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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need to be better educated about how to evaluate the DLP units vs. other units. I went to my local provider yesterday, checkbook in hand when he received a couple of the N model 507's. The floor model was set up and had next to it a Panasonic 50" plasma and a Mits (I think) LCD in the 40" range. All sets were playing off component 2 inputs with the usual HDTV loops playing (Extreme sports Hawaii, etc. with some movie trailers). The PQ of the Samsung was awful, easily the worst of the three sets. All were viewed from my home distance (10') and the folks there left me alone with the Sammy remote to try to get a better representation. I asked for a DVD and got Big with Tom Hanks, but it might be too old a print to make any difference.


Do I need to get them to give me comparisons with material in the DVI? The marked difference in PQ was stunning, compareed to what I saw last with an M model 5065.


How do I intelligently sit down and side-by-side these models?


Thanks again in advance to all.


Jeff Wolfe
 

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so your saying that the hln models PQ was heads above the HLM model? But still not compareable to Plasma?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by airwolf
The floor model was set up and had next to it a Panasonic 50" plasma and a Mits (I think) LCD in the 40" range.


Jeff Wolfe
You seem to be looking at apples, oranges, and prunes.


Was the LCD a RPTV?


I've never seen a Mits RPTV LCD but Panasonic has 40" and 45" RPTV LCD sets. The Panasonic RPTV LCDs that I've seen exaggerate green to the extent that grass looks like AstroTurf.


If the Panasonic 50" was HD then it must have cost around $10,000. The price tag on the Samsung HLN507 should have been around $4,200. For me that's a big difference.


Most people compare the Sony GWII LCD, Samsung DLP, and Panasonic DLP sets.


All that aside, it is possible that the Samsung was either defective or miss adjusted by other customers. You might check out the tweak threads. As more information about the HLN set gets posted you might want to try some "consensus" user menu settings.


With the original HLM sets there were two service menu changes that made the biggest difference. Those along with better user menu settings improve PQ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess I wasn't clear. The last DLP I saw in the store was an HLM 5065, in the same floor location as the 507 yesterday. The PQ was much better with the 5065.

The apples and oranges comment is well deserved. I was just shocked at the poor quality of the picture. The plasma was great and the LCD was better than the 507. All the inputs to each machine were component 2, according to the screen menus when setups were compared.


The gist of the question is: Do I need to get the best input possible (DVI? as I know the store has OTA HDTV for the other floor demos)? I don't recall what the inputs were when I viewed the 5065 and was blown away.


Will the tweaks I have followed from this forum make enough difference in the store setup (Gamma, etc.)?


I was really surprised, enough so that I didn't bring one home.


Thanks again.


Jeff Wolfe
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by airwolf
The gist of the question is: Do I need to get the best input possible (DVI? as I know the store has OTA HDTV for the other floor demos)? I don't recall what the inputs were when I viewed the 5065 and was blown away.


Will the tweaks I have followed from this forum make enough difference in the store setup (Gamma, etc.)?

Jeff Wolfe
Be careful that you are using HLN tweaks not the original HLM tweaks. There is a difference, but I can't tell you what it is. For one thing, there hasn't been enough time for tweaks to develop for the HLN sets.


Gamma and "black level enhancement" are the two big ones.


I had an early HLM507 in my home for a month. I returned it to wait for the HLN567 to arrive. It was a demo so I had the chance to compair what it looked like in the store with what I saw at home.


It was setup like the one you saw. I thought it's blacks had a green tint and that greens in HD material was artificial looking.


At home I used a DVI connection for OTA HD. I input DVD via component 1 using a Sony $375 interlaced DVD player that is two or three years old years old.


I set Gamma to zero and also set the three "Ds" to zero to turn off "black" enhancement. There were no exaggerated greens and the blacks looked black to me. Someone with better eyes than mine might have found fault with them but I didn't.


In your situation, I would try to find the dealer with the most generous return policy.


In our area, Magnolia Hi Fi charges $25 to deliver. You can return the set within 30 days for any reason and only pay the original delivery charge. I confirmed the terms with the manager and had him include them on the invoice.


Other dealers have similar offers but all seem to be more expensive. Best Buy charges a restock fee if the set isn't defective. Others have higher delivery charges and also charge to pick up the returned set. One could probably bargain on that point with any of them. Just be sure they have a good reputation going in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the quick feedback. I'm out the door to the local guy (in my previous posts). I will get the inputs to comp 1 and try the mute 182 power routine for gamma 0 and the three d's to zero. The shop I go to is not a chain, but Magnolia is down the road some from him.


Les, your comments are very helpful. I really thought I was looking at a defective unit, but my initial fiddling with the remote got nowhere.

Thanks again and I will also try to get them to string a line from the demo HDTV bank (several TV's against a black display wall) to the other side of the room where the side-by-side demo of the N 507, Panasonic plasma and yes the Panasonic LCD (I called and asked them the LCD brand after the first post).


Jeff Wolfe
 

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Good luck. Remember, what I did was a common quick fix for the HLM. I'm not sure it works the same with the HLN sets. You might not find the three "D"s and Gamma may be different out of the box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When I got to the store, I sat down away from the set with the manual to look at the menus sections. The SM stuff isn't discussed, but basic information was there and usable. The set PQ still was the lowest of the 3 sets displayed side-by-side.


Opening the Service Menu and changing the gamma to 0 from 3 was very helpful and the 3 d's were nowhere to be found. Upon a reboot, the PQ markedly improved on their loop and with a DVD (I tool my own copy of LOR). I was truly surprised and then the salesman (not the usual guy I deal with) came running up screeching to not touch the service menu as it took the technician three hours to undo the last changes a customer made. He was surprised at the PQ improvement also and told me that the sets are on 24/7 and they protect the whole bank of TV's with some sort of spike and surge suppressor system at their electrical service entry.


Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised and intend to buy one of the N model 507 W's.


Thanks Les for your input and encouragement.


Jeff Wolfe
 

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Maybe those three hours contributed to the problems you were seeing. I doubt that they take the trouble to record all SM entries before putting a set on the floor. DLP experience has been in very short supply for most dealer service people.


If you are into ISF calibration there has been one owner who has reported his satisfaction with the calibration done to his set. So far that's the only report I've read.


I'm glad you got some interesting results. I assume you also took the set out of "Dynamic" mode and modified the user menus a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I went back today to get the set alone while the shoppers were in church. My changes were still in place and the picture quality remains good. Reading some of the new "N" model threads, I changed the gamma up to 5 and was not impressed with the overall quality of the blacks in darker scenes and the switches between scenes.


Now the strange part: the manual and the outside read N model but picking apart the SM reads 507 HLM, DNIe and 23000 chip, January 23, 2003 build.


So, does it make a difference if it is labeled M or N if the innards read the best chips i.e. DNIe and 23000 chips?


Thanks again. I am unable to run down the other threads with whether or not the M or N label vs. the real innards makes a difference. Is this just a model turnover issue between M and M model at the factory?


Jeff Wolfe


VR
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by airwolf
Now the strange part: the manual and the outside read N model but picking apart the SM reads 507 HLM, DNIe and 23000 chip, January 23, 2003 build.

Jeff Wolfe


VR
I don't know what difference it makes. Samsung is supposed to be working on a firmware upgrade for earlier models. The first sets that "might" have discrete commands would be the HLN467 and HLN567. It wouldn't surprise me if they had to be field upgraded too.



I think they change some SM and UM settings from time to time to make them look better out of the box. You will find more tweak information here in the RPTV forum after more sets are sold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Les:


Thanks again for the input. I neglected to relate the firmware was v204 on the "M" floor model with the N innards, manual and SM information. I guess if the information holds up, that an M model with a newer build date and DNIe/ 23000 chip set is the real deal (in more ways than one: if at a lower price than the N's).


Could the factory make it any more unclear? I guess they are scrambling to meet need and are not really aware of the challenges that labeling does make to the careful consumer.


Jeff Wolfe


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Quote:
Originally posted by airwolf
Could the factory make it any more unclear? I guess they are scrambling to meet need and are not really aware of the challenges that labeling does make to the careful consumer.


Jeff Wolfe


VR
Only if they pasted a Sony label on them.
 
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