6.3 and 10.1 - 10.2). Pio 4280 internal tuner = same. Dish 622 DVR is having trouble seeing 40.1 but it sees 40.2 and no 10-1 signal, but it sees and gets 10-2. 6.1 - 6.3 don't register at all. All other channels working.


All using indoor antennas, either Silver Sensor or Rat Shack ears/loop combos.
 

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I watched KXTV Friday night. There was a news special at 11:30pm prior to the analog shutdown. There was a trip down memory lane about Sacramento television history. No test pattern at the end, no anthem, but an on-air countdown as the analog was turned off. The phrase "news ten dot three" was heard again as well, but not what would be on it.


A pair of rabbit ears, plus bowtie, is now the most effective television here at getting all of the digitals from Walnut Grove. Sam Shane said Walnut Creek.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdwn /forum/post/16642904


FusionII OTA from rooftop "uhf" CM4228 current signal strengths:

35 (3.1) 87% 17.4dB

9 (6.1) 87% 17.4dB

10 (10.1) 88% 17.7dB

25 (13.1) 79% 15.7dB

21 (31.1) 64% 12.9dB

40 (40.1) 89% 17.7dB

46 (58.1) 86% 17.2dB

More Signal Meter numbers. All three tuners fed by same CM4228.

E*722:

3.1 100%

6.1 82%

10.1 83%

13.1 100%

31.1 74%

40.1 100%

58.1 100%

SIR-TS160:

3.1 69%

6.1 69%

10.1 69%

13.1 69%

31.1 69%

40.1 77%

58.1 69%
 

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I was out of state all weekend and missed the big switch. Upon returning, I went to my mom's retirement complex to rescan her set and found that our 2 new VHF stations, KVIE and KXTV, wouldn't lock.


I had equipped her with a Terk HDTVa, on the theory that its rabbit ears elements would do the trick on 9 & 10 post-cutover, but that was good theory and bad reality. I finally got her a watchable signal on 10 (45/100) with some weird positioning of the antenna elements, but "6" (9) was a no-show at around 35-40/100.


She's in a crummy location for RF from Walnut Grove (wrong side of a big building, ground floor), but the HDTVa had done the job for her when everything was on UHF. Those remaining on UHF are still solid. But now that she can't watch Lawrence Welk on KVIE, I have a grumpy old lady on my hands!


I seem to recall something about KVIE being on temporary low power or a temporary antenna arrangement that will improve in a couple months. Anyone have the details on that?


--Ron
 

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I have a CM 4221 and I get a lot of conflict results from my DirecTV receivers.

Initially I was getting double entries for KVIE and KXTV but the receiver would not display a picture at all.


I did a complete reset of both my H20 and DVR to improve things. Now I am getting both channels with a signal strength of around 65. However the results on some other channels are quite strange. KCRA shows a signal strength of 0, although the picture is quite clear. I get a signal strength of 67 from KPIX but there is no picture. Last night the H20 would not display channel 40-1 although it has a rock solid signal. This morning I could not display KVIE but the signal strength was still around 65. Instead I played around with channel 9 from the Bay Area, which had a strong signal and was quite clear.


I will have to do some more experiments with my DVR this evening. But as long as I can reliably watch the big 4 with my antenna I will be happy.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG7OR /forum/post/16661372


I seem to recall something about KVIE being on temporary low power or a temporary antenna arrangement that will improve in a couple months. Anyone have the details on that?


--Ron

This is the second time I've heard this and I don't know where it came from. I'm reasonably sure KVIE is on their new and final antenna and at full authorized power. This is from their most recent FCC 387 filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...387&q_num=5030


FWIW, I measured KXTV & KVIE signal strength and they are within 1 dB of each other here.


Chuck
 

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Must be some weird ducting today.


Sacramento stations are really low in strength, but San Francisco is coming in great..


As of right now I'm getting...


2.1 KTVU

2.2 LATV


5.1 KPIX


9.1 KQED

9.2 KETH

9.3 World


10.1 KXTV

10.2 News 10


11.1 KNTV

11.2 Weather Plus

11.3 U.S.


12.1 KHSL

12.2 CW10


13.1 KOVR


20.1 KOFY

20.4 Azteca


20.1 KCVU

20.2 KRVU


28.1 KKPM?

28.2 HSN


31.1 KMAX


40.1 KTXL

40.2 LATV


42.1 KTNC


50.1 KFTY


64.1 KTFK


65.1 ION

65.2 qubo

65.3 ION life

65.4 Worship


I have lost channel 29, and 58 since monday, and 10, 13 and 31 are very pixilated, and in the low 60% range.
 

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Lost KXTV with the switch to DTV. I'm using an attic-mounted DB-4 (UHF only) here in Walnut Creek. Great picture from all "major" Sacramento stations. After switch I still get KVIE fine, but no KXTV. Makes no sense to me that I can still get KVIE on VHF but not KXTV.


Anyone have any ideas?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG7OR /forum/post/16661372


I was out of state all weekend and missed the big switch. Upon returning, I went to my mom's retirement complex to rescan her set and found that our 2 new VHF stations, KVIE and KXTV, wouldn't lock.


I had equipped her with a Terk HDTVa, on the theory that its rabbit ears elements would do the trick on 9 & 10 post-cutover, but that was good theory and bad reality. I finally got her a watchable signal on 10 (45/100) with some weird positioning of the antenna elements, but "6" (9) was a no-show at around 35-40/100.


--Ron

Hmmm... I had a similar experience, but a happier ending. After complaining here about KVIE and KXTV Saturday morning, I did some creative antenna adjustment. I now have the antenna pointing 40 degrees off of LOS, and KVIE and KXTV are my 2 strongest stations. Even trying rabbit ears those 2 are easily the strongest.


Dissappointing to read about the HDTVa. I don't get it. It should work on VHF as well as any amplified rabbit ears. Did you try lifting the antenna up towards the ceiling? Even a little height can make a big difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zante /forum/post/16664050


Lost KXTV with the switch to DTV. I'm using an attic-mounted DB-4 (UHF only) here in Walnut Creek. Great picture from all "major" Sacramento stations. After switch I still get KVIE fine, but no KXTV. Makes no sense to me that I can still get KVIE on VHF but not KXTV.


Anyone have any ideas?

I only have 1 idea. You may be in a null spot. Someone on AVS said if you consider the size of the wave, moving the antenna just a bit can get you out of a null spot. Is it possible to move that antenna? Even 1 foot might make a difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA /forum/post/16645766


I dug up some paperwork for you.


In the first round, they gave up both 6 and 53.

In the second round, they elected 9 in a Negotiated Channel Agreement with KTVU, KRON, and others.

The FCC determined it exceeded the interference limit and thus rejected 9, forcing them back onto 6.

In the final round, they applied again for 9.


Arguments for Channel 9: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...386&q_num=5000

Engineering Statement: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...386&q_num=5000


And the FCC approved it.


I think KIXE should consider a fill-in translator in Chico. They have channel 18 gear already, if it hasn't already been sold, and could retune it for 19 or something in Chico. I haven't studied it closely.


- Trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumc /forum/post/16650240


Thanks for the information. It seems a real mess.


A translator in Chico, or the Oroville area for that matter would help eliminate the problem for some as that's where the overlap area seems to be greatest. Oroville already has a translator for KCVU for instance. good idea.

I think that is easier said than done. If you read that second link, KVIE studied EVERY channel between 7 and 50, and they all had interference. (So much for Google's idea of wasted white space.) They chose 9 because it had the least, but not no, interference.


Finding more channels for translators may be tough.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumc /forum/post/16663422


Must be some weird ducting today.


Sacramento stations are really low in strength, but San Francisco is coming in great..


As of right now I'm getting...


2.1 KTVU

2.2 LATV


5.1 KPIX


9.1 KQED

9.2 KETH

9.3 World


10.1 KXTV

10.2 News 10


11.1 KNTV

11.2 Weather Plus

11.3 U.S.


12.1 KHSL

12.2 CW10


13.1 KOVR


20.1 KOFY

20.4 Azteca


20.1 KCVU

20.2 KRVU


28.1 KKPM?

28.2 HSN


31.1 KMAX


40.1 KTXL

40.2 LATV


42.1 KTNC


50.1 KFTY


64.1 KTFK


65.1 ION

65.2 qubo

65.3 ION life

65.4 Worship


I have lost channel 29, and 58 since monday, and 10, 13 and 31 are very pixilated, and in the low 60% range.


Very interesting! Where are you located? (City & nearest major intersection, if you don't mind). Thanks.
 

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KIXE actually just filed for an STA in Chico to put up a channel 18 translator.


- Trip
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNinCA /forum/post/16664262


I think that is easier said than done. If you read that second link, KVIE studied EVERY channel between 7 and 50, and they all had interference. (So much for Google's idea of wasted white space.) They chose 9 because it had the least, but not no, interference.


Finding more channels for translators may be tough.

Agreed. Although a very interesting problem. If a frequency could be found, a translator with a couple of spot beams to cover the chico/oroville area affected wouldn't be a bad solution for KIXE.


EDIT: Posted before I read Trip's responce above. It does seem to be the best way around the problem.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_h2 /forum/post/16664652


Very interesting! Where are you located? (City & nearest major intersection, if you don't mind). Thanks.

I'm overlooking the Sacramento Valley, at around 1500Ft above sea level.


I'm using Comercial Grade Channel Master antennas, a VHF only at 15, and a UHF Yagi, at 10 ft. (Higher is not better in this location)



Here is the report from Tv Fool for my location if you are interested.


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...663de10ef5cc1f


In the old days before the TV spectrum got conjested, KSBW 8 from salinas was not impossible to receive from my location, although the picture was not what you would call watchable by todays standards.


Also a little trivia... Once about 10 years ago, the ducting here was in just a perfect spot that I received a channel 2 out of Alberqurque, NM, for about 10 mins. Which blew my mind really. Alas, with the death of analog, that type of atmospherics is no longer possible to receive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNinCA /forum/post/16664128


Dissappointing to read about the HDTVa. I don't get it. It should work on VHF as well as any amplified rabbit ears. Did you try lifting the antenna up towards the ceiling? Even a little height can make a big difference.

To be sure, I moved it every way possible, both in azimuth and elevation. I also extended and compressed the VHF elements to various lengths. Oddly, the length that approximates a half-wave at ch. 10's frequency was not the best choice. The watchable picture on 10 came about with the elements contorted in a bizarre fashion that makes no sense to me.


My conclusion is that VHF penetrates very poorly through complex building structures. As for KVIE, if they're operating on their final transmitter and antenna configuration as Calaveras suggests, I'm going to have to figure out Plan B for my mom's apartment. Cable is a poor choice because she'd need the HD package to replace the excellent HD she'd been receiving OTA before 6/13, and she doesn't have the $$ for that. Her set doesn't have a QAM tuner, so the cheapo cable package (without a STB) isn't appealing. I don't see a good solution here without installing a more robust antenna in her apartment. That will take some clever engineering.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumc /forum/post/16664849


Also a little trivia... Once about 10 years ago, the ducting here was in just a perfect spot that I received a channel 2 out of Alberqurque, NM, for about 10 mins. Which blew my mind really. Alas, with the death of analog, that type of atmospherics is no longer possible to receive.

That wasn't ducting. That was Sporadic-E ionospheric propagation. It's very common this time of the year. With all the high power low VHF stations gone it'll be harder to see any stations.


Chuck
 
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