AVS Forum banner

21 - 40 of 103 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,387 Posts
Unusual unless you are talking open box items. especially when you use the adjective heavily. This just did not occur. Prices were stable until the end of December (although quantities were very limited at Best Buy for example). No price reductions what so ever. Just the opposite when the calendar switched to 2014. But in fairness Samsung does not have the plasma rep of Panasonic, and many already purchased the Panasonic plasmas. So demand may be less.
Actually Amazon had a big late 2013 and early 2014 sale that ran for weeks (I got my 65VT60 for just under $2300 but all sizes and models were on sale). I forget how many units but they must have received almost everything left that Panasonic had. I ordered mine about mid-way through. From what other said - and what I can recall - there were around 1,000 65" VTs and they had about 500ish left when I ordered on Jan 1. Several retail chains ran incentives and price matches over the period. Can't remember who it was in Florida that was even lower for a couple days. In any event, once Amazon ran out there wasn't a whole lot of stock left so prices moved up swiftly.

Point being - there was indeed a big deep sale on remaining stock. It wasn't stupid cheap but about as good as one can expect for a high end display.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
265 Posts
Very unfortunate, if not surprising. The writing was on the wall at CES when Samsung didn't display any plasmas. Guess 4K and curved screens rule the day now.

The F8500 was a fantastic display, grab em while you can! I'd go to Magnolia this weekend and try to get a nice July 4th holiday deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
I believe Panasonic was quoted to end production in March 2014, and sets were hard to find starting in December; gone in January.
Close, but not exact. I bought my 60" VT60 on .. checks Amazon purchase history .. February 7, 2014.

Prices on Amazon were jacked up the middle of Feb -- I know because I was literally checking them every day then :) You *still* can get a Panny plasma but around 3x the original MSRP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,387 Posts
They are eliminating their best performing / best value displays, which forces you to overpay for an inferior product, just to bolster their profit margin.
Business 101 - make more money. What is sad in this case is that the market itself usually won't allow such moves but they are largely kept ignorant in how to evaluate displays.

This has been going on forever (turn up brightness on the tube TV you want to sell) but I think it's even more integral to the business model these days. Bottom line, new display technology is losing the "wow" factor for the average buyer because we are approaching the capability of the human eye. The performance of top/bottom models are converging and your dollar goes a lot further. They have to constantly sell the "new thing" whether that's 3D, curved screens, smart TV, 4K, whatever.

Example with 4K is that within most normal viewing distances and screen sizes - it really won't matter. This is why you see them on the end caps at Best Buy so people are within a couple feet of them being fed the highest quality native 4k feeds. They definitely don't want these on the wall with people sitting back 10-12 feet and side-by-side evaluating against far cheaper models. Not that more resolution is bad, merely that the average person likely won't see it at average distance/screen size.

That said, plasma was around for a long time. If you missed the Kuro there was the most recent Panasonics, if you missed those there is still the 8500. If despite years of plasma popularity decline you didn't notice and missed all of these - probably wasn't that important to you anyway. Time will settle things out and while there may be a dip in quality today, OLED or something else will bring us back into glide path.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
This is really sad to read. I knew I should have grabbed a Panasonic about a year or so ago when I had the chance at Costco, but I had a damned wedding to pay for. Now I'm back in the market for a 65"ish display and there really isn't anything that appeals to me. Should I just wait it out a few years for OLED and stick with my good ol' TH-50PX60U ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,604 Posts
This is really sad to read. I knew I should have grabbed a Panasonic about a year or so ago when I had the chance at Costco, but I had a damned wedding to pay for. Now I'm back in the market for a 65"ish display and there really isn't anything that appeals to me. Should I just wait it out a few years for OLED and stick with my good ol' TH-50PX60U ?
I've got a 5 year old Pio 600M.
Debating on whether to get a 65" F8500 at Paul's and save some $, or Cleveland Plasma and save some peace of mind, or like an earlier poster said, Magnolia this weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
in all fairness. the idea of using anything other than a front projector for a 'theater' seems crazy to me too.


I just like the plasmas for all the casual viewing I do. cheap LCD's are just way too much of a step down, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to HAVE to spend a lot of money for high end dimming lcd's just so you can watch some tv shows without being annoyed about the black levels.


guess there's still LG, for now.

Using a quality, high-end plasma for a dedicated theatre is exactly what I had planned on doing until OLED came around. Now it seems both are dead though. Front projectors starting at $15k just aren't a possibility for me. When designing the theatre build-out $5k was dedicated to the display. Even using all the wiggle-room money in the budget for the entire project, I can only get up to about $7500. That's not going to cut it apparently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
^^^
First off, plasma ain't dead yet. If that's what you want, there are still plenty of sources for a Sammy 64F8500 that would meet your needs.

That said, if you're building a dedicated home theater, why choose a TV as your display? Samsung's largest plasma at 64" occupies too small an angle of view at any normal seating distance for a truly cinematic HT experience. For that you need front projection!

As I posted to your identical lament in the Samsung Pulls Plug on Plasma Production thread, you can get a good front projector (Optoma HD25-LV) & screen (Elite ER120WH1) for around $1200. If your display budget is ~ $5K, then JVC's X35 and a Da-Lite Cinema Contour 133" diag. High Power screen (Model #87175V) are within reach. Watching movies on a 133" screen would provide a far better HT experience than you'll get from even the best 64" plasma.

AV Science (Mike Garrett) has been very helpful with my pj & screen purchases. Their prices are great and Mike was able to help me order a High Power screen even though Da-Lite had yanked that material from their website while they work through some manufacturing difficulties. Anyway, best of luck with your new home theater, whichever way you decide to go!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,997 Posts
Using a quality, high-end plasma for a dedicated theatre is exactly what I had planned on doing until OLED came around. Now it seems both are dead though. Front projectors starting at $15k just aren't a possibility for me. When designing the theatre build-out $5k was dedicated to the display. Even using all the wiggle-room money in the budget for the entire project, I can only get up to about $7500. That's not going to cut it apparently.
from everything I've seen, my jvc x35($2850) matches or beats the overall picture quality of my f8500($2800)


if you want to spend 15k and buy a projector that destroys the image quality of plasma, that's cool. but you certainly don't need to spend that much just to match it. it may cost extra for room treatments and such, but I'd argue for a 'theater' you should be doing that anyway.


so again, for me, the idea of spend MORE money on a flat panel than what it costs for a comparable projector seems crazy. I'm more than willing to watch all my movies in the dark(I would anyway), and getting the extra size makes a huge difference.


7500 should easily get you a great projector, quality screen, and even a nice mount if needed. the real difference is that there still is a 'high end' in the projector market. but don't be fooled, a 'top of the line' plasma today is comparable to the mid-range projectors out there. in a sense, the 'best' flat panels are mid-range displays. and they simple don't make high end plasma/lcd anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
from everything I've seen, my jvc x35($2850) matches or beats the overall picture quality of my f8500($2800)


if you want to spend 15k and buy a projector that destroys the image quality of plasma, that's cool. but you certainly don't need to spend that much just to match it. it may cost extra for room treatments and such, but I'd argue for a 'theater' you should be doing that anyway.


so again, for me, the idea of spend MORE money on a flat panel than what it costs for a comparable projector seems crazy. I'm more than willing to watch all my movies in the dark(I would anyway), and getting the extra size makes a huge difference.


7500 should easily get you a great projector, quality screen, and even a nice mount if needed. the real difference is that there still is a 'high end' in the projector market. but don't be fooled, a 'top of the line' plasma today is comparable to the mid-range projectors out there. in a sense, the 'best' flat panels are mid-range displays. and they simple don't make high end plasma/lcd anymore.

I've sent a number of email out trying to get help with this issue. My experience so far has been the responses all line up neatly with the vested interests of the party responding. I have absolutely no desire to drop $15k on a projector. If I could afford that, I would be very close to the price point to purchase one of the large plasma reference monitors that Panasonic still churns out. The 85" can be had for $12K and the 103" can be had for around $23k. So no, I'll skip the five-figure (or six-figure) displays, thanks. I simply want a display that can replace my Panasonic VT60 (without a noticeable loss in PQ, especially the blacks), but it needs to be able to run 10-14 hours a day and be used more or less the way a primary display would. That seems to be a hold-up with projectors, something I never even considered until about a month ago when I started casually perusing plasma alternatives.

As far as size goes, sitting in front of the 60" screen, we find our optimum comfort level at 10 feet. Although I could probably go up to 110" on a 2.35:1 screen in the new room, my guess is that I would be losing the second row of seating to move the "money seat" to a comfortable viewing distance. Such a small screen is another reason I have stuck with televisions at this point.

I'll keep looking. Hopefully you are right and I can find something to suit my situation when I finish getting the room built.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
^^^
I suggested a $2K LED/Laser ViewSonic projector to your similar post in the Samsung Pulls Plug on Plasma Production thread, so I won't regurgitate that here. Based on your additional comments in this thread about being satisfied viewing a 60" TV from 10', it sounds like projectors just aren't of interest to you. Your current viewing angle, which you're apparently satisfied with, is 25 degrees. My home theater, in comparison, has a 126" screen at an 11' viewing distance which results in a viewing angle of 45 degrees. To me, a 45 degree viewing angle provides an immersive & cinematic home theater experience. I just received a 64F8500 for casual TV watching (10' distance - 26 degrees). There's no comparison as to which display I prefer when watching movies, especially since many were filmed in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio which reduces the viewable area by nearly a third.

You also mention having a second tier of seating in your new HT which would mean a viewing angle of less than 20 degrees for those poor folks if you go with a TV. This is just my personal preference, but it seems like a waste to build a dedicated home theater and then use a small display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
^^^
I suggested a $2K LED/Laser ViewSonic projector to your similar post in the Samsung Pulls Plug on Plasma Production thread, so I won't regurgitate that here. Based on your additional comments in this thread about being satisfied viewing a 60" TV from 10', it sounds like projectors just aren't of interest to you. Your current viewing angle, which you're apparently satisfied with, is 25 degrees. My home theater, in comparison, has a 126" screen at an 11' viewing distance which results in a viewing angle of 45 degrees. To me, a 45 degree viewing angle provides an immersive & cinematic home theater experience. I just received a 64F8500 for casual TV watching (10' distance - 26 degrees). There's no comparison as to which display I prefer when watching movies, especially since many were filmed in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio which reduces the viewable area by nearly a third.

You also mention having a second tier of seating in your new HT which would mean a viewing angle of less than 20 degrees for those poor folks if you go with a TV. This is just my personal preference, but it seems like a waste to build a dedicated home theater and then use a small display.

I appreciate your suggestion. I even mentioned it in the email I sent off to the AVS store (which I had no idea existed until yesterday) asking for help with the issue. I actually do like large screens and an immersive experience. the 60" from 10' nearly fills my vision (but not quite). Moving back to 12-13, I figure the 85"- 110" will likely retain that same feeling. I have no horse in the race of projector vs plasma vs LCD. It's just been my experience to this point that the plasma has performed best across the board. I was looking forward to OLED because I expected it to beat all of them. If I can find a projector that can hang in there versus the Panasonic VT, I'd be more than happy to give it a whirl. I just need to make sure I'm going the right direction, because this is likely the last display I will buy for the next 5-7 years, and if I'm lucky, the next display I buy after that time will be the last one I need to buy ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
The PQ of the ViewSonic Pro9000 isn't up to your VT60, but it would be under budget and it's light engine should have a long life. Given a choice between watching movies on a small, accurate display or an image that's quadruple the size but not as accurate, I'd go large. Image size is a significant part of the home theater experience. Sitting 10' away from a 60" display is just watching TV.

Anyway, your preferences are all that matter for your HT. Just throwing out some food for thought. I'm very pleased with the PQ of my 64F8500, so if that size is sufficient for you then I'm sure you'd be happy with that display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,997 Posts
I've sent a number of email out trying to get help with this issue. My experience so far has been the responses all line up neatly with the vested interests of the party responding. I have absolutely no desire to drop $15k on a projector. If I could afford that, I would be very close to the price point to purchase one of the large plasma reference monitors that Panasonic still churns out. The 85" can be had for $12K and the 103" can be had for around $23k. So no, I'll skip the five-figure (or six-figure) displays, thanks. I simply want a display that can replace my Panasonic VT60 (without a noticeable loss in PQ, especially the blacks), but it needs to be able to run 10-14 hours a day and be used more or less the way a primary display would. That seems to be a hold-up with projectors, something I never even considered until about a month ago when I started casually perusing plasma alternatives.

As far as size goes, sitting in front of the 60" screen, we find our optimum comfort level at 10 feet. Although I could probably go up to 110" on a 2.35:1 screen in the new room, my guess is that I would be losing the second row of seating to move the "money seat" to a comfortable viewing distance. Such a small screen is another reason I have stuck with televisions at this point.

I'll keep looking. Hopefully you are right and I can find something to suit my situation when I finish getting the room built.
again, I have no idea where 15k is coming from. that's about double what the best jvc costs, and I think possibly even more than the cheaper 4k sony is actually selling for. get 15k out of your head, that's NOT the price of a plasma-like projector. that's the price of a ultra high end projector.


my x35 has better blacks than my f8500. I'd guess the newer jvcs with the DI have even better blacks than a vt60, when in a dark enough room anyway.
your concerns about ease of use are somewhat valid. getting something with an LED light source would solve those, but so far there's limited selection of good quality ones. you may want to enquire with avs about the cine 1000. I believe they had one at a clearance price. it's supposedly VERY good and comes with an LED source. I'm not sure if it'll match vt60 blacks, but it should be close by the sounds of it. and it offers you all the other things you want: instant on, worry-free use, life-time light source, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,772 Posts
Got to step up my plans to buy a Samsung 51F5300.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
again, I have no idea where 15k is coming from. that's about double what the best jvc costs, and I think possibly even more than the cheaper 4k sony is actually selling for. get 15k out of your head, that's NOT the price of a plasma-like projector. that's the price of a ultra high end projector.


my x35 has better blacks than my f8500. I'd guess the newer jvcs with the DI have even better blacks than a vt60, when in a dark enough room anyway.
your concerns about ease of use are somewhat valid. getting something with an LED light source would solve those, but so far there's limited selection of good quality ones. you may want to enquire with avs about the cine 1000. I believe they had one at a clearance price. it's supposedly VERY good and comes with an LED source. I'm not sure if it'll match vt60 blacks, but it should be close by the sounds of it. and it offers you all the other things you want: instant on, worry-free use, life-time light source, etc.

Your suggestion is the same as the one that customer service at the AVS store recommended. They do, in fact, have an open-box available for $6500 right now. What's unfortunate for me is that I'm not purchasing until probably the beginning of December. The MSRP on the projector is $13k. Apparently I also will need a special lens or Lumagen Video Processor (though I am still trying to figure out what that does). So that does put me back up to the $15k window. This is all without the screen too, but I've seen plenty of high-quality solutions for screens at very reasonable prices, especially over at Da-lite.

I am hopeful though that since there is a projector available at 50% off for an open-box now, that I'll be able to shop around online and find a similar price when the time comes.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Like Panasonic previously, such sad and frustrating news to hear of the end of Samsung plasma. Anticipating this demise, I have just purchased 3 Samsung plasmas in the past month, all at bargain prices. I got a 51F4500 for $399, a 51F5300 for $529, and a 60F5300 for $679. Worked some overtime and the first two were paid for in cash. All models are excellent in their own distinctive style. I also have a 51E7000 and a 50ST60 from previous purchases. Currently I am actively using the 4500, 7000, and ST60 in 3 different rooms. The other 2 5300's are on hold for future use. And my mother has a 43F4500 in her bedroom. I am a plasma man all the way, and sorry to see the end coming near. But I am at least prepared to make it last for a while. And believe it or not, the lowest priced, entry level F4500 just may be my favorite out of them all, as the pic quality is excellent for local antenna and cable TV. Although the E7000 and ST60 are awesome for Blu-Ray movies.
I guess it's safe to say you are a plazma man then ? 60f5300 here :D
 
21 - 40 of 103 Posts
Top