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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just purchased a new Samsung LN-S4692D LCD set. I've done many a forum reads, searches and Googles, but still can't find all or only incomplete info I need on calibrating this set, and I'm experiencing a few operational oddities (to me anyways) that I'd like to share and ask quesitons about.


I have a Colorfacts 5.0 Pro calibration software and the original colorimeter sensor so I plan on doing a calibration in the near future after I put a few hours on the set. Current sources/setup is TWC HD cable service using SA8300 HD-STB and an Onkyo 6-disc DVD-changer with HDMI upconversion to 720p/1080i. New Onkyo 604B receiver has been ordered to run/switch HDMI from both sources, but right now using component connections for both.


Any inputs/guidance/links/references on the following would be much appreciated:


- Disabling DNIe - looks like it can't be done on this set However, based on some other threads on similar Samsung sets I tried the "Movie" as Mode setting and you almost can't see any DNIe processing/changes when you turn on DNIe Demo option. With the right paused picture and at just the right distance I believe I can see a very faint demarcation between the 2 screen halves, but many times I cannot. It is very observable with any other Mode setting. I don't see any obvious Service Menu option to disable - but any inputs here would be appreciated. Otherwise I recommend using Movie Mode.


- Can anyone share meaning to all the options/fields in the Service Menu (I would prefer not to have to buy a factory Service Manual for the couple of option definitions I need to know)? The Svc Menu main menu options are: Calibration, Option Byte, White Balance, W/B Movie, SVP-PX, LBE, SOUND (STV825x), Sub Micom Download, Check Sum, KS1406, KS1409, KS1410, Dynamic Contrast, EEPROM Access Count, and RESET


- I'll assume the White Balance is the main submenu I'll use to adjust the RGB Offset and Gain values, but there are 2 other fields in there: Sub Bright (LBE) and Sub Contrast (LBE) - what are these? Here is one of the oddities - it didn't matter what Mode I selected in the user menu nor what Energy Setting mode I selected - going into the service Menu after changing these and going to this submenu ALWAYS gave me the same RGB Offset and Gain values??!??


- Here is another operational oddity - everytime I go into the Service Menu and then leave (power off and the normal power back on) it resets the Picture Settings to Mode of Dynamic and Color Tone back to default rather than my settings before I went into the Service Mode (SM). Why?


- The "W/B Movie" submenu looks interesting and I can see the default settings in there for the "Movie" Mode setting, but what exactly is this W/B Movie option and what will happen if I turn the first sub-option menu item to W/B Movie "ON" instead of default "Off"??


- How do I change the Gamma curve - any direct setting in the SM? Or will it be a combination of Mode and Color Tone and/or Energy Saving settings?


- The user manual doesn't go into a lot of explanation over what exactly the setting options actually do. What exactly is activated when the user option of "Film Mode" is turned on (activates built in deinterlacing processing for automatic switching between Video and Film mode processing)?


- Looks like basic SM navigation is Up/Down keys for submenu selection, Enter key to go into the submenu options and for selecting an option, the Left/Right key to change a value, and the Menu button to exit up one level. I guess there is no Save key - just power off after changes and they're stored? Any other keys I need to know about??


- Noise/hum when you turn on Energy Saving. Last night after all spousal units and offspring were in bed asleep and all other household appliances turned off, I noticed a very descernable hum when any Power Saving mode of Low, Medium or High was selected. It completely goes away when you turn it "off" (set at its brightest) which I initially thought would have the opposite effect. Step down voltage transformer inserted when activated which hums? Note that during the day /evening with audio turned on and seated 12' away and the normal household noise floor exists this hum wasn't noticed. However, when dead silent it is easily heard - or is it just my set?


- For those who have had their 4692 or similar LCD set calibrated, what was the base-line user Picture and Energy Saving settings used (eg., Picture Mode, Colortone and Energy Saving) to base their calibration starting point?


This is a good start - thanks in advance for any inputs/answers. Note that I also posted this in the LCD Flat Panel forum - so far no detailed calibration replies/info, mostly just general user menu changes and preferences.

Thanks,

daggerNC
 

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I will answer what I can I have the same set and have countless hrs now tweeking it LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by daggerNC /forum/post/0




- Disabling DNIe - looks like it can't be done on this set However, based on some other threads on similar Samsung sets I tried the "Movie" as Mode setting and you almost can't see any DNIe processing/changes when you turn on DNIe Demo option. With the right paused picture and at just the right distance I believe I can see a very faint demarcation between the 2 screen halves, but many times I cannot. It is very observable with any other Mode setting. I don't see any obvious Service Menu option to disable - but any inputs here would be appreciated. Otherwise I recommend using Movie Mode.

You can turn "down" DNIe on this set. You go into the LBE menu and set:

Black_Tilt to 0

Black_Gain_Max to 0

B_Ratio to 0

Lower_Func to 0

Upper_Func to 0


I also set:

Skin_EN to 0 (helps with the red push)


I left the rest alone for now.


As a side note PATT_SEL is a pattern generator.


Move mode does not use DNIe as much but dulls the PQ this way you can use the other modes without the "BLACK CRUSH"


- Can anyone share meaning to all the options/fields in the Service Menu (I would prefer not to have to buy a factory Service Manual for the couple of option definitions I need to know)? The Svc Menu main menu options are: Calibration, Option Byte, White Balance, W/B Movie, SVP-PX, LBE, SOUND (STV825x), Sub Micom Download, Check Sum, KS1406, KS1409, KS1410, Dynamic Contrast, EEPROM Access Count, and RESET

Calibration will "self calibrate" the set BUT DO NOT USE THIS you need the right test pattern on the right input each input calibrates something different. HDMI for grayscale component for brightness and contrast and so on.


Option Byte has guess what different options for the set like turning the side A/V port on or off and such. The important one is Gamma you have 10 options I have not found one yet that I like but have only run tests on 3 so far.


White Balance set brightness and contrast for all modes also sets the grayscale for all modes and is = to cool1 so if you set D65 in the White Balance then cool1 is now D65 for all modes.


W/B Movie this lets you set the color temps for all modes but no cool1 as that was set in the White Balance menu. You can set the default power on mode either movie or Dynamic you can also set the movie mode presets. W/B movie on/off does just that turns off movie mode ONLY WHILE IN THE SM so you can set LBE (DNIe) and so on with out movie mode mess you up.


SVP-PX I am still working on that.


LBE controls DNIe see above


Sound lets you adjust the sound for the set I never messed with this as I don't use the sets speakers


Sub Micom lets you download updates from a USB drive.


Checksum ??

KS1406 ??

KS1409 ??


Dynamic Contrast lets you turn off DNIe in SM only


EEPROM ??


Reset some NOT ALL are reset to defaults things like the time


- I'll assume the White Balance is the main submenu I'll use to adjust the RGB Offset and Gain values, but there are 2 other fields in there: Sub Bright (LBE) and Sub Contrast (LBE) - what are these? Here is one of the oddities - it didn't matter what Mode I selected in the user menu nor what Energy Setting mode I selected - going into the service Menu after changing these and going to this submenu ALWAYS gave me the same RGB Offset and Gain values??!??

When you go into the SM all "user setting" are rest to mid point EXCEPT if you go into the w/b movie mode turn movie mode on and set the mode to movie then the white balance menu will reflect the movie presets in the w/b movie mode.


Sub Bright and Sub Contrast set, you guessed it the brightness and contrast for the mid point for all modes EXCEPT if you are in movie mode then it reflects the presets in the w/b movie presets


- Here is another operational oddity - everytime I go into the Service Menu and then leave (power off and the normal power back on) it resets the Picture Settings to Mode of Dynamic and Color Tone back to default rather than my settings before I went into the Service Mode (SM). Why?

When you leave the SM all settings go back to factory defaults or the ones you changed in the SM


- The "W/B Movie" submenu looks interesting and I can see the default settings in there for the "Movie" Mode setting, but what exactly is this W/B Movie option and what will happen if I turn the first sub-option menu item to W/B Movie "ON" instead of default "Off"??

See above also I forgot you can set the default color temp for movie or Dynamic (witch is all the rest)


- How do I change the Gamma curve - any direct setting in the SM? Or will it be a combination of Mode and Color Tone and/or Energy Saving settings?

The Option menu


- The user manual doesn't go into a lot of explanation over what exactly the setting options actually do. What exactly is activated when the user option of "Film Mode" is turned on (activates built in deinterlacing processing for automatic switching between Video and Film mode processing)?

Don't know as I only use HDMI or componet (grayed out)


- Looks like basic SM navigation is Up/Down keys for submenu selection, Enter key to go into the submenu options and for selecting an option, the Left/Right key to change a value, and the Menu button to exit up one level. I guess there is no Save key - just power off after changes and they're stored? Any other keys I need to know about??

Nope you got it


- Noise/hum when you turn on Energy Saving. Last night after all spousal units and offspring were in bed asleep and all other household appliances turned off, I noticed a very descernable hum when any Power Saving mode of Low, Medium or High was selected. It completely goes away when you turn it "off" (set at its brightest) which I initially thought would have the opposite effect. Step down voltage transformer inserted when activated which hums? Note that during the day /evening with audio turned on and seated 12' away and the normal household noise floor exists this hum wasn't noticed. However, when dead silent it is easily heard - or is it just my set?

Nope my doe that as well


- For those who have had their 4692 or similar LCD set calibrated, what was the base-line user Picture and Energy Saving settings used (eg., Picture Mode, Colortone and Energy Saving) to base their calibration starting point?

Set color grayscale and color temp in the white balance menu with movie mode off (so the movie presets don't mess you up) this will = cool1 in all modes. You can set other temp presets in w/b movie mode if you wish. Turn off/down DNIe in the LBE menu to get rid of the black crush.


Now this is VERY IMPORTANT always calibrate HDMI FIRST because changes there change the settings in the other inputs. So say if you do component first then do HDMI your component will now be the same as HDMI, but if you do HDMI first then component it will not affect HDMI but if you go back and tweak HDMI you will have to go back and reset component. I found this out the hard way

If you do this yourself make sure to wright down all the starting # as there is no way to get them back after you change them if you did not wright them down. Do not (or let anyone else) put a sensor on the screen get or make a tripod put it close but not touching the screen.


If you hire someone make sure they know Samsung and have some experience with an LCD. This is not an easy set to calibrate.


PM me if you want "help" with a service manual.


Hope this helps


Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bill - extreme thanks!! That was a lot of very helpful info - appreciate your time going thru my questions one by one.


Thanks for the tip on not attaching the sensor directly to the screen - I'll assume it leaves marks or stresses the screen when removing the suction cups? I have a tripod for my sensor as well. I comfirmed with Samsung customer support rep (wanted a tech support person but this rep didn't feel they needed to xfer my call) that my assumption above about turning on Power Saving does insert a voltage step down circuit which does hum. My concern is that it may compromise low IRE black levels...but I hate hums.


Thanks for the DNIe -> LBE settings. I agree that the Movie mode does "dull" down the picture but I was trying to tell myself that it only looked that way due to the tricks DNIe was playing in the other modes. I think I'll start with Custom or Standard and the new LBE settings. OK - for the White Balance adjustment items, if I understood you correctly then making changes here does modify the RGB gains and offsets for the default Cool1 Color Tone Setting, which is the default for all the Picture Modes except for Movie, right? If the Sub Bright and Sub Contrast are the median brightness and contrast values, I'll assume leaving those along should be OK as they can be changed in the user Picture menu settings. BTW, what Picture mode (Dynamic, Standard, Movie, or Custom) are you using now?


Interesting - I'm using Component right now until my new HDMI receiver comes in. But the Film Mode option is not grayed out for me - I can toggle it on or off?


Great tip on doing HDMI first - that saved me a lot of pain in the future, but I hope to go all HDMI assuming all my boxes play well together. I have one last observation/question for you or anyone else tonight: I just wanted to check my eyeball settings on contrast and brightness and sharpness, so I inserted the DVE disk (I HATE navigating thru this - horrible Joe Kane for the second time!!). I noticed that when a full black screen or the black backgound in the Pluge patterns were displayed, I saw significant magenta-ish back light colors mostly on the two sides and less on top and bottom! Don't really notice it when regular video material is playing, but is this "normal" for these flat panel LCD displays? I would normally assume that contrast ratio would be very poor, but when I watch video material that has black items (for example a person wearing black pants) in a screen with other colors, they look very, very black. Looks like this set may have decent ANSI contrast, but poor on/off?? Or when everyone else puts up a full field 0 IRE screen, it is perfectly black all the way around the whole screen, and thus I possibly have a defective set??


Thanks much again,

daggerNC


PS - sending you a PM Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggerNC /forum/post/0


Thanks for the tip on not attaching the sensor directly to the screen - I'll assume it leaves marks or stresses the screen when removing the suction cups?

Yes also the pressure of the sensor will slowly mess your readings up.


but I hate hums.

Me too but don't hear it very often my wife never hears it.



OK - for the White Balance adjustment items, if I understood you correctly then making changes here does modify the RGB gains and offsets for the default Cool1 Color Tone Setting, which is the default for all the Picture Modes except for Movie, right?

Yes, you can change the color defaults in the w/b movie menu. I left all but movie to cool1 I set movie to normal and "tweaked" normal a little different just for when watching movies


If the Sub Bright and Sub Contrast are the median brightness and contrast values, I'll assume leaving those along should be OK as they can be changed in the user Picture menu settings.

I changed mine countless times. LOL


BTW, what Picture mode (Dynamic, Standard, Movie, or Custom) are you using now?

I use custom for SD, Standard for HD, I put Dynamic kind of in the middle and movie for some HD movies. Dynamic, Standard and Custom are all the same with different presets no way to change them that I have found.


Interesting - I'm using Component right now until my new HDMI receiver comes in. But the Film Mode option is not grayed out for me - I can toggle it on or off?

I have no 480i source as my STB sends 480p up.


I have one last observation/question for you or anyone else tonight: I just wanted to check my eyeball settings on contrast and brightness and sharpness, so I inserted the DVE disk (I HATE navigating thru this - horrible Joe Kane for the second time!!). I noticed that when a full black screen or the black backgound in the Pluge patterns were displayed, I saw significant magenta-ish back light colors mostly on the two sides and less on top and bottom! Don't really notice it when regular video material is playing, but is this "normal" for these flat panel LCD displays?

Mine has this too I will let you know what happens after Samsung changes out my main-board should be next week. The board is being changed for other reasons.


I would normally assume that contrast ratio would be very poor, but when I watch video material that has black items (for example a person wearing black pants) in a screen with other colors, they look very, very black. Looks like this set may have decent ANSI contrast, but poor on/off??

I have not run a on/off test yet but my last gray scale run has me at 1229:1 with a average gamma of 1.99
with the high end looking good, low OK and the middle too high, working on that but so for have only tried 3 of the gamma settings.


Or when everyone else puts up a full field 0 IRE screen, it is perfectly black all the way around the whole screen, and thus I possibly have a defective set??

Not uniformly black also horizontal lines running bottom to top. Very hard to see now that the set is set "right" but still there.

I love this set but I knew the trade offs going in. Blacks are not as black as some may like but it does not reflect much if at all no real chance of burn in and I can hang it on the wall.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks again Bill. Yes, please let me know if the new main-board makes any difference. During the gray scale calibration, did you use full frame IRE steps, or windowed frames due to this LCD backlight bleeding?


Also forgot to ask as I didn't see it, but is there an overscan setting and horizontal/vertical adjustment (though I need to see if my DVD player also has this positional adjustment)? Can this set do 1:1 bitmap if fed a 768p signal?


Cheers,

daggerNC
 

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I have used both and have not see or recorded much if any diff


You might be sol on the overscan as I have found no settings for this, I still have hope.


The TV handles 720 better than 1080i that much I do know.


On the PC input I had no overscan and it took 1360X768 with no problems, I have not tried my PC on HDMI yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tower101 /forum/post/0


Right now my TV has 2.5 over-scan on the sides 3 on the top 4 on the bottom, component and HDMI

That's close to what I remember seeing on the overcan pattern, but I'll check with more detail after I see if my DVD player has ability to shift so I can center the picture. I read that Samsung 1080i processing actually converts it to 540p then scales it to native 768p - BAD Samsung, BAD! My plans are to ouput 720p as the max from my cable box. For DVD, in the LCD Forum, a number of people have said to use either 480i or 480p - this makes sense since you usually don't want double scaling: 480i to 720p to 768p. Maybe Onkyo will send me a special firmware image that will allow me to set output to 768p



Cheers,

daggerNC
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just set the LBE options to the values you provided Bill. Then turned on DNIe demo and turned on the cable box and paused a picture and went thru all the Picture Mode settings. I know you said this will "turn down" the DNIe, but even with the changes it was still very visible on all settings with Movie being the least noticeable but again a bit too dull....... Now, if all Samsung owners in the world would call Samsung and complain about not having option to disable DNIe...........
 

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It still works in demo it has its own settings. Put up a plug pattern if your using DVE try the one with 80% in the middle then put your settings back to factory or if you are factory settings use the 20% set so you can see the 3 bars on either side then go to 80% at least the 2 bars at the ends are gone then put in the settings I gave you, the bars should now look the same as they did at 20%. DNIe is now turned down.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggerNC /forum/post/0


That's close to what I remember seeing on the overcan pattern, but I'll check with more detail after I see if my DVD player has ability to shift so I can center the picture. I read that Samsung 1080i processing actually converts it to 540p then scales it to native 768p - BAD Samsung, BAD! My plans are to ouput 720p as the max from my cable box. For DVD, in the LCD Forum, a number of people have said to use either 480i or 480p - this makes sense since you usually don't want double scaling: 480i to 720p to 768p. Maybe Onkyo will send me a special firmware image that will allow me to set output to 768p



Cheers,

daggerNC

All true I am thinking about a video processor
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tower101 /forum/post/0


It still works in demo it has its own settings. Put up a plug pattern if your using DVE try the one with 80% in the middle then put your settings back to factory or if you are factory settings use the 20% set so you can see the 3 bars on either side then go to 80% at least the 2 bars at the ends are gone then put in the settings I gave you, the bars should now look the same as they did at 20%. DNIe is now turned down.

Man, how did you figure this out??? Thanks again!


This uneven backlight issue is really bothering me now that I've seen it (that's how it always goes - ignorance is bliss!). Hoping things go well with your factory repair visit this week. I'm thinking of calling Samsung to either come take a look or maybe this set just needs to go back (but then I'm stuck with not only trying to get a different set like a plasma that will fit, but I'll also likely be looking at a hefty price difference).....
 

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tower101, how can I put the set into Movie mode when in the SM, so that I can calibrate the White Balance settings to D65? It always seems to be in Dynamic mode when in the SM?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WPWoodJr /forum/post/0


tower101, how can I put the set into Movie mode when in the SM, so that I can calibrate the White Balance settings to D65? It always seems to be in Dynamic mode when in the SM?

Yes


W/B movie menu


Movie mode on

Mode Movie

Color Tone (what ever you want warm1 is a good starting point)


This only affects movie but if you make changes in the White Balance menu that will affect Movie. So if you set movie mode and then change White Balance you will have to go back and reset movie mode.


This is for a LNS it also works for a LNT and a HPT though the menu is slightly different.
 

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I looked in the service menu of my 92d and found that in the calibration section PC has "failure" next to it. Should it be like that? I am considering calling the service shop in town and asking them about it. I was in there looking because after setting my Oppo 980 to RGB the picture was washed out and full of black crush.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace_1000 /forum/post/13633712


I looked in the service menu of my 92d and found that in the calibration section PC has "failure" next to it. Should it be like that? I am considering calling the service shop in town and asking them about it. I was in there looking because after setting my Oppo 980 to RGB the picture was washed out and full of black crush.

Entering the service menu is essentially auto voiding the warranty. If you tell them you were messing around in there they wont help you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi /forum/post/13635952


Entering the service menu is essentially auto voiding the warranty. If you tell them you were messing around in there they wont help you.

I knew that would void it so i explained the problem without telling them i was in there. I just explained the color issues etc but since my tv was 2 weeks out of warranty they said they wouldn't give me any help. Thier customer service is something to be desired, i have had problems with them in the past but luckily the store i purchase the HTIB from took it back after 7 months and i got myself an onkyo :). I might give a repair shop in town a call though and find how much it costs to redo the factory calibration hdmi, pc, comp calibration .......
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace_1000 /forum/post/13636188


I knew that would void it so i explained the problem without telling them i was in there. I just explained the color issues etc but since my tv was 2 weeks out of warranty they said they wouldn't give me any help. Thier customer service is something to be desired, i have had problems with them in the past but luckily the store i purchase the HTIB from took it back after 7 months and i got myself an onkyo :). I might give a repair shop in town a call though and find how much it costs to redo the factory calibration hdmi, pc, comp calibration .......

Someone here had a service manual and explained how you can do it yourself.

Essentially each "calibration" requires a certain pattern to be displayed on a certain input and it will auto calibrate. I think HDMI requires contrast bars, component is color bars, and a couple more...


Save that, have someone give you the default settings for the various options.
 

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I have asked for the default settings in the forum for my tv, but no word yet. I talked to a service guy here in town and he says i can bring the tv in tomorrow and he will have a look at it. He only chargers $60 an hour to look at/do any calibration that is required, i am thinking i will go that route because that isn't a bad deal if it is done correctly. He is Samsung certified too.
 
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