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any update?
Samsung LED + CEC + Crestron Digital Media
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Hi All,
Sorry for not updating, I have been REALL, REALLY busy.
Quick summary. I installed a Crestron Digital Media System (DM-8x8) in my home and running fiber from the DM-8x8 to 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays.
I am using the DMCO-13 output cards (2) on the DM-8x8. Each card has 2 Fiber outputs and 2 HDMI output. As I mentioned above the fiber from the DM-8x8 is going form the 2 DMCO-13 cards to the 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays. The HDMI outs (4 of them) are each going to the rooms receiver HDMI input carrying uncompressed audio. There is also 2 channel audio break out but I will not be using those. Note all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest.
So here is where the project stands.
1) The entire system is in, DM 8x8, DM Input Cards, DMCO 13 output cards, DM-RMC-100-F boxes.
2) Everything has been programmed. I do have to say programming a DM system is very easy and straight forward. No issues at all.
3) Control - I am running one Fiber cable from the DM-8x8 to each DM-RMC-100-F. From the DM-RMC-100-F I am controlling 2 of the 3 plasmas via RS-232, running 6" of CAT5 from a terminal block on the DM-RMC-100-F to a RJ45 to DB9 adapter connected to the displays.
The other Plasma (Samsung) is being controlled via CEC. I am only controlling PON and POF since there is no need to switch inputs on the displays. All thats is done by the DM-8x8. Programming CEC on the Crestron DM-8x8 was very easy. You do need to obtain the CEC codes from HDMI, LLC .
As far as Plasma #4 goes, the Pioneer Elite Pro-141-FD, it has not yet been installed (it's sitting in storage). I am re-doing the media room and waiting for custom millwork to be finished (Mid-Feb I am told), Drapes to be completed (Late Feb early March) and Sofa to be finished (Late Feb early March).
4) Switching - The Crestron DM system uses Crestron quick switching technology. I do have to say that switching is fast. The longest delay I experience between switching and the image being displayed is 3 seconds, which is Kaleidescape. The quickest is switching to my MacPro which is almost immediate
Although I am a Crestron dealer/programer I might be a bit biased but there is nothing out there that any other company offers that can come close to Crestron's DM system. Not Control4, Just Add Power, Gefen, no one. Crestron's DM system can take any video source, Component, Composite, DVI, HDMI and send it to any display.
I do have pics, schematics and 2D architectural drawings of my automation system that, when I have time, I will be posting along with a complete write up showing every detail of my system. I am debating of putting it in Home Automation or Home A/V Distribution and Networking. Since it's both I can't decide.
I hope that satisfys for now. Any questions? I will be more than happy to answer.
Sorry for not updating, I have been REALL, REALLY busy.
Quick summary. I installed a Crestron Digital Media System (DM-8x8) in my home and running fiber from the DM-8x8 to 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays.
I am using the DMCO-13 output cards (2) on the DM-8x8. Each card has 2 Fiber outputs and 2 HDMI output. As I mentioned above the fiber from the DM-8x8 is going form the 2 DMCO-13 cards to the 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays. The HDMI outs (4 of them) are each going to the rooms receiver HDMI input carrying uncompressed audio. There is also 2 channel audio break out but I will not be using those. Note all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest.
So here is where the project stands.
1) The entire system is in, DM 8x8, DM Input Cards, DMCO 13 output cards, DM-RMC-100-F boxes.
2) Everything has been programmed. I do have to say programming a DM system is very easy and straight forward. No issues at all.
3) Control - I am running one Fiber cable from the DM-8x8 to each DM-RMC-100-F. From the DM-RMC-100-F I am controlling 2 of the 3 plasmas via RS-232, running 6" of CAT5 from a terminal block on the DM-RMC-100-F to a RJ45 to DB9 adapter connected to the displays.
The other Plasma (Samsung) is being controlled via CEC. I am only controlling PON and POF since there is no need to switch inputs on the displays. All thats is done by the DM-8x8. Programming CEC on the Crestron DM-8x8 was very easy. You do need to obtain the CEC codes from HDMI, LLC .
As far as Plasma #4 goes, the Pioneer Elite Pro-141-FD, it has not yet been installed (it's sitting in storage). I am re-doing the media room and waiting for custom millwork to be finished (Mid-Feb I am told), Drapes to be completed (Late Feb early March) and Sofa to be finished (Late Feb early March).
4) Switching - The Crestron DM system uses Crestron quick switching technology. I do have to say that switching is fast. The longest delay I experience between switching and the image being displayed is 3 seconds, which is Kaleidescape. The quickest is switching to my MacPro which is almost immediate
Although I am a Crestron dealer/programer I might be a bit biased but there is nothing out there that any other company offers that can come close to Crestron's DM system. Not Control4, Just Add Power, Gefen, no one. Crestron's DM system can take any video source, Component, Composite, DVI, HDMI and send it to any display.
I do have pics, schematics and 2D architectural drawings of my automation system that, when I have time, I will be posting along with a complete write up showing every detail of my system. I am debating of putting it in Home Automation or Home A/V Distribution and Networking. Since it's both I can't decide.
I hope that satisfys for now. Any questions? I will be more than happy to answer.
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381 Posts
That is really awesome update, glad to hear it is working out so well for you. I will be in the market soon.
Can you do a test when you get a minute? See what happens when you "listen to music from CD while watching Kalediscape on TV". In other words, mix the audio and video streams and see how DM handles it. I am really curious about this because I do it a lot.
Thanks!!
EDIT: also, what is the PON/POFF codes? is it consistent among all mfgs (ie a standard?). How did you do the CEC coding? Did you use the DM configuration tool, or program it in SIMPL?
Can you do a test when you get a minute? See what happens when you "listen to music from CD while watching Kalediscape on TV". In other words, mix the audio and video streams and see how DM handles it. I am really curious about this because I do it a lot.
Thanks!!
EDIT: also, what is the PON/POFF codes? is it consistent among all mfgs (ie a standard?). How did you do the CEC coding? Did you use the DM configuration tool, or program it in SIMPL?
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I will do this tomorrow and let you know. I am sure it will handle it fine.
The PON/POF codes I received are straight from HDMI, LLC the company that sets the standard. According to the 1.3 documentation, 276 pages, a company can use their own proprietary codes but must also support a set of standard codes that are set/adopted by HDMI, LLC. Within the "Standard" code set are the codes for PON and POF, among others, that must be supported.
I did it in SIMPL. I will post a few screen shots over the weekend, more likely Sunday, of the CEC coding in SIMPL.
Hope that helps.
I will do this tomorrow and let you know. I am sure it will handle it fine.
The PON/POF codes I received are straight from HDMI, LLC the company that sets the standard. According to the 1.3 documentation, 276 pages, a company can use their own proprietary codes but must also support a set of standard codes that are set/adopted by HDMI, LLC. Within the "Standard" code set are the codes for PON and POF, among others, that must be supported.
I did it in SIMPL. I will post a few screen shots over the weekend, more likely Sunday, of the CEC coding in SIMPL.
Hope that helps.
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Just 2 pics. 1 showing the DM-8x8 and the other is a partial rack shot.
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cool, thx for the info. You should start a thread in the "home entertainment and theater builder" documenting your personal system, there are a lot of people looking for "whole home" threads. I put mine up at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216865
Wow, thanks for the update - looks like an awesome system! Are you a Crestron dealer or CAIP?
Edit: Also - I think that CEC (or perhaps a modified version) would really help the A/V industry, since components could easily be switched out by consumers (or integrators) without changing code. I know that's a source of frustration for many consumers with Crestron (or any other brand) control system. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
Not to get the thread off topic, but I'm going to have to look into those Kalediscape systems. I've heard a lot about them, but don't really know much. Any general comments on it?
Edit: Also - I think that CEC (or perhaps a modified version) would really help the A/V industry, since components could easily be switched out by consumers (or integrators) without changing code. I know that's a source of frustration for many consumers with Crestron (or any other brand) control system. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
Not to get the thread off topic, but I'm going to have to look into those Kalediscape systems. I've heard a lot about them, but don't really know much. Any general comments on it?
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My company, Digital Studio Werks , is a Crestron dealer. As far as me personally I need one more class, Programming for Certification and then the final exam in order to achieve Certified Crestron Programmer. I have the required programs written to take the class, Programming for Certification, I am just reviewing them so they come back without any "you need to fix this, that, etc". I HATE that.
As far as CEC goes, it does make programming a breeze. I do have to say this though. Without the DM system I would not be able to use CEC due to the fact that you have send the codes through HDMI. The coding is easy as it's just a serial join. But what the DM system does is it give you the HDMI input to send the Serial commands on and get them into the HDMI channel and at the same time sends the feedback back to a Serial output. Every DM input & output card and on the room controllers there is a HMDI serial input and output.
In order for CEC to take off there needs to be a way to allow the programmer to get the commands into the HDMI channel.
Besides being a Crestron dealer we are also a Kaleidescape dealer amongst many other brands. We are a full CI company. If interested hit me up and I can answer any questions you have. You can also view the " Kaleidescape Experience " video on our web site. If you are interested in a Kaleidescape system, I can definitely work something out for you, after all I am the owner of Digital Studio Werks
My company, Digital Studio Werks , is a Crestron dealer. As far as me personally I need one more class, Programming for Certification and then the final exam in order to achieve Certified Crestron Programmer. I have the required programs written to take the class, Programming for Certification, I am just reviewing them so they come back without any "you need to fix this, that, etc". I HATE that.
As far as CEC goes, it does make programming a breeze. I do have to say this though. Without the DM system I would not be able to use CEC due to the fact that you have send the codes through HDMI. The coding is easy as it's just a serial join. But what the DM system does is it give you the HDMI input to send the Serial commands on and get them into the HDMI channel and at the same time sends the feedback back to a Serial output. Every DM input & output card and on the room controllers there is a HMDI serial input and output.
In order for CEC to take off there needs to be a way to allow the programmer to get the commands into the HDMI channel.
Besides being a Crestron dealer we are also a Kaleidescape dealer amongst many other brands. We are a full CI company. If interested hit me up and I can answer any questions you have. You can also view the " Kaleidescape Experience " video on our web site. If you are interested in a Kaleidescape system, I can definitely work something out for you, after all I am the owner of Digital Studio Werks
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Well I am watching a movie on kaleidescape and at the same time I am listening to Bebel Gilberto . Routed Audio and Video source independently of each other. No problems whatsoever.
Any questions feel free to ask.
Well I am watching a movie on kaleidescape and at the same time I am listening to Bebel Gilberto . Routed Audio and Video source independently of each other. No problems whatsoever.
Any questions feel free to ask.
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263 Posts
crazy cool setup.....
that is some $$ gear!
that is some $$ gear!
I'll have to watch those kaleidescape videos sometime. I'd probably love a system, however I'm sure it's way over my budget (which is close to $0 now, I'm about to order a new LCD
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). I'm one of those poor college students.
I've looked at many of the Digital Media products from Simpl Windows (along with seeing a demo/presentation on it). Looking at how to program a system usually tells me more of what I want to know faster than reading documentation/brochures. So far I really like what I've seen. Only other thing I think would be useful is optional scalers on input/output cards.
I've looked at many of the Digital Media products from Simpl Windows (along with seeing a demo/presentation on it). Looking at how to program a system usually tells me more of what I want to know faster than reading documentation/brochures. So far I really like what I've seen. Only other thing I think would be useful is optional scalers on input/output cards.
Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well. Though haven't tried with switching a wireless USB key yet. . ..
Outside of that - the DM looks to be a great unit. No one else really has a commercial unit working like it and have no complaints about it (outside of its price point - which is absurd).
Outside of that - the DM looks to be a great unit. No one else really has a commercial unit working like it and have no complaints about it (outside of its price point - which is absurd).
James,
What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers? If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range? Seems like a pain to be using a cable connected to a hidden box behind my TV. Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?
What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers? If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range? Seems like a pain to be using a cable connected to a hidden box behind my TV. Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?
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The USB port on the DM-RMC-100(F), and all the ports for that matter, work flawlessly. I have the USB port on the HDMI from the DM 8x8 connected to my MacPro. At each DM-RMC-100-F I have a USB wireless dongle attached so I can use my MacPro at any location in the house.
The USB port on the DM-RMC-100(F), and all the ports for that matter, work flawlessly. I have the USB port on the HDMI from the DM 8x8 connected to my MacPro. At each DM-RMC-100-F I have a USB wireless dongle attached so I can use my MacPro at any location in the house.
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The farthest I use it is about 40ft. and it worked without any issues at all. I use the Nyko wireless Wii bar and there are only 2 players at a time playing, my wife and I (we do not have any kids). I do not know if the number of players (Traffic) may have an effect on distance.
I have not done a DM install with a PS3 as a source so I can not give you a definitive answer on that. Maybe I will get a PS3 and try it.
I have a VERY rough draft done that I am thinking of posting but I have not had time to really put together a detailed design plan. The rough draft I do have is more of a connection diagram that shows how all the sources (Inputs) are connected to the DM system and how all the Displays are feed (Output). Maybe I will clean it up over the next few days and post it by Sunday.
The farthest I use it is about 40ft. and it worked without any issues at all. I use the Nyko wireless Wii bar and there are only 2 players at a time playing, my wife and I (we do not have any kids). I do not know if the number of players (Traffic) may have an effect on distance.
I have not done a DM install with a PS3 as a source so I can not give you a definitive answer on that. Maybe I will get a PS3 and try it.
I have a VERY rough draft done that I am thinking of posting but I have not had time to really put together a detailed design plan. The rough draft I do have is more of a connection diagram that shows how all the sources (Inputs) are connected to the DM system and how all the Displays are feed (Output). Maybe I will clean it up over the next few days and post it by Sunday.
thanks James, I know there is a burning question for you over at the c4forums website regarding the “Analog Sunset” and "January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”
People are concerned that their current component distribution will be negated to SD. It's one of the issues I'm watching in order to decide Crestron & DM vs C4.
http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=5063
People are concerned that their current component distribution will be negated to SD. It's one of the issues I'm watching in order to decide Crestron & DM vs C4.
http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=5063
James,
are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?
Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.
are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?
Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.
I think you are mistaking the network aspect and the hdmi matrix functions. The HD matrix doesn't feed your HD video via TCP/IP that you feed it. it takes HDMI signal and delivers it via cat cable or fiber. Now I believe it is most like tcp/ip encoded and delivered but that's encapsulated and hidden from you. It provisions each of the boxes as tcp ip boxes with ip addresses but its over it's own fiber/cat connections and NOT through a separate switch. In other words the matrix switch is acting as a switch for the end point devices behind the unit (if you deliver via cat/fiber - and not just hdmi out.
So, basically you are going to feed an hdmi signal from your players/servers to the matrix to feed out from there (not taking m2ts, ISO, mkv).
Now, in terms of network. I would say you should implement a private network for crestron stuff and another network for client related computer stuff. . Now, if you are fully in control of the client network as well, then you could conceivably put the two together - especially with VLANs if you are familiar with them. However vlans get you into enterprise stuff - especially if you want bdpu guard stuff and a few other things. And since a high-end cisco switch that does this runs into a couple grand to 10 grand, you might want to consider separate lan units.
I think you are mistaking the network aspect and the hdmi matrix functions. The HD matrix doesn't feed your HD video via TCP/IP that you feed it. it takes HDMI signal and delivers it via cat cable or fiber. Now I believe it is most like tcp/ip encoded and delivered but that's encapsulated and hidden from you. It provisions each of the boxes as tcp ip boxes with ip addresses but its over it's own fiber/cat connections and NOT through a separate switch. In other words the matrix switch is acting as a switch for the end point devices behind the unit (if you deliver via cat/fiber - and not just hdmi out.
So, basically you are going to feed an hdmi signal from your players/servers to the matrix to feed out from there (not taking m2ts, ISO, mkv).
Now, in terms of network. I would say you should implement a private network for crestron stuff and another network for client related computer stuff. . Now, if you are fully in control of the client network as well, then you could conceivably put the two together - especially with VLANs if you are familiar with them. However vlans get you into enterprise stuff - especially if you want bdpu guard stuff and a few other things. And since a high-end cisco switch that does this runs into a couple grand to 10 grand, you might want to consider separate lan units.
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