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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have posted a couple of times on this issue, but am requesting as much feedback from others as possible. Here is the issue:


I am now on my third Samsung DLP set. I started with the 50", but upgraded to the HLM617W. It was then replaced recently with the HLN617W due to the following issue. My HD input to the set is via a Scientific Atlanta 3100HD cable box. From day 1, I have noticed a 'strobing' or 'flashing' issue on the HD channels only. DVD and SD channels are outstanding. Through numerous tech visits, the issue has been isolated to the 1080i feed into the set. With a signal generator (removing the STB from the equation) a 1080i signal was sent to the set, and generated the 'strobing' on the test patterns as well. Samsung's response was to replace my HLM set with the new HLN model, which does the exact same thing. (It has the same firmware as well)


I am continuing to deal with Samsung on the issue, but am in need of feedback from others. Samsung has acknowledged the issue, but only on the 50" sets. They have yet to have any other complaints with this issue and the 61" sets.


Is there anyone else out there with strobing issues on the Samsung DLP sets? Is there anyone inputing 1080i to their set (and not converting it in a STB to 720P prior to the set)? If you are sending your DLP 720P via a STB that allows you to select which format to send, can anyone switch it to 1080i output and look for strobing issues on the HD channels for me?


The problem is in the conversion within the set from 1080i to it's native 720p. Any feedback with as much detail as possible would be greatly appreciated. The Samsung contact that I am dealing with is quite helpful, and wants to give Korea as much detail as possible to rectify the situation. As I stated earlier, they have acknowledged the issue on the 50" sets, but have not had complaints (other than mine) on the 61" sets.


Thanks in advance!

Brad
 

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I have an HLM5065 here in New York with the same cable box as you. My feed is 1080i and haven't seen any "strobing". By strobing I'm assuming you mean flickering. Is this problem very pronounced? So far my picture using 1080i is rock solid...watched CSI on CBS in 1080i last night and it looked very good.


That being said, I have the Bravo D1 DVD player and when I switch that to 1080i through the DVI input I get terrible stobing but assume it's a problem with the player. I don't really care though because I watch in 720p mode which is stunning.
 

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Brad,


Can you give me exact details on your firmware and stuff. I had been using 1080i out of my TS160 STB into the HLN617W for the last week up until a night ago when I switched the box to 720p and thought it "might look better". The current rev on mine is the 204 release with a date of November 2002 at like 9:04 am or something like that. I know others have stated the 204 release with a December time stamp. Very weird.


I'll be happy to run whatever experiments you need me to to see if this issue is prevalent on my setup. I only have the following as video sources:


TS160 STB (DVI)

Toshiba CD-3109 Interlaced DVD (Comp1)


I actually haven't tried the component outs from the TS160... perhaps I can try that on the Comp2 and Comp3 inputs to make sure they are working and see what they look like.


Let me know what I can do.


Later,

Jeff


PS - My HD content is pretty much HDNET and whatever happens to be showing on the regular networks or the PBS HD loop.
 

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Brad---I live in Phoenix with the same box and the same problem. I had Cox replace the box---no difference. They said it was the TV. I had the tv replaced from an HLM617 to the HLN617, and it did make a major improvement but its still not perfect. The band at the bottom of the screen that lists the network, show and the time shakes at a very high rate---so fast that some people cannot detect it. Unfortunately, I can but its now at just beyond the tolerable level so I guess I'll live with it till someone can come up with a fix.

Bruce
 

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I have had a HLM507W firmware 109 attached through component 2 to a Scientific Atlanta 3100HD box since November and have never experienced strobing. We receive several HD channels through COX and although the quality varies among the channels I have never noticed any strobing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for everyone's reply!


Jeff -- My firmware revision is 204 as well, with a date of November 2002. It is the same firmware as the HLM model that Samsung replaced with the HLN. I assume that the HD broadcast that you have is 1080? DirecTV?

Thanks again.


Bruce -- I will Private Message you, as I know that the Samsung manager that I have been dealing with would really like to have any information on other people that are experiencing the issue. I'm REALLY relieved to find someone else who has the exact issue! It is NOT the STB, as you have I'm sure discovered. I saw no improvement with the HLN series -- actually a little worse for me. Samsung is being very helpful, and I am confident that they will resolve the issue -- but right now they have had no complaints other than me! They have been able to duplicate the issue on the 50" set, but not the 61" yet. They are testing with various sources and signal generators. I'll contact you also via Private Message.


OrangeKid -- Does the 'title bar' strobe or flash at all when you change channels? As Bruce said above, that is the easiest place to see the problem, but is also quite noticeable on screen as well -- but it does vary with content.


Thanks again, and if anyone else can help, the more the merrier.

If you have the ability to change the format sent to your DLP from 720P or 1080i, and can see any flashing or strobing when set to 1080i, please let me know!


Thanks

Brad
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by 737CA
Thanks for everyone's reply!


Jeff -- My firmware revision is 204 as well, with a date of November 2002. It is the same firmware as the HLM model that Samsung replaced with the HLN. I assume that the HD broadcast that you have is 1080? DirecTV?

Thanks again.




Thanks again, and if anyone else can help, the more the merrier.

If you have the ability to change the format sent to your DLP from 720P or 1080i, and can see any flashing or strobing when set to 1080i, please let me know!


Thanks

Brad
Brad, ok, sounds like we have the same firmware. I just checked both the DVI input and the S-Video1 input when outputting a 720p and a 1080i signal from my STB. In none of the 4 cases did I see any strobing effects. I checked using HD material on HDNET (1080i native signal), PBS (not sure what rez they transmit) and the NBC Tonight Show (1080i??). I also checked the D* feeds for ESPN, ESPN2, Sci-Fi and Comedy Central. So, at least in my particular case of the same firmware on a 61" HLN model, it appears that I don't have the issue.



Wait a second... I just noticed something. Maybe I missed it, but did you tell me what type of input you are using on the TV to get your signal? Is it Comp2 or Comp3 perhaps? I haven't tested those inputs yet. It's slightly inconvenient to disconnect my one and only pair of these, but if that is what you are seeing the issue with, I can use those instead to see if the issue is present. As I stated above, I only tested the DVI and S-Vid1 jacks for the issue.


Let me know and I will see what else I can dig up for you on this end.


Later,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The issue is only on the HD channels, and only via the Comp2 (or 3) input.

The analong and digital channels via the SVideo input are outstanding.

DVD through Comp1 is also rock solid.


Thanks again,


Brad
 

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Brad


My HLM617 has exact same problem as yours.

Signals from Directv are very good for both HD and SD and signals from cable box(same model as yours) fine with S-video or composit but component cable for HD is real bad, vibrates all of the channels.

It is very slightly but very painful to watch.


Hyung
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hyung


Thanks for posting....this is really going to help us out. The person I have been dealing with at Samsung is extremely cooperative and wants to be able to document this issue with more than just my complaint. She reads this forum as well!


Just so I understand you -- you have both Directv HD, and Cable with HD? Your HD channels through Directv STB are good -- but HD through the cable SA3100HD box (component input) creates the strobing? If I am correct, how is your Directv STB connected? Is it set to output 720P or 1080I?


Thanks again -- I will be contacting Samsung again on Monday, to let her know that so far (only a few hours) I have already found more than one other person with the exact same issue. I am quite confident that this issue WILL be resolved.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by 737CA
The issue is only on the HD channels, and only via the Comp2 (or 3) input.

The analong and digital channels via the SVideo input are outstanding.

DVD through Comp1 is also rock solid.


Thanks again,


Brad
Brad,


Just got done checking out my TS160 STB set to output 1080i via Component output. I plugged those cables into the HLN617W's Comp2 input. No strobing whatsoever from HDNET or OTA PBS-HD. For my money, it appears that the DVI path is better than the component video path from the TS160. I flipped over to the SD digital broadcast of the Stars-Ducks game a second ago and, while the picture was far from good, the DVI output did look less soft and fuzzy.


So, it appears that PERHAPS the issue is not present on the HLN617W tv's with the same firmware... OR maybe it's a hit or miss sort of problem. How many hours do you have on your bulb? Do you think there is any correlation? Have you had this issue from the get-go? I have about 65 hours on my bulb right now I think.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Brad


First of all, I want to make sure what are my hardwares and connections.


Cable box: scientific atlanta explorer 3100HD

Component cable to 617's Comp3: picture vibrates for

both HD and SD, especially, guide bar by Cable box

vibrating unwatchable.

S-video to 617's S-video 2: Rock solid pictures for all channels.


DirecTV: Samsung TSR-160

Component cable to 617's Comp2: Picture on both 720P and

1080i are perfect(I changed switch on the back), HD and SD looks

good.


Samsung HLM-617W

December, 2002, Sorry about firmware version, I forgot the enter

code for service menu.


About the picture's Vibration

It is very mild but very bothering and made my eyes so tired.

when you watch the TV more than 17', it is OK to see

but in 15', you can see the picture is shaking.


I really wonder. Is this 617 problem or 3100HD problem?

Because , Yesterday I visited my friend's and saw his Mits' 70 or 75(sorry i have bad memory) had same vibration as mine. He has same 3100HD box.


Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Greetings Hyung


We have the identical issues. Picture through Svideo is rock solid, and through Comp2(or3) vibrates badly. I always watch all channels other than HD through Svideo -- and, of course, watch HD through Comp input.


It isn't the cable box, because Samsung sent a tech to my house who connected a signal generator to the set, and the 3100HD was completely disconnected. With the generator outputting 720P to the TV, it is was rock solid. When the generator was switched to output 1080i, it immediately caused the test pattern to begin vibrating, just as with the cable box connected.


I really wish we could isolate it to the cable box, but the above test disproves that theory. The interesting thing is that Samsung has acknowledged that it is an issue on the 50" sets, but have not been able to see it on the 61" sets -- yet. They are testing with various sources, and generators.


I am starting to think that this is not a 'universal' problem that affects ALL 617's, but one that occurs in quite a large percentage of them. That would explain why some people with the set (and same cable box by the way) do not have the issue, but others including yourself do. When Samsung was trying to remedy the problem with my initial HLM model, they sent out a new 'decoder board', and changed it in my set. It didn't fix the problem, of course, but it turns out that it is the exact same board that is in the HLN that they sent to replace my HLM.


Maybe the issue is with hardware in the Component inputs! All reports of the issue are common to the component inputs -- who knows. Again, I am quite confident that Samsung will eventually isolate the problem. They have been VERY cooperative. Initially, dealing with the 'normal' customer service was pretty bad, but now that I am dealing with a supervisor directly -- it has been outstanding.


Thanks again for your post, and I will continue to update everyone.

Brad
 

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I also live in Phoenix AZ where Cox uses the SA-3100HD. After researching on this site it seems to be an inferior 1st gen HD cable box. Since Cox here charges $500 to purchase the box, I have passed on this box and am waiting for the next generation to come out. It just doesn't seem worth the money.


However back to the issue at hand. The new box is the SA-3250HD. You can find the specs on Scientific Atlanta's site at

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/new...r07-3250HD.htm


the gist is that it has DVI out and can output 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Fortunately on Cox's website there is a blurb that indicates they will move to this box


link (for phoenix people):
http://www.cox.com/Future/hdtv.asp


text:

I keep hearing about 720p and 1080i signal formats - what is Cox going to support?

The first set-top Cox will deploy automatically converts all high-definition signals to 1080i format regardless of the format of the broadcast signal. If your TV only supports 720p (some older HDTV sets and some plasma TVs), you will not be able to view HD signals in the first release of Cox HD service. However the next version of set-tops will support a 720p HD input format.


Since Cox provides no upgrade path to the newer better box, I am waiting for it to come out to see if its worth $500 to purchase. I know the 3100HD isn't :rolleyes: (lol...you can tell I have a lot of problems with Cox's HD pricing policy)


So hopefully your cable system will move to the new box soon and it might solve your problem with the 720p output. One can only hope.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Greetings andwhite1


I too live in Phoenix, and I also was told by Cox that they will be switching to the SA3250HD sometime in the future. They were unable to tell me when, but you are correct that the new box will allow the user to select which format the box outputs to the TV. The person I spoke with at Cox said there would be some sort of 'trade -in' or 'upgrade' for customers with the original box.


I followed the link in your post, but was unable to find where you said that it mentions the 3250HD box.


Thanks

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hyung....please read your private messages.

(go to forum home page)


It is important -- the Samsung techs (located in NJ) may want to visit your set to see the strobing issue first hand.....please read private messages!


Thanks

Brad
 

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Brad,


I had this problem on my previous 2 HLM617s and my current HLN617 also has the problem. I thought it might be the fault of the SA3100HD box but, you said your tech duplicated the problem using a signal generator.


Well, I was having my current set serviced yesterday for a corner-to-corner focus issue and I showed the tech what was happening. He said that the correct term for the problem is "Vertical Jitter". He setup his signal generator to ouput 1080i and connected it to both of the component inputs and the jitter is clear as day. Turning off DNIe and DNR did not help the situation. This problem is real annoying. I tried to watch an HD baseball game the other day and could not stand to look at it.


I will be emailing my contact at Samsung about this today. Let your people know as well.


Thanks,


Frank T. Lee
 

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I don't understand why people are persisting in using 1080i as input to a 720p native device, when there are known problems. I understand the owners of the 3100 have no choice, but why the others? Its like when the patient says "doc it hurts when I do this"... and the doc's reply is "Then don't DO that!"
 

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RSawdey,


I understand what you are saying BUT, if the TV can accept 1080i then it SHOULD work with it correctly. Otherwise, limit the input options to 720p. This is a HDTV monitor and should work correctly with both 720p and 1080i!


-ftlee
 

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That goes double for the HLN567 if I ever get one!
 
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