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But the spreadsheet doesn't list tweaks specific to 302. What is the chance we are going to see the level of tweaking done with 214 on 302? There are still a lot of people getting the upgrade and getting 302 boards, but I think the hardcore tweakers with actual equipment for the job aren't going to be moving to level 3 anytime soon it looks like.


It sounds like using 214 tweaks on 302 is giving mixed results, besides the fact that the two versions don't even have all the same settings.


I guess I'm in the same boat I was with newer firmware on my set pre-upgrade--and good tweaks for that version of firmware never came. I guess I eyeball it or go for ISF :(
 

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Turls,


I feel you pain.


I had a old 204 board and could not find any good tweaks, today I just got the 302 board and am not able to find any good tweaks either :(


Jeff
 

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I just got my new 302 board installed today and tried the 214 tweaks listed in the spreadsheet. Didn't help at all - a real green tint. The baord did fix my jitter issue I had with a SA 3100HD digital cable box.


Some specific tweaks woould be great - I really don't have the time or an Avia disk to do a trial and error right now.
 

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My opinion...the tweaking should never have strayed from where it began, tweaks to improve shadow detail, black level, and gray scale tracking, through adjustments to Y_Offset, turning off black level expansion BSTPO, BKAKOU, Sub_Ct(DDP), and gamma. Those worked for just about everybody who tried them.


Once we got into tweaking the colors and delays, we let the genie out of the bottle. Those tweaks don't, and never did work the same for all sets.


My $0.02
 

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I would be happy to get the tweaked values for brightness, sharpness color, tint etc from someone who has used Avia or Digital Video Essentials for the 302 board. As far as SM options I have just set gamma to 0 and that has helped my blacks a lot.


Jeff
 

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So are you saying even with 302, I should be ok with just those tweaks? I have to admit I never tried tweaking my last version (although I did use the tweaks from here on my first set), but I understand you still have to do DVE after I'm all done.


But since I'm on a different version than where the hardcore tweakers did theirs, maybe I'd be better off tweaking with DVE before I mess with anything OOTB.


Oh, and I thought you couldn't even turn off black level expansion on some of the levels of firmware?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Roper
My opinion...the tweaking should never have strayed from where it began, tweaks to improve shadow detail, black level, and gray scale tracking, through adjustments to Y_Offset, turning off black level expansion BSTPO, BKAKOU, Sub_Ct(DDP), and gamma. Those worked for just about everybody who tried them.


Once we got into tweaking the colors and delays, we let the genie out of the bottle. Those tweaks don't, and never did work the same for all sets.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by turls
So are you saying even with 302, I should be ok with just those tweaks? I have to admit I never tried tweaking my last version (although I did use the tweaks from here on my first set), but I understand you still have to do DVE after I'm all done.


But since I'm on a different version than where the hardcore tweakers did theirs, maybe I'd be better off tweaking with DVE before I mess with anything OOTB.


Oh, and I thought you couldn't even turn off black level expansion on some of the levels of firmware?
Matt, by "ok" with just those tweaks, I assume you mean "safe" with just those tweaks. I would think you would be safe. Satisfied? You have to be the judge. I think the DVE is your insurance policy for a good result. My concern is directed to the people who would just copy the RGB gain, offset, delay numbers into their TV because someone else got a good result with them. If every tv was identical, then only 1 set of parameters would satisfy us all. But the reality, is that every set has some similarities, but remains unique unto itself. The early complaints about this set, if you go waay back, concerned poor shadow detail. Some of us, including me, were very skeptical that any improvement was possible. But the Houston gang was the first to come up with Y_Offset, BKAKOU, BSTPO tweaks, that admittedly were significant improvements. But the gang didn't stop there. They began using instruments like the Milori Color Facts and Senncore to evaluate the grayscale tracking and gamma, and came up with improvements there. And they didn't stop, coming up with new values for RGB gain, offset and delay. And those were the settings that we disagreed on. Just loading Supertoyz', or Ken Land's numbers cause some people (me included) to get color casts, orange, green, yellow, red.


The problem with colors, is there are two main variables, and now maybe three, compounded because by now, everyone is working with different firmware. But the first two, are the color temperature that the lamp burns at, due to power supply variances and bulb variances, and the offset in the color wheel.


And I just want to caution about irrational exuberance as Mr. Greenspan would call, the results from these tweaks. At best, the improvement is going to be modest, although many have called them vast.
 
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