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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I've had a couple complaints about the Sammy DLP PIP implementation and functionality... Think I've found another issue tonight which is very bothersome to me, and would have to be called a serious errata if it really does exist... I'm surprised no one has reported this issue before if it's real, but I suppose it's possible it just hasn't been seen considering the general lack of interest I've gathered most people on the forum have with PIP.


I hooked up my new HTPC to the sammy 15 pin port (VGA) last night and have just had a chance tonight to start really playing around. Was trying to watch a Redsox game here (hope it's not futile again this year. haha) in a PIP overlay window because we all (who care) know that you can't do side-by-side using the VGA input (or DVI, etc...).


So I'm surfing around on my desktop (gyration keyboard and mouse pair are very nice) and decide I'm gonna fire up the sox in a little window in the foreground (read: Sammy PIP overlay). What, no sound? Of course not, 'duh' I say to myself... I've gotta pull up the menu and then navigate to PIP settings before scrolling down to tell the Sammy to switch the audio to the sub window. I do that and voila, I have sound coming to my receiver and then out the speakers. Ummm... For one second, that is, and then it cuts out. I tried repeatedly, and with the DVI interface as the main window also (I have a Bravo D1 hooked up there). Couldn't check the component 2 and 3 input as the main window because I don't have sources hooked up there (not that it matters if the problem exists for the VGA and DVI port anyway).


My 617W with firmware version 2.14 will only spit out approximately 1 second of audio when asked to make the active audio that of the sub window and there's a VGA or DVI source as the main window.... {sigh}


Can some of you guys fire up this configuration and report back if you find the same thing? Please post DLP model and firmware version, too, if you can...


Thanks a bunch. This is looking ugly...



Marc
 

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Wow this does sound like a bug, Marc. Perhaps no one else has discovered it because of your aforementioned lack of interest in PIP to begin with, but also because many might use external receivers in a different way than you do.


If I want to switch audio to the sub-window (or the opposite of the side-by-side windows), I just change my receiver to that device's audio output. I don't have audio running through my DLP and back out to my receiver. My audio goes straight from my devices to the receiver.


But agreed, it does sound like a bug. If/when I have time I'll try this out myself.


Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So I just called Samsung, after sending mail to the customer support group there. I spoke with Steve. I explained the problem to him and he says 'your set needs service'. I ask him if Samsung (or he) is aware of this problem and he says 'no, I haven't heard of it before.' I suggest to him that it might be a good idea to test an HLN617W there at Samsung before sending out local service personnel, so that it can be determined if the problem is just with my set or exists on other 617W TVs as well. I suggest that the existence of this problem on other sets (as well as its manifestation on my set) seems to point toward a firmware problem. Steve says that the service call is needed to determine my firmware version and I respond that I have version 2.14. He immediately says I could only have learned that by going into the service menu and that doing so would void my warranty.


I explain to him that I've touched no settings and just wanted to see what firmware version I have on the set. I explain to him that it's a bit ridiculous to stay home from work for a service call so that the tech can see what version of firmware I have in an attempt to isolate a bug. He repeats again 'you have voided your warranty.' He says that he cannot set me up with a service call, but that he can have a manager speak with me. He takes my information and says that it will take a few days for a manager to get back to me...


My mind jumps back to the thread where people debated as to whether they'd void their warranty by checking the firmware revision... {half-chuckle} We'll see if Samsung sets this situation right, but I am wholly unimpressed at this point with the company's behavior.


Wonder if I'll have to argue with CC when I go to send this set back and take the big Sony RPTV instead...



Marc



Samsung, are you listening?
 

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Wow that's rough.... but wasn't it your cat that stepped all over the remote bringing up some weird menu on the TV that just happened to tell you what version your firmware was??? ;)


I think Samsung should be able to clear that up. If they don't that really stinks and should be a black-eye on their customer service.


Rick
 

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Marc:


Please post the resolution of the SM issue here. I am sure I am not the only one waiting to hear the end to this interesting story.
 

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So does this mean if you get your set professionally adjusted and the tech goes into the service menu, the warranty is void? If not, just tell them you had the set professionally adjusted and saw the firmware revision on the screen. Unless you are supposed to look away because that would void the warranty. :)


Sil
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I will definitely keep the board appraised of what's happening with this. Sil, I won't tell those guys anything but the truth. I wanted to know if I had discrete code support and understood that knowing the firmware version could/would make me more knowledgable with respect to issues with or configuration of the set. I've seen others posting that you can supposedly tweak the set (ostensibly via the SM) if you get an ISF certified tech to do it (and accompanying documentation). This Sammy 'customer support' type (Steve) never raised that qualifier, though, nor did I...


Headed off to CC later today to reexamine the Sony KDP-65WS550...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is no one with a PC or DVI input willing to try this setup and report back on findings? Doesn't seem like a very difficult configuration scenario to just check real quickly... It'd be nice to know if other sets exhibit the same PIP audio behavior with a high def source as the main window...


Anyone?




Edit: Monitor out left and right audio are connected to inputs on my Onkyo receiver... Antenna input is used as sub window (overlay window) on top of main DVI or PC (didn't check component 2 and 3) inputs... Switch audio from main to sub-window using menu PIP configuration...
 

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Works for me. PC>DVI with the PIP Source set as TV (Basic Cable via RF Antenna1). I don't have any other sources feeding audio to the TV (all to the reciever, including the PC/DVI), so I can't really try any other combo.


Oh, BTW - the firmware is 214 (don't tell Samsung!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Interesting info, Lee. Thanks. You tested the same configuration as me, though I have the PC fed into the 15 pin DSUB connector... And same firmware... Hmmmmm...


I won't rat you out on the FW, don't worry... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
bump. Have CC tech coming out this coming Wednesday to check out the problem... Still would like feedback, though, from other DLP owners...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, I've gotten audio from the monitor out connections to my receiver now, and better understand the problem. To begin with I made sure the sound menu configuration was set to Dobly Virtual OFF, BBE OFF, MTS MONO, and auto volume OFF...


If I have the PC window (VGA input) as the main window and then put an antenna window in the foreground, then change the audio to the sub window via the , , configuration options, the following is true:


1.) The TV speaker always functions properly and audio is available for the sub window (even when the main window is the VGA input)...


2.) I *never* get audio out the monitor outputs to my receiver (well, I get one second then it cuts out).


3.) If I leave this exact configuration with the set's audio set to the sub window, but nothing coming out to my receiver (the TV speaker has proper audio, but I've muted it now), I can get audio to the receiver (out the monitor outputs this way: I invoke the then go to then scroll down to the MTS setting. If I change the MTS setting to I immediately start getting proper sound out my monitor outputs. Once I've got the sound back I can cycle through all of the MTS settings and continue to get sound (Not sure if this is true on channels with *don't* provide SAP audio, but it's definitely true for channels that *do* provide SAP).


4.) 3, above, is still true if I start over from the very beginning again, but make sure that the initial MTS setting is stereo instead of mono. The only distinction is that after I change the audio over to the sub window from the main window under the ,, options I do *not* get sound again after toggling the MTS setting from stereo to SAP (not sure if this is true only for channels that provide SAP or not). I do, however, immediately get sound back after cycling the MTS setting from SAP to mono or from stereo to mono.


5.) Anytime the audio is put back to the main window the whole process starts over again and I'm back to a second of audio then gone out the monitor outputs when changing audio to the sub window (audio is automatically returned to the main window when PIP is turned off and only the main window remains onscreen).



BUG.... IMHO.... Thoughts???
 

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Just FYI - In my previous post, the PIP sound was through the TV speaker. I don't have anything plugged into the monitor outs on the TV, which I'm starting to understand is how you are configured (right?).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, Lee. My problem is with the monitor outs. The TV speaker is always functioning properly... I will be very surprised if others don't have this same problem... It doesn't seem like anything electro-mechanical to me. Dollars to donuts it's a firmware problem of some kind, IMO...


Marc
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
By the way, ender21, I don't use any audio inputs on the DLP set at all. I'm only using the monitor outputs to feed my receiver from the TV's internal tuner...
 

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I only use my TV speakers for audio so I can't comment on the audio bug, but it seems to me there are several 'bugs' in PIP:


- Why does turning on PIP force the aspect to Wide?

- Why does PIP not let you choose component sources or DVI/VGA sources?

- Why does PIP not let you swap when you are in DVI/VGA mode and have a PIP with another mode?

- Why can't you use all the PIP modes when you are in DVI/VGA? I really like the side by side mode, but you can't get it in those modes.


I would consider all of these 'bugs' and I would love to see Samsung fix these.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Not sure I'd call all the items you listed 'bugs', schulzpm, but I do agree that Samsung's PIP implementation is quite lousy. One could argue that Samsumg elected these 'limitations' on PIP functionality purposefully...


The audio issue I've alluded to is a bit different, I think...


By the way, there's an older thread I started regarding the Sammy's PIP shortcomings. I don't disagree with your list either...


I can't believe how you have to get into two levels of menus just to switch the audio between the main and sub screens...
 
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