[willieG]

I'm new to this stuff but plan on getting a 507, if I can find one


From what I understand, the 507 contains the Faroudja 3:2 technology to convert interlaced video to progressive video. Does this mean I don't need to buy a progressive DVD player in order to get progressive DVD video? Are there any advantage to having a progressive DVD player anyway?


Thanks,

Bill

 

[gpflepsen]

Does the 507 and 437 automatically detect if an input is film or video and apply the 3:2 without our knowing it?


I'm kind of lost when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the workings inside the box. Example, I know what 3:2 is, but when is it used and by what, the DVD player or TV?


I have a progressive Tosh DVD, should I let the TV do all the signal hockus pockus and feed it movie mode from the DVD?


What is Film Mode in the picture settings?

 

[KenLand]

The Faroudja algorithms in the 507 will auto detect which is appropriate by monitoring the signal. It is known to be about the best there is.


Ken

 

[MDRiggs]

Quote:

Originally posted by gpflepsen I'm kind of lost when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the workings inside the box. Example, I know what 3:2 is, but when is it used and by what, the DVD player or TV?

The 3:2 pulldown technique must be applied in order to convert the film frame rate of 24 fps to the video frame rate of 30 fps. So any material on video that originated as film will have 3:2 pulldown. To prevent some really ugly artifacts, it is important that any device deinterlacing a film-originated video signal detect 3:2 pulldown and handle it correctly during the deinterlacing process. The 3:2 pulldown detection and compensation must occur in the device doing the deinterlacing.

Quote:

I have a progressive Tosh DVD, should I let the TV do all the signal hockus pockus and feed it movie mode from the DVD?

Whichever one has the better deinterlacer.

Quote:

[B}What is Film Mode in the picture settings? [/b]

Usually this is just a preset that applies certain settings for color temperature, contrast, black level, and so forth.

 

[willieG]

So to anwser my original question, I guess I don't need a progressive scan DVD player 'cause the 507 will to the 3:2 pulldown for me.


Right?

 

[Czapster]

Can anyone recommend a progressive-scan DVD player which does a BETTER job than the Faroudja DCDI built into the Samsung DLP TVs?


I have a new Samsung 437 model and an entry- or mid-grade Sony DVD player from '98 (I think it is the S-300?), connected via S-Video. The Sony DVD does not have component video outs, so S-Video is the best I can do. Overall, I am pretty happy with the DVD performance I am getting, but I am wondering if its worthwhile for me to upgrade my DVD player to get the most out of the TV set.

 

[turls]

I know in this thread it has become the consensus, but I didn't think it was a foregone conclusion you would most likely be better off with an interlaced player and letting the 507 work its magic anyway.


I think the question should be "are there any progressive players that do a worse job than the DCDi in the 507". It isn't as simple as just deinterlacing the picture on quality DVD players. I'm only planning on depending on the the DCDi chip for SD sources.


Also, the 480i/480p input and the 480p/720p/1080i inputs on the 507 are fundamentally different. So it depends which input you put it in. Samsung I guess recommends the 480i/480p for all DVD input.

 

[mostlyundecided]

I just got HDTV via comcast today for my HLM507W. They hooked the HD box (magnavox 5100) to component 2 (dvd player is on Component 1 because that one it for 480i/480p). The label on the component 2 input on the 507 reads "480/720/1080"..here is the problem...I only can tune the HDTV stations, the other stations give me a blue screen that says "component 2 (then next line) Mode not supported" in red, sometimes it is yellow.

Finally the cable guy just ran a coaxial out of the hd box and into the coaxial antenna. I have to change from component 2 to antenna if I want to watch regular tv, and then back to component 2 if I want to watch HDTV. Is this how all HDTVs work? I have a Samsung technician coming out Friday as my picture has been terrible reds and greens are not right and when I use any digital cable box the signal looks "digitized" Shadows have square pixels you can see in them, and closeups look fine, but if they pan back or if it is a shot of the person taken from 10-15 foot away they look blury and their features are not good. I think my set needs some serious tweaking but other than playing with the "custom" settings under the picture menu, I don't know what to do...most of the terms you use are foreign to me. I am definitely a newbie.


I noticed the salesman switching the tv from component to antenna when I kept asking to see an analog picture then an HD picture then a dvd picture and I went back and forth a couple of times and I asked him why he was switching the settings everytime he went to HD and he said that particular set was just set up screwy and I wouldn't have that problem - I think he lied. I think the component inputs can only process a 480/720/1080 signal and anything below 480 you get a "mode not supported" message. I couldn't get Samsung to admit this I got an "I don't know call service" from their tech support and the service guy said he'd have to make some phone calls. Anyone getting normal tv through the component hookup?


Is there an easy way for me to tweak it?


I plan on showing the Samsung Service guy this thread when he comes Friday and hopefully I will get someone who has a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Bob Dycus]

I have a progressive scan DVD player connected to one HD input that always presents 480P to the TV.

On the second HD input is a Dish 6000. When it is in HD mode, it will upconvert 480I SD signals to 1080I and send them to the TV. The TV always sees 1080I.

It sounds like your cable box does not do the upconversion of 480I to 1080I. Talk to your cable guy and find out why it doesn't.

 

[poppa]

Quote:

Originally posted by mostlyundecided I just got HDTV via comcast today for my HLM507W. They hooked the HD box (magnavox 5100) to component 2 (dvd player is on Component 1 because that one it for 480i/480p). The label on the component 2 input on the 507 reads "480/720/1080"..here is the problem...I only can tune the HDTV stations, the other stations give me a blue screen that says "component 2 (then next line) Mode not supported" in red, sometimes it is yellow. Finally the cable guy just ran a coaxial out of the hd box and into the coaxial antenna. I have to change from component 2 to antenna if I want to watch regular tv, and then back to component 2 if I want to watch HDTV. Is this how all HDTVs work?

That isn't how mine works. I just got an HD sidecar made by motorola (I think, I'm not at home now), and it works very well. The regular cable box outputs (SD channels) go into the analog inputs of the HD sidecar. There is a separate digital input for HDTV. The HD sidecar outputs go to Component 2, only. The HD sidecar is smart enough to know whether it it receiving an HD signal or regular SD digital; if it is regular SD digital is "upconverts" it and sends it out the Component outputs. I don't have to switch anything anywhere when I'm going between HD channels and SD channels. (I'm only getting HBOHD right now, we're supposed to get the other channels in January.)


It is even smart enough for switch between digital sound (Dolby 5.1) and analog inputs, and will use the digital over analog when available.


Picture quality has been great. Mine never showed anything like you've been experiencing.


I'm using ATT Broadband. I have to say, they really cleaned up their act and customer service has generally been very good. Although their tech wasn't very experienced with the new HD boxes and I had to help get it wired correctly.

 

[mostlyundecided]

I think it was the tech's first installation of HDTV, so I am hoping he just didn't know what he was doing. They are sending out another tech. plus I have a Samsung service guy coming out Friday. Here's something I am really worried about: I'd like the Samsung service person to "tweak" my settings, I copied the suggested tweaks off this board...how do I know I can trust the guy to do it right? That he is knowledgable enough to know what he is doing and not mess up my set? Is there some qualification I can ask if he has?


I could probably figure out the tweaks myself, but wondered if playing in my tv's service menu might void my warranty.


Anyway, I sure hope the "digitized" effect I see on the digital cable can be fixed - my dad looked at it today and I showed him the movement I saw in the whites in the picture - he said it was called a "MOIRE" effect??? he wasn't sure of the spelling...I don't get that problem when I play dvd's on my samsung progressive scan on this set - as a matter of fact the dvd player puts out as good a picture as the HDTV signal I am getting from the cable! Is that the way it should be - dvd is better than digital cable and as good as HDTV?


Maybe my set is just messed up - I hope they can fix it, and if they can't I will be still be within my 30days and will be talking to my salesman about getting a different set - maybe I should just take the dive and get plasma.


Linda

 

[MDRiggs]

Quote:

Originally posted by turls I'm only planning on depending on the the DCDi chip for SD sources.

The DCDi chip doesn't work on anything other than 480i signals.

 

[MDRiggs]

Quote:

Originally posted by mostlyundecided I just got HDTV via comcast today for my HLM507W. They hooked the HD box (magnavox 5100) to component 2 (dvd player is on Component 1 because that one it for 480i/480p). The label on the component 2 input on the 507 reads "480/720/1080"..here is the problem...I only can tune the HDTV stations, the other stations give me a blue screen that says "component 2 (then next line) Mode not supported" in red, sometimes it is yellow.

For some strange reason, Component 1 on the Samsung accepts only 480i or 480p, while Component 2 accepts only 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

 

[MDRiggs]

DVD should be better than digital cable but not as good as HDTV.

 

[mostlyundecided]

I figured out what the cable guy did wrong. If you turn off the Magnavox 5100 hdtv cable box, then hit "menu" on the cable remote, you get a menu on the tv screen, the third item on the menu is "4:3 override" and you can toggle it from 480i to 480p or OFF. If it is set to 480i I get the "mode not supported" message, if it is set to 480p or OFF *BINGO* I can tune any channel no more "mode not supported on non-hdtv stations! You need to set it for 480p, if you set it to OFF the wide/normal aspect setting does not work right.


If you cannot read the onscreen menu because it is distorted which happens if it is set to 480i, you can use the LED on front of the 1500 cable box you will see that you can toggle through the menu items and I was able to make the change that way when I tried it (although if you tune to an HDTV channel before turning off the cable box the menu will not distort onscreen).


Now all I have to do is work on tweaking the picture quality and get myself down to one remote. I am guessing as comcast installs everyone with HDTV this week this problem will recur with other installs. Hopefully they will find the fix here.


Thanks for your help!

Linda

 

[turls]

Quote:

Originally posted by MDRiggs The DCDi chip doesn't work on anything other than 480i signals.

I meant non-DVD SD sources. I believe there is a difference between what you can get from a DVD with the right components vs. what you get from DirecTV for example. A good DVD player does more than "just" deinterlace. There is a difference where in the signal path the deinterlacing is done, especially in the case of DVD.

 

[Doug Deacon]

We have a 437 and a Phillips DVD724 (Walmart special progressive scan player) connected to Component 1. Initially we set the player for PS output, but weren't totally happy with the PQ, even after doing all the tweaks.


I then had the same thought as WillieG, "If the Faroudja 1220 is so good, why am I bypassing it? That little chip cost me more than the whole DVD player. Why not use it?"


Turned off progressive scan output. Plugged in 'Fellowship of the Ring'. WOO-HOO!!!


Large greenish blotches became mountainsides with trees and rocks. Areas of seemingly little color suddenly had color. Shadow detail improved. I'm not talking subtle differences, we saw major improvements. Curiously enough, artifacting stayed about the same, not much but still some here and there. But there were no negatives. Every PQ aspect was equal or improved, often dramatically.


I'm not saying that a good PS DVD player wouldn't be even better. I don't have any way to know. But feeding a 437 (or presumably a 507) with an interlaced signal and letting the TV do the work produces a far better picture than what you'll see from a cheap progressive player. Either buy a good PS player with a full refund trial period or don't bother.


My 2 cents. Enjoy!

 

[Czapster]

If I want to send a 480i DVD signal to the Samsung so that I utilize the Faroudja chip, is there any quality difference between sending it 480i via a Component connection or 480i via an S-Video connection?


Currently I am sending the Samsung 480i via S-Video, and I am wondering if it is worthwhile to upgrade to a DVD player with Component outs if I still want to use the Faroudja chip. Thanks in advance!

 

[pghflyer]

Component outs should produce a better picture than s-video. I think the order of worst -> best picture is:


composite (the one yellow video out) -> s-video -> component (three separate colors - blue, green, and red - all for video)

 

[willieG]

Doug,


Thanks for your response. I finally have an answer to my original question!


I'm glad to hear about your great results.


I don't have a 507 or a DVD player yet but when I do I'll post my results.


Thanks.