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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNinCA /forum/post/16703348


I believe Bob Hess mentioned on his blog they aren't available locally. The HDTVa is available at Best Buy (not Office Depot) but the price is crazy. Double of online. Both Solid signal and Summit Source will take them back, but for a restocking fee.


Bob, I bought the Sharpshooter largely due to your recommendation. I've found that it needs to be oriented off axis to get KVIE/KXTV. In my case, nearly 45 degrees.


Secondly, I've noticed 2 people on your blog say the HDTVa outpaced the SS-3000. AFAIK, the HDTVa is simply an amplified dipole when on VHF, and should have the same results as other dipoles. I wonder if people could get KVIE/KXTV by simply buying a good inline amplifier at Radio Shack, and plugging it into rabbit ears. That should be as good as an HDTVa, right?


I watched the NAB nightlight show on analog KCRA this morning, and noticed that they specifically mention the RCA flat antennas as a combination VHF/UHF. Funny, because Rory specifically mentioned those as causing problems for KXTV viewers.

I would agree that rabbit ears, especially if amplified, should work for 6 and 10. I know 10 is circularly polarized on the original antenna, which is identical to the old channel 13 antenna that I purchased in 1986. We did this to improve reception on rabbit ears, and the theory is still true for digital. I believe the channel 6 antenna has some amount of vertical component, but I could be wrong. If so, rabbit ears should perform OK for 6 also.


The SS-3000 did work on 6 and 10 at the Thai restaurant, so it does sort of work on VHF.


I have one of the RCA flat antennas in my office. On UHF it is better than rabbit ears, but I have not yet tried it on VHF.


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightowl /forum/post/16702235


I got a CM4228 about 5 years ago, and had an installer do the installation. Total cost out of pocket was 300-400 dollars, and I get a great signal on all local channels from Fair Oaks (Madison and Hazel area). I've never been happier with OTA television as I am since putting that antenna up.

Would you mind giving us "signal strength" readings on all the majors? I am in that same area (Sunset & Kenneth) using a radio shack Yagi, and I saw 6 & 10 go down to 75 (from 95 when they were on UHF). I don't plan to change my antenna, since I have D* too, but I might consider giving the CM4228 a try if I dump D* (or if I see issues when we have a storm). Thanks in advance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras /forum/post/16704765


The vast majority of LP stations in the Sacramento area have construction permits for LP digital. Others have told me that the construction permits are good for 3 years after the date of issuance. So who knows when they might convert and good luck trying to find out.



The only local LP station that I know which had gone digital is KMMW which was analog on 47 but is now digital on 28.


I have a speculation on the last remaining analog station KCSO 33 from the Angels Camp site. KNSO Merced is digital on 5 but has a CP for 11 and they say due to some problems, they won't get there for a couple of months. KCSO had a CP for 11 but then applied for and received a CP for 5 claiming co-channel interference from KNSO on 11. I'm betting KCSO will fire up on 5 once it is vacated by KNSO.


I'd also be surprised if the FCC grants any of the applications on file for new analog LPTV.


Chuck

When I'm in Sac again..I will look on a portable TV for those LP channels
 

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I have two 2007-vintage sets, a 46" upper-end Samsung and a cheapo 37" Toshiba. Also an Alpha-Delta CECB. All work great, but I cannot find on any of them a way to display the incoming RF channel. Is there a generic way to do that on most sets, or is it specific to every brand and model?


I actually got it to display one time on the Toshiba, by accident, but couldn't duplicate it with the remote.


--Ron
 

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Those of you who were at our transmitter site for the shutdown:


Did anyone take pictures? If so, can you email me some? I might want to use them in the blog. I'd especially like to see a picture of the group of you if one exists.


bhess at cbs dot com


Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_h2 /forum/post/16706505


Would you mind giving us "signal strength" readings on all the majors? I am in that same area (Sunset & Kenneth) using a radio shack Yagi, and I saw 6 & 10 go down to 75 (from 95 when they were on UHF). I don't plan to change my antenna, since I have D* too, but I might consider giving the CM4228 a try if I dump D* (or if I see issues when we have a storm). Thanks in advance.

These are the signal strength percentages from my Panasonic Plasma tuner, no spectrum analyzer here. All channels are coming in great, no stuttering, no pixelation, no issues related to reception whatsoever:


3 (DTV 35) - 98%

6 (DTV 9) - 100%

10 (DTV 10) - 98%

13 (DTV 25) - 98%

29 (DTV 48) - 98%

31 (DTV 21) - 66%

40(DTV 40) - 98%

58 (DTV 46) - 98


Not sure why KMAX is such a low number, but my Tivo shows much higher. Still, no dropouts at all on it, before or after the transition.


The biggest challenge I had here was getting the antenna up and over the bluffs. Where we are located, there is a small incline to the top of the bluffs, but once over that, it's a clear LOS to Walnut Grove.
 

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For what it's worth. Not too technical on this end. Had a DB-2 indoor bow-tie style before the switch, lost 6 and 10. Tried a passive flat fish-bone style, not too good. Tried Radio Shack 15-1892 (UFO) and the 15-254(amplified rabbit ears), spotty. Tried plain old rabbit ears (hehe) nothing. On the off-chance, had an old Terk TV10 (flat double loop, passive 300ohm flat lead style) antenna--I caught everything again. I bought two Terk TV5's for my other tvs (similar design, amplified)--catches all again.


Location: Greenback and I-80 area
 

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Guys,


I have a viewer who lives in Newscastle. He says that Channel 13 is up and down in signal strength - unwatchable. He has a long "yagi" antenna with amplifier and receives the other stations just fine, including some SF stations. I have been suggesting he check alignment of his antenna (since a long antenna is very directional) or try purchasing a 4228 because he has hills behind him and the signal may be reflecting off of the hills. He says he receives 12.1 just fine "off the back of the antenna" and I told him that his antenna could be the problem. If he can receive 12.1 off of the back, he may also have reflections off of the hills hitting his antenna. I tried to explain that the 4228 will reject these reflections. He says there is something wrong with our transmitter and that "I am in denial". He is an engineer and thinks he knows what he is doing. I really am trying to help this guy.


Now, with all of that said, could a few of you give me some comparison readings for the local stations and give me the area you are located in? Those that have posted readings since the 12th, I already have. Anyone in the Newscastle area? Perhaps with the data I get from some of you, I can convince this guy that his antenna does need to be aligned or replaced.


Thanks.


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hess /forum/post/16709963


Guys,


I have a viewer who lives in Newscastle. He says that Channel 13 is up and down in signal strength - unwatchable. He has a long "yagi" antenna with amplifier and receives the other stations just fine,

Perhaps 13 is overloading the amp? Suggest he take the amp out of the equation and see what happens.
 

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If I were to put an antenna on the roof here, I would not be caught dead doing it without a rotor, even if I were only looking to receive stations from Walnut Grove. That's what indoor antennas have taught me. I still don't know why the best aim for KMAX on a uhf-only antenna is almost 180 degrees off of what is best for KOVR. There are nearby hills that may have something to do with it.


I'm not the only one seeing a noticeable low signal from KMAX I see. 3 Friday night, 2 Saturday night, and 1 Monday night Giants games on KMAX later, and nothing like the reception meltdown I reported earlier.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hess /forum/post/16709963


Guys,


I have a viewer who lives in Newscastle. He says that Channel 13 is up and down in signal strength - unwatchable. He has a long "yagi" antenna with amplifier and receives the other stations just fine, including some SF stations. I have been suggesting he check alignment of his antenna (since a long antenna is very directional) or try purchasing a 4228 because he has hills behind him and the signal may be reflecting off of the hills. He says he receives 12.1 just fine "off the back of the antenna" and I told him that his antenna could be the problem. If he can receive 12.1 off of the back, he may also have reflections off of the hills hitting his antenna. I tried to explain that the 4228 will reject these reflections. He says there is something wrong with our transmitter and that "I am in denial". He is an engineer and thinks he knows what he is doing. I really am trying to help this guy.


Now, with all of that said, could a few of you give me some comparison readings for the local stations and give me the area you are located in? Those that have posted readings since the 12th, I already have. Anyone in the Newscastle area? Perhaps with the data I get from some of you, I can convince this guy that his antenna does need to be aligned or replaced.


Thanks.


Bob

I looked at the transmitter overlays in Google Earth to see what the signal levels for the New Castle area should be like. Everything from Walnut Grove is very good as long as he lives south of Langs Hill Road. North of there is seriously shadowed and not good. Even farther north the signals pick up again but are spotty.


Engineer or not, I've found that unless you have a spectrum analyzer or a TV with significant diagnostics and the knowledge of what the numbers mean, it's virtually impossible to tell when you can't receive a digital station if the problem is a weak signal and/or multipath.


My spectrum analyzer is out for repair so I had to use the diagnostics on my Sony for relative signal strengths. I use the AGC meter which acts like an inverted signal strength meter. The strongest signal I've ever seen reads 22 and anything above 46 is too weak to recover a picture. Here are the relative strengths this morning. I should note it appeared as though there was an inversion above the KCRA antenna and below all the other Walnut Grove transmitters as the signals were down a bit and multipath was up except for KCRA and K45HC which were stronger than normal. This happens from time to time.


Station - AGC


KCRA - 23

KVIE - 23

KXTV - 25

KOVR - 23

KTFK - 36

KSPX - 23

KMAX - 24

KTXL - 38 (On the digital cliff due to multipath)

KQCA - 27

KCBA - 44 (Very weak distant station but is still solid)


As you can see KOVR is as strong as any station and nearly at maximum. Looks fine to me. Certainly not weak.


I used to troubleshoot all sorts of electronic problems for a living. Maybe I could get a job going around and troubleshooting these non reception problems.



Chuck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNinCA /forum/post/16703348


The SS-2000 (Square Shooter) is notoriously UHF only. Getting KVIE is probably due to a lucky multipath reflection. If you fussed around with the location enough, you may be able to get KXTV.

Thanks for the tip. I tried a VHF hi scanner antenna and it picked up 10.1 and 2 others I already had. Any idea on how to combine my 2 antennas to pick up the channels? I mounted one above the other and used a coax splitter, but only the VHF antenna channels are showing up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by focker /forum/post/16705646


I can vouch for the fact that the Square Shooter does not work at all for me on 6 and 10.

What's your next move? I'm contemplating getting the Winegard GS-2200 but still reading the reviews. Those large boom antennas seem to be doing well for people.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras /forum/post/16712802


I looked at the transmitter overlays in Google Earth to see what the signal levels for the New Castle area should be like. Everything from Walnut Grove is very good as long as he lives south of Langs Hill Road. North of there is seriously shadowed and not good. Even farther north the signals pick up again but are spotty.


Engineer or not, I've found that unless you have a spectrum analyzer or a TV with significant diagnostics and the knowledge of what the numbers mean, it's virtually impossible to tell when you can't receive a digital station if the problem is a weak signal and/or multipath.


My spectrum analyzer is out for repair so I had to use the diagnostics on my Sony for relative signal strengths. I use the AGC meter which acts like an inverted signal strength meter. The strongest signal I've ever seen reads 22 and anything above 46 is too weak to recover a picture. Here are the relative strengths this morning. I should note it appeared as though there was an inversion above the KCRA antenna and below all the other Walnut Grove transmitters as the signals were down a bit and multipath was up except for KCRA and K45HC which were stronger than normal. This happens from time to time.


Station - AGC


KCRA - 23

KVIE - 23

KXTV - 25

KOVR - 23

KTFK - 36

KSPX - 23

KMAX - 24

KTXL - 38 (On the digital cliff due to multipath)

KQCA - 27

KCBA - 44 (Very weak distant station but is still solid)


As you can see KOVR is as strong as any station and nearly at maximum. Looks fine to me. Certainly not weak.


I used to troubleshoot all sorts of electronic problems for a living. Maybe I could get a job going around and troubleshooting these non reception problems.



Chuck

Big help!


Thanks, Chuck.


- Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG7OR /forum/post/16714935


Interesting! I'd like to hear what they have to say. I'll be there. Anyone else?


--Ron

Did you notice the RSVP says KVIE and KXTV will both be there? Since they are on different towers, the only connection I can think of is VHF. Maybe Rory has info.


IMHO, I think VHF hi has BETTER propagation than UHF. I think the problem we are seeing with all the people unable to get KVIE/KXTV probably says more about how rotten so many antennas (Silver Sensor, Square Shooter, etc.) are at VHF.


BTW, as a KVIE member, I am unhappy they didn't send me an e'mail telling me about this seminar.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNinCA /forum/post/16716069


Did you notice the RSVP says KVIE and KXTV will both be there? Since they are on different towers, the only connection I can think of is VHF. Maybe Rory has info.


IMHO, I think VHF hi has BETTER propagation than UHF. I think the problem we are seeing with all the people unable to get KVIE/KXTV probably says more about how rotten so many antennas (Silver Sensor, Square Shooter, etc.) are at VHF.


BTW, as a KVIE member, I am unhappy they didn't send me an e'mail telling me about this seminar.

They sent me an invite because I'm trying to get them to increase their signal back up 66% to what it used to be when they were on VHF-lo. I'm pretty sure that their lower signal is why I don't receive them now, but did on both analog and digital before... $800.00 donation probably helped too!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG7OR /forum/post/16705788


My mom's HDTVa works fine on UHF (has a rather good UHF array) but your description of its VHF configuration is correct. With the extensive experimenting I've done, I doubt that *any* rabbit ears or other single-element VHF antenna, amplified or not, will do the job indoors on KVIE and KXTV when you are struggling with a first floor installation and a lot of path issues (a big building at a seniors complex in Mom's case).

Is your mother also living in Lodi? Maybe 15 miles from the towers? I'm amazed that anything, other than a basement, would block VHF hi from only 15 miles. If you're having problems, KXTV must be getting hammered with angry callers.


Considering how much you've already tried, I can only suggest a different converter box (everyone seems to think the Zenith has terrific reception) or stepping up to mounting a 4228 indoors.


I found this article last month by googling: Solving VHF DTV Reception Problems
 
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