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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm starting this thread in the hopes that others will post ANY methods they have found that improve the Samsung DLP when using these specific sources (as opposed to DVD 480i, DVD 480p, or HD). Several members have reported very poor performance with both satellite and cable while others report "near DVD" quality.


Before I get chastized:

- I know the source is important and most cable is poor and DirecTV is overcompressed.

- I know my DLP will not look as good as a CRT.

- DVD and HD look great on most sets.


If you are like me, most material in the near future will be good ol' 480i NTSC. I would like to have the best possible picture.


Some examples:


- What SM tweaks have the most impact on 480i?


- Are there particular UM settings you go to for 480i?


- Best viewed using ANT, S-Vid, Comp, DVI, or PC inputs?


- Is DirecTV or Dish better than cable since the signal is more consistent channel by channel?


- Analog cable better since there is no compression?


- Any pre-conditioning or conversion you can do to upgrade or control the signal (HTPC or via settop box or other)?


Anyway, I hope there are some posts here. It is easy to get overloaded with all the 507 DLP info on this board.
 

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I'd be curious about this, too. I haven't bought a set yet, and I keep bouncing back and forth between the Sony LCD and the Samsung DLP. One real difference, in my observation, is the performance on standard cable - the Sony seems MUCH better than the Samsung on this.


Comments?
 

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I see the all the same flaws on my Sony XBR direct view. SD looks better on first glance because it's not magnified so much, and the image is bright from every angle. Compression and scaling artifacts from the source are still there but masked behind an aperture grill, digital to analog processing, and lower resolution.


What about those vertical stripes of R,G and B on CRTs? If you hadn't accepted those as inherent in CRT shadow masks, would you not call that a fault that masks image details?


What about those not-so-fine-pitch lenticular screens on rear projection CRTs? They definitely break up the picture and limit resolution. Would you not call that a flaw if you had not come to accept it as inherent?


If you examine closely, or put them side by side, EVERY flaw visible in the DLP is apparent in the XBR, but muted better. Color banding? Yep! Dithering? Yes! Blockiness, posterization, shimmering squares? All there.


The Sammy, having no digital to analog filtering, reveals all source flaws brutally.


Now ask yourself why it looks so good on HDNet 1080i?
1080i Screen Shot
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tom,

I saw this pic on another post. Awesome, to say the least. I am just hoping that folks will post on this thread anything they have seen that makes 480i look better.


Example - I am experimenting with comparing cable run through TS160 DVI with regular ANT input. I actually find ANT input better as I seem to be picking up some extra noise somewhere on the cable-TS160-DVI path.


Example 2 - I had to follow my cable back to the drop and remove the splitter such that I had the strongest signal possible. I was impressed by how much improvement I got on the weaker stations.


I know this is simple stuff to most but sometimes it is the simple stuff that kills ya.


Another poster started a thread on DLPs as HTPCs. I view this thread as a sister thread. I'm trying to get my 507 to be a workhorse:

- Watchable conventional TV (480i via cable/sat/ota)

- Home theater (DVD or HD source)

- PC (gaming, windows, internet, etc)\\


Not looking for perfection on any of the 3, just trying to get the best. Right now, watchable conventional TV is the weakest for me. Just saying the signal is bad, while true, is not good enough. I think it can be better. I'm game for just about anything!
 

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Having seen lots of forum traffic on this topic, and having seen (and about to have delivered) these sets, I'd like to ask anyone posting information here about their frame of reference.


I'm coming from a Mits 50" RPTV, and have, I think, a very different expectation on DirecTV PQ on the Samsung, than say, someone coming from (or comparing to) a 32" XBR direct view... I think my current 50" has a great picture for DirecTV, but in my experience, people who see it for the first time (coming from smaller sets), sometimes think it looks 'like crap'. Yeah, that may be valid, but it's not the set's fault...


Not claiming that all the reported crappy pictures are due to expectations, I'd just like to be able to separate them out...


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jautor,

This is definitely a problem for me as my previous set is a 36" 4:3 direct view. So I have to get used to:

RPTV

Widescreen TV

DLP

I've worked around RPTVs, so they are not completely foreign.

I knew coming into this to expect degradation on SD material, but we should still try to make it as good as possible? Most of the complaints I have read are 480i related.
 

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Quote:
Example - I am experimenting with comparing cable run through TS160 DVI with regular ANT input. I actually find ANT input better as I seem to be picking up some extra noise somewhere on the cable-TS160-DVI path.
Analog cable SHOULD be better, if run directly into the TV set's own cable tuner, rather than run through the TS160 where it undergoes an otherwise extra analog to digital conversion.


Not only that, but the TS160 scaling modes are not as good as what the tv provides for analog cable. You lose panorama for example, when you view TS160 via DVI. Not a slam against DVI. Far from that, since DVI is best for DirecTV satellite. But not cable.


Another reason for bringing cable directly into the TV set, bypassing the TS160 is you can have picture-in-picture with cable and satellite. Run the cable into the TS160 and you lose that feature too.
 

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Quote:
If you examine closely, or put them side by side, EVERY flaw visible in the DLP is apparent in the XBR, but muted better. Color banding? Yep! Dithering? Yes! Blockiness, posterization, shimmering squares? All there.
Tom,


I have to disagree with you on this. The Sony 61HS30 (61") HDTV that I sold, easily outperformed the Samsung DLP for DSS. I never noticed any of the things you listed above until I got the DLP.


-ftlee
 

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Tom:

I understand why analog cable would look better fed to the 507's cable tuner. For HD, we should run component out of the cable box to Component 1 on the 507. For digital cable, what is the optimum connection type and path?

Thanks.
 

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437 owner here. I'm running digital cable through an ATI TV card and then using dscaler to run the picture. Right now I'm using the RGB connection but will be shifting to DVI this wekend. I've done zero tweaking to the set yet, but cable pq is no worse than it was when I was running this same setup through a 21 inch computer monitor. Low stations are worse than higher stations, with some of the higher movie channels looking great. If you are not used to seeing a crappy signal displayed on an extremely powerful monitor, it can certainly take some time to get used to, but the high performance seen with hd material is worth the trade off.


-Kilroy
 

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Kilroy,


I'm thinking of doing the same thing if I purchase the DLP. Can you give me some details on your setup? Example which ATI card, which video capture card, CPU, etc.


Have you tried connecting cable to the set without the HTPC?


Cheers


mg
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Roper
Analog cable SHOULD be better, if run directly into the TV set's own cable tuner, rather than run through the TS160 where it undergoes an otherwise extra analog to digital conversion.


Not only that, but the TS160 scaling modes are not as good as what the tv provides for analog cable. You lose panorama for example, when you view TS160 via DVI. Not a slam against DVI. Far from that, since DVI is best for DirecTV satellite. But not cable.


Another reason for bringing cable directly into the TV set, bypassing the TS160 is you can have picture-in-picture with cable and satellite. Run the cable into the TS160 and you lose that feature too.
Purchasing the 507w has been completed. I'm trying to decide if I want to get the TS160, but have been hampered because of the posts about DSS compression and their effects. Now, this thread has me turned around again.


Do I understand you correctly that my 507w will actually give me a better picture using "analog" cable as opposed to SD cable because there is a lot less compressed signal?


If this is correct, would the recommended 507w UM/SM tweak "values" provided elsewhere in this forum be applicable to this analog setup?


Thanks,

Craig
 

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Analog cable wasn't always that good by my reckoning. If the signal is strong, it is good. If not..


The main advantage to analog cable is no digital macro blocking, mpeg compression artifacts. The disadvantage, ghosting, snow, poor signal to noise, lack of features and interactivity.


In my area, no HDTV channels on cable, and it's hard for me to pick up over the air HDTV. So Satellite, HDNet, HBO-HD, Show-HD is the game for me.


It just depends. I prefer DSS.
 

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I hope somebody can answer RocketCityHog's question because I have the same cable service he does. I saw the GWII and 507 at the local Tweeters and they looked great for all sources except analog cable, which was so bad it scared me. It was painful to watch. Tweeters is splitting their signal N factorial ways so maybe that was the problem, but now I'm worried about what I'll see at home. Yes, yes, I know GIGO, but some settings must be better than others. Do the suggested SM tweaks also help with standard cable?


-Gent
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Roper
Analog cable SHOULD be better, if run directly into the TV set's own cable tuner, rather than run through the TS160 where it undergoes an otherwise extra analog to digital conversion.
If you're using the DVI connection, the 160 is not adding an extra A/D step; with an analog connection the set has to do an A/D conversion. You get one either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the pic, Tom. Mine looks that good as well on Knology on SOME channels. My biggest problem is consistency (same with all analog cable). Most of the inconsistency is in color - saturation levels, flesh tones, etc.


Do you get this good a picture across all channels? I'm not talking about content differences - I know channels showing lots of motion will not be as good as talking heads. (CNN headline news and shopping channels are made for the 507). Do you find yourself didling with the color adjustment when you change between SD channels?


I'll be going the DirecTV route as soon as my triple LNB dish arrives. I hoping to get more consistency.
 

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Quote:
Thanks for the pic, Tom. Mine looks that good as well on Knology on SOME channels. My biggest problem is consistency (same with all analog cable). Most of the inconsistency is in color - saturation levels, flesh tones, etc.
Exactly the point! This tv is brutally honest about faithfully reproducing bad sources in all its horror.


For all my numerous gripes about the Sony HD200 DirecTV HD tuner, it does do a better job with color, saturation, flesh tones on standard definition sources 480i than the Samsung TS160 that I also have. It is more consistent across the channels. If that's what you're looking for, it's the best for that. Although where the HD200 does suck wind, is viewing normal 4x3 aspect 480i. It has a problem squeezing the sides, skinny faces, tall people. But color reproduction and sharpness are excellent. I compromise by just watching most 480i in Zoom1, which slightly stretches the sides, and slightly crops top and bottom to fill the screen. Zoom1 is the mode for the picture above.


You need to get away from S-Video asap, although in that regard, S-Video is also noticeably better on the HD200 than the TS160. Both are excellent on DVI-HDTV however.


Tom
 

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Quote:
Do you find yourself didling with the color adjustment when you change between SD channels?
No. But more often than not, I have good colors and consistency across the channels.


Tom
 

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Interesting I just had some time with a 507 with Direct TV and it looked horrid. So much so that the wife wants nothing to do with the set. Everything looked pixelated the backgrounds were blurry, with no detail. It essentially looked like a very low quality mpeg file zoomed to full screen.


I'm curious, how did you get it looking so good? Is the set tweaked in any way? I still want to buy the set but I must prove that it can do SD better than it did in the demo. I'm on cable and hope that the quality is better than direct tv. I really hope that the problem was a bad direct tv feed.


mg
 
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