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Samsung DLP: If you've had or understand color wheel issues, please respond

1212 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by tecman, Sep 11, 2003

turls

Discussion Starter · Sep 9, 2003

I've got the high pitched whine on the hard drive motor-like Samsung DLP color wheel. Not all the time, and I can live with it, but I don't want to.

I believe I remember reading that Samsung likes to treat these as modular repairs, with three main parts: lamp/bulb, circuit board, light engine (which includes the DMD, lens, and color wheel).

If I got this fixed, nobody is touching my DMD because it should be unrelated to the problem. I live in fear of dead mirrors. My 2nd set had issues with dead mirrors (well not exactly, but for all practical purposes).

Will Samsung just fix the color wheel? If they send the whole assembly could a decent tech pick out just certain parts to replace and just replace the color wheel, or even better just the motor?

(I probably won't get a "decent tech" to my house anyway, but with the hopefully imminent circuit board upgrade there is a chance I could bundle the issues together with the upgrade)

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1 - 18 of 18 Posts

pspun

· #2 · Sep 9, 2003

Matt, sorry to hear you have another problem with your set! (Have you thought of moving to, say, Chicago?) I think the chance of getting stuck mirror is very small (unless your first name is Matt

). I would think you would have more chance of getting other problems if you only replace part of the light engine. The light engine is produced by TI and I don't know if anyone will replace just the color wheel for you.

turls

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 9, 2003

Thanks for the response, after I posted this, I thought I saw a post from you in a thread I had read previously giving MTBF for the different components (20,000 hours for the color wheel, 100,000 hours for the DMD, etc). I thought you said that the color wheel could be replaced. I guess you meant the whole unit.

Seems kind of silly to integrate a part with a 100,000 hour MTBF with a part with a 20,000 hour MTBF (if those are the actual numbers). I guess at that point it is likely out of warranty and perhaps nobody but the end user cares . . .

Unfortunately, with my cynicism and bad luck with electronics in general, not just this TV (and inability to get in-home service), I'd much rather keep a set that makes irritating noise maybe 1 out of 5 uses than a set that has a non-broken in DMD that could develop problems.

I know it might be rare percentage wise, but bad DMD's have been reported dozens of times here, and it isn't clear how long Samsung will warrant ones that only have a bad mirror or two. Even one bad mirror stands out like a sore thumb.

If I knew an extended warranty (which I'm pretty sure I will be able to get in-house) would cover the entire millions of pieces of the DMD, I would probably be more likely to do it, but I doubt if I get that assurance.

Of course the other alternative, but it would really take a wiz, is maintenance to the color wheel that might get rid of the noise. WD-40, anyone?

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Rfutscher

· #4 · Sep 9, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by pspun
......

I think the chance of getting stuck mirror is very small .............

I was in the local Best Buy the other day and saw a stuck mirror. I couldn't watch the set because of that one super white pixel. I was talking to a friend and he saw it months ago. Does it take that long to get it fixed or does it take more than pixel for warranty repair?

askewed

· #5 · Sep 10, 2003

I have the color wheel thing. They are doing it the same time the upgrade happens. It's (from a Samsung engineer) a problem with the original lubricant that was used??? I'm still arguing against having the entire housing replaced... It's a warranty item.

turls

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 10, 2003

My set isn't as old as many others-so I wonder if this means a lot of people might be looking forward to this then. I have about 1500 hours on the set.

If you have any luck not getting the whole housing replaced, please let me know. I didn't even mention the risk of new geometry issues with a whole new housing, but I sure hope they are past most of that at this point.

Quote:

Originally posted by askewed
It's (from a Samsung engineer) a problem with the original lubricant that was used??? I'm still arguing against having the entire housing replaced... It's a warranty item.

pspun

· #7 · Sep 10, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by turls
Thanks for the response, after I posted this, I thought I saw a post from you in a thread I had read previously giving MTBF for the different components (20,000 hours for the color wheel, 100,000 hours for the DMD, etc). I thought you said that the color wheel could be replaced. I guess you meant the whole unit....

Yes, Matt, you are right, the color wheel can be replaced, but if I am under warrenty and they want to replace the light engine instead of just the color wheel, I would let them. I think it is easier to replace the whole light engine then just the color wheel.

mike_pro

· #8 · Sep 10, 2003

Well, you habe to consider that there is MTBF, and then Matt's Time Between Failures.

turls

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 10, 2003

I like that one. I might use that one. The interesting thing is with all my issues, I've never lost actual use of the set yet. Knock on wood.

turls

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 10, 2003

Details would be appreciated. Do you know that someone has had this done? I would be real interested to know if Samsung sent them the whole assembly or just the wheel part.

I know it might be easier to do the whole part, but it would also be easier to correct just the broken parts than making multiple trips possibly fixing what wasn't originally broken.

Quote:

Originally posted by pspun
Yes, Matt, you are right, the color wheel can be replaced

pspun

· #11 · Sep 10, 2003

Matt, I seem to remember someone had the light engine replaced after having the same high-pitch sound coming from the color wheel problem. This was reported many months ago on a powerbuy set, if I remember correctly. I don't think anyone has reported having the color wheel replaced.

tecman

· #12 · Sep 10, 2003

There is just a color wheel assembly, p/n BP96-00250A, which consists of the wheel, motor and a mount. There is actually a section in the service manual, "5-10-3 Color Wheel: When Wheel Noise Occurs." It goes through 4 steps of disassembly to replace the colorwheel assembly. So it appears to be a developed proceedure. Whether the service decision is to do that or replace the entire light engine is up to Samsung. It's their money.

paul

bratwurst

· #13 · Sep 10, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by turls
... If I got this fixed, nobody is touching my DMD because it should be unrelated to the problem. I live in fear of dead mirrors. My 2nd set had issues with dead mirrors (well not exactly, but for all practical purposes)

I was concerned too about mirror-failure, it seemed somewhat "obvious" to me that something mechanical, flipping 1,000's of times/second would fail shortly. I went to dlp.com and did some reading, and while the site is, of course, a promo for the technology, my fears were put aside by reading some of their tech white papers. One you might want to look at is: http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/im...s/135_Myth.pdf

I learned a lot about the technology from the site, and really don't fear the DMD failing now. I'm much more concerned with the motor life, and of course, bulb life since some people are reporting failures at less than 1000 hours.

Brats

turls

Discussion Starter · #14 · Sep 11, 2003

Thanks for another insightful post tecman. I have the waste-of-money July 2002 version of the DLP service manual and I have no such section. Do you mind me asking what service manual you are looking at? The one I have is basically worthless so I'll buy another one if it has actual service procedures--but I want to make sure I get the right one.

Even if they sent the whole light engine you'd think you could pick out parts. But of course it would be up to the tech and Samsung.

Quote:

Originally posted by tecman
There is just a color wheel assembly, p/n BP96-00250A, which consists of the wheel, motor and a mount. There is actually a section in the service manual, "5-10-3 Color Wheel: When Wheel Noise Occurs." It goes through 4 steps of disassembly to replace the colorwheel assembly. So it appears to be a developed proceedure. Whether the service decision is to do that or replace the entire light engine is up to Samsung. It's their money.

turls

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 11, 2003

Thanks for trying to reassure me, but it isn't going to work

I've seen it myself twice, besides what I've read here (one was just today on one of the newer models at a Ultimate Electronics). And I've also read the article about LCD bad pixels at Tom's hardware. And besides that Samsung has reportedly starting to put disclaimers in about bad mirrors in with new DLP's. Sorry I don't think much is going to change my mind.

In fact, my 2nd set did NOT have a bad DMD, but it might as well have. I had different bad pixels every time I turned on the set. So there is obviously more than one point of failure too.

Quote:

Originally posted by bratwurst
I learned a lot about the technology from the site, and really don't fear the DMD failing now. I'm much more concerned with the motor life, and of course, bulb life since some people are reporting failures at less than 1000 hours.

bratwurst

· #16 · Sep 11, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by turls
Thanks for trying to reassure me, but it isn't going to work

Blast! There goes my commission from TI and Samsung.

Actually, like I said, I'm no expert, but the pdf's halted my fears. But if you've seen these problems I'm certainly not going to push that there aren't mirror problems with DLP. I hope not, as a new owner of one.

Quote:

In fact, my 2nd set did NOT have a bad DMD, but it might as well have. I had different bad pixels every time I turned on the set. So there is obviously more than one point of failure too.

Expand on that, if you will. From the tech-reading I've done "bad pixels" can only come from a failing DMD, or perhaps (but doubtful) other abberation in the product (e.g., obscured optics, perhaps the driving electronics). What exactly did you see?

Brats

turls

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 11, 2003

I had from a few to many dozens of "bad" mirrors, and they moved around. Since bad ones came and went, it had to be something in the electronics, but since the set was just replaced because of my distance from authorized servicers (it was like 3 weeks into the set use if I remember correctly), I have no idea what part of the signal path had the problem. It might have been a candidate for a TI evaluation. Maybe that was done, but I doubt it.

They were always in the bottom third of the picture or so.

tecman

· #18 · Sep 11, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by turls
Thanks for another insightful post tecman. I have the waste-of-money July 2002 version of the DLP service manual and I have no such section. Do you mind me asking what service manual you are looking at? The one I have is basically worthless so I'll buy another one if it has actual service procedures--but I want to make sure I get the right one.

Even if they sent the whole light engine you'd think you could pick out parts. But of course it would be up to the tech and Samsung.

The manual I have is "DLP Projection Television, Chassis: L62A(N) Rev.2"

When I ordered the manual I specifically asked for the manual for the HLN series. The manual I got only listed HLM models. That manual was nothing more than schematics and parts lists. No real info. I complained to J&J. First I was told that there was only one manual and it covered all models. After a call or 2 more I found out that there WAS an HLN manual. Finally they sent me one overnight n/c, sine the order paperwork did list "HLN".

This newer manual is a real manual with quite a bit of useful info for the technically inclined.

paul

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