Of course the shot looks better in hlg (it better be true).Joe, thanks for that, but in actuality it looks much better on my HLG enabled OLED than your corrected pix. The colors are much more natural in the HLG version.
No. Vlog and slog can be converted to rec709 to look good on regular screens. Hlg video is very difficult, if not impossible, to convert to look good on rec709 screens. The idea is that, as is, it does not look that bad on rec709 screens, so let's see. This is not a game, it's a major issue of this new standard for HDR.It is true.
I will try your exercise tomorrow. Obviously the 'normal' shot will look considerably better than the HLG shot on a non-HLG display. So at least to me, this is somewhat of a pointless exercise, but I'll play.
True the HLG looks better on a non-HLG display than ungraded Slog/Vlog, but neither looks great. I wouldn't condemn non-graded Slog/Vlog on a display any more than I would HLG on a non-HLG display. HLG obviously needs a targeted display.
RAW video files cannot be displayed on any TV at all. Slog files are not RAW, but I get what you mean.To be clear, if you read what I said, I stated, “True the HLG looks better on a non-HLG display than ungraded Slog/Vlog, but neither looks great. I wouldn't condemn non-graded Slog/Vlog on a display any more than I would HLG on a non-HLG display. HLG obviously needs a targeted display.”
Yes, I understand that Vlog/Slog are not intended for viewing without grading. Obviously.
With that said, I can assure you that HLG on a non-HLG display will not look great and I have no idea who is claiming otherwise. It is NOT intended for viewing on a non-HLG display and Panasonic has not said otherwise.
I can only say what I said before, it will look better than RAW Slog/Vlog...and again, yes, RAW is not intended for ungraded viewing. I’m simply trying to put things in perspective since most of us know what ungraded Slog looks like.
Yes it is intended for viewing on non-HLG displays. It's also wrong to say HLG is not intended for grading. Certainly it's less necessary to grade it than regular log gammas like SLog2/3 or VLog but it absolutely benefits from it.With that said, I can assure you that HLG on a non-HLG display will not look great and I have no idea who is claiming otherwise. It is NOT intended for viewing on a non-HLG display and Panasonic has not said otherwise.
You miss the point that if you’re shooting for your own use and your own viewing, then it can make perfect sense to shoot in HLG. Mark, most of what I shoot and I suspect much of what many others shoot, is not necessarily uploaded for the world to see. Quite the contrary.RAW video files cannot be displayed on any TV at all. Slog files are not RAW, but I get what you mean.
So, if HLG files do not look very good on non HLG displays (we will see how bad), which is what most people have, and HLG files cannot even be edited to ever look good on a non HLG display, why would anyone want to shoot using HLG and be locked in to that specific standard forever? I can see making an HLG video from Slog or Vlog, but it just seems nuts to ever shoot that way except to have a little fun once in a while. I get it, it was a free upgrade so why not have fun?
Btw, my TV was just upgraded through an update to play HLG. And my Shogun Inferno was updated to record HLG from RAW. So, HLG is now a common HDR standard.
Tom, not according to Panasonic. In fact when you switch to the HLG mode on the GH5, you get a clear prompt that cautions you that this is intended for playback on a HLG-enabled TV. Yes, it doesn’t say it ‘won’t’ play on a SDR TV, but it clearly states that the target display should be a HLG capable display.Yes it is intended for viewing on non-HLG displays. It's also wrong to say HLG is not intended for grading. Certainly it's less necessary to grade it than regular log gammas like SLog2/3 or VLog but it absolutely benefits from it.
It's wrong to conclude everything about HLG just from what is seen straight from the camera. Check out this HLG video from LG. It looks fantastic in SDR.
HLG is after all, regular SDR in the lower half of the gamma curve, and log gamma in the upper half, thus hybrid. I would bet if you would tweak the HLG image with in-camera settings where it looked the best it can be in SDR, it would be even better in HLG, instead of trying to do it the other way around.
That was precisely my point in an earlier post.Just tried watching Ken's clips again now on the Sony Xperia XZ Premium's 5.5" 4K HDR screen set to "Standard". They now looked way better and probably more accurate than they did on my older and non-HDR Samsung tablet screen.
There was much better distinction among the fall foilage colors and also among the different shades of greens in the trees and grass at the bottom. The sky was bluer too. What Tom says makes sense since the overall gamma level appeared to be more or less correct with nicer, more vibrant colors, and highlights, midtones and shadows looking natural without clippings or being flattened.
I don't know if the HLG meta-data were somehow tagged onto the clips to flag a capable display device such as the one on the XZ Premium or the tagging was built into the YouTube app so that the same display that can play both HLG and regular Rec.709 can display both kinds of videos correctly without the viewers having to make any adjustments.
It looks to me if you have an HLG or HDR capable viewing device and you watch the materials via the YouTube app, things are all rosy and effortless. If you don't, the results can be varied though not to the extent of ungraded log gamma videos. But what I really want to find out is how much we can do in post to get HLG videos like Ken's to look as close to normal as they can on standard non-HLG or non-HDR viewing devices. Or if it can't be done?