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Hmm, since November 30 is the target date for Samsung to close down their plasma operations, I wonder if they are going to have a big Black Friday blowout. I would love to be able to snag an 8500 cheap. I wonder if I should start saving my pennies.
I don't know if Samsung will, but places like BB might do it just to get rid of it.
 

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That maybe true on the equipment side, but the question I keep asking myself is where are they going to get the extra bandwidth to support 4k sets? Current broadcast resolutions can't even support 1080p never mind 4k, and due to the popularity of streaming, BD sales and rentals are waning. That being said, the more congested the internet gets, the more issues we will continue to see with CDN's and ISP's serving even standard HD content.

Ian
4K is completely useless, a marketing gimmick to sell more sets. The general public has no clue and will lap it up and "enjoy" the upscale blur for years to come.:rolleyes:

About bandwidth, you are correct. There is only so much Ku and Ka spectrum to go around, and they are already compressing to the hilt to squeeze 720p into it. 1080p requires double the bandwidth and I dont know of a single RF broadcast that uses it. 4K is about 4x 1080p. Its ridiculous. As I discovered with comparing the F4500 and F5300, we are not even close to utilizing the full resolution of 1080p sets yet let alone 4K.

Then theres 4K gaming, which is just as bad. You need $1500 worth of todays video cards to get a remotely playable framerate on todays games with 4K res. Whats the point? We've all seen the shootout where a Samsung F4500 craps all over an $1100 4K LCD. If they would focus more on PQ rather than resolution, we would all be better off.
 

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I'll be interested in UHD if it also comes with increased color bit depth, higher frame rates(i'll have to see this before I decide it's better though), or HDR(again, need to try it first). I'm not really interested in more pixels, but there's also proposed improvements to each pixel that would be worth looking into. I imagine the first UHD product I buy will be a projector, and I'm hoping that won't be for another 3-5yrs at least.


I do think it's unfortunate they couldn't market UHD as an improved 1080p resolution. give us the same improvements in color and dynamic range without the unnecessary jump in pixels. this could have potentially lengthened the life of plasma, and reduced the amount of compression that will inevitably be used. we all know an uncompressed(or barely compressed) 1080p signal is going to look a lot nicer than a heavily compressed UHD signal.


I almost feel like true UHD sources are going to be a bit of a 'ultra high end' niche market. there will be heavily compressed 'uhd' sources for the average person to enjoy on their low quality UHD display. but the good stuff, the 120gb per movie stuff, is not suitable for any currently practical delivery method. maybe they'll figure out a disc for it, but it seems more likely to be delivered via large HDD's, or expensive download services.
 
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Hello,
Sad news indeed. Hopefully the Brazilians will keep the PDP industry going, but this is the end it would seem.

I do think the major factors driving PDP's demise were energy consumption and shipping/transportation weight. While always getting thinner and lighter, glass just weighs more. With energy costs being what they are coupled with substantial legislation favoring energy efficiency and... That is there were already billions spent on PDP plants with that kind of investment it is hard to fathom simply abandoning this level of investment unless legislative conditions were not a prime factor.

As for the FP camp, while the price/performance ratio is completely in your favor, the physical space/ambient light factors simply make it a non factor for many. Saying nothing of WAF and true skills required to make a FP setup special. My younger brother is using an absurdly expensive speaker array and associated electronics, but completely cheaped out on the projector end and is lacking the seamless integration that the best HT's have. While he lives quite close, it drives me nuts to watch anything there. Anywho.


Hopefully by most all R&D now primarily focused on one tech (not that it was not that way already I suppose) perhaps someone like Panasonic will pull off something truly special.
 

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I'll be interested in UHD if it also comes with increased color bit depth, higher frame rates(i'll have to see this before I decide it's better though), or HDR(again, need to try it first). I'm not really interested in more pixels, but there's also proposed improvements to each pixel that would be worth looking into. I imagine the first UHD product I buy will be a projector, and I'm hoping that won't be for another 3-5yrs at least.



I almost feel like true UHD sources are going to be a bit of a 'ultra high end' niche market. there will be heavily compressed 'uhd' sources for the average person to enjoy on their low quality UHD display. but the good stuff, the 120gb per movie stuff, is not suitable for any currently practical delivery method. maybe they'll figure out a disc for it, but it seems more likely to be delivered via large HDD's, or expensive download services.


RE tubetwisrer

I think I read somewhere that maybe Sony or someone was working on a high density disc
something like 200 or more gb maybe even 500gb but mainly for data storage IIRC
even if they made a BD like that the replication costs would likely keep the prices up.
I think I read maybe Sony is working on a higher density compatible BD disk how higher density , I don't remember.

I think you are right about the average joe 4K vs the 1% 4K .

S**t ....can't remember what I had for lunch (or was it breakfast?) and I dont want to have the same thing for dinner :D
 

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Hello,
Sad news indeed. Hopefully the Brazilians will keep the PDP industry going, but this is the end it would seem.

I do think the major factors driving PDP's demise were energy consumption and shipping/transportation weight. While always getting thinner and lighter, glass just weighs more. With energy costs being what they are coupled with substantial legislation favoring energy efficiency and... That is there were already billions spent on PDP plants with that kind of investment it is hard to fathom simply abandoning this level of investment unless legislative conditions were not a prime factor.

As for the FP camp, while the price/performance ratio is completely in your favor, the physical space/ambient light factors simply make it a non factor for many. Saying nothing of WAF and true skills required to make a FP setup special. My younger brother is using an absurdly expensive speaker array and associated electronics, but completely cheaped out on the projector end and is lacking the seamless integration that the best HT's have. While he lives quite close, it drives me nuts to watch anything there. Anywho.


Hopefully by most all R&D now primarily focused on one tech (not that it was not that way already I suppose) perhaps someone like Panasonic will pull off something truly special.
front projection will never be completely mainstream. even with led based projectors, there are 'requirements' for front projection that won't fit many rooms.


but what I could see happening is a bit of a split between 'low end' value-based flat panels that ppl will use in rec rooms, living rooms, kitchens, bedrooms, kids rooms, or any place where critical viewing is not that important, and 'high end' front projectors that will be used in dedicated theater environments. I use the terms low end and high end pretty loosely here, as I don't know how much quality or price would actually vary between them. but for my own personal use, I would imagine a house with 3 or 4 cheap lcds, that I use casually when I don't really care about picture quality, and one front projector that I use in my main theater room for all serious viewing. I can't imagine ever bothering to use a projector in my bedroom, or living room, or any room where the tv is not the primary function. and on the other hand, I can't imagine ever going back to a 'small' flat panel, let alone a 'cheap' one for my home theater.


even though I could get a cheap projector, I'd never use one. and even though I can buy a really expensive, high end tv, I don't think I could ever justify it again. that's why I see this split occurring.
 

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Still hard to believe our only options will be LCD. OLED just doesn't seem a practical alternative at this moment.

As with others here, I too am skeptical about the potential offerings of 4k. I don't see too many broadcasters investing again in more expensive equipment even if they had the bandwidth.
 

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Still hard to believe our only options will be LCD. OLED just doesn't seem a practical alternative at this moment.

As with others here, I too am skeptical about the potential offerings of 4k. I don't see too many broadcasters investing again in more expensive equipment even if they had the bandwidth.
the real problem is that will be offering 'UHD' by any means possible. which means we're likely to see higher resolution, lower quality content in a few years time. :(
 

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Still hard to believe our only options will be LCD. OLED just doesn't seem a practical alternative at this moment.

As with others here, I too am skeptical about the potential offerings of 4k. I don't see too many broadcasters investing again in more expensive equipment even if they had the bandwidth.
I agree, which means all the new 4K tv's will have to upconvert 1080p material. Upconversion does not usually produce stellar results.
 

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Still hard to believe our only options will be LCD. OLED just doesn't seem a practical alternative at this moment.

As with others here, I too am skeptical about the potential offerings of 4k. I don't see too many broadcasters investing again in more expensive equipment even if they had the bandwidth.
the real problem is that will be offering 'UHD' by any means possible. which means we're likely to see higher resolution, lower quality content in a few years time. :(
I agree, which means all the new 4K tv's will have to upconvert 1080p material. Upconversion does not usually produce stellar results.

http://www.cnet.com/news/four-4k-tv-facts-you-must-know/

Ian
 
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Will Samsung keep parts for repair of its 2013 to 2014 PDPs or will they follow what Panasonic did and get rid of everything related to their PDPs?
 

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Panasonic pdp parts are still available, except for the panels, which wouldn't be cost effective to replace anyway. You can even order some of them from Sears. I've worked with these manufacturers when I was in the car audio and video business. If your set is under warranty, they aren't going to refund the cost of the product if it needs a wire harness, power supply or pc board.

Ian
 

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So this reviewer basically basically confirms what Ive been saying again and again, 4K is a completely useless and unnecessary feature in a TV set.

Based on my quite extensive experience comparing the two Sammy 51" 720p and 1080p sets together, I have confidently concluded that resolution is an EXTREMELY overrated facet of picture quality, especially with watching actual video and not just still pictures. I pulled my hair out for 2 weeks, debating whether or not to return my 5300 for another 4500 to save $100 and preferable PQ for my EDTV game systems, before finally deciding to keep the 1080p set. I waffled till the 13th day of my 15 day Best Buy return window!

From normal viewing distances for OTA HD video, the PQ of these sets is virtually IDENTICAL. I know the tech world always needs a new gimmick to continue to drive sales, and theyve latched onto 4K, but believe me-- better contrast, color, motion, scaler, and screen uniformity are MUCH more important than higher resolution. I think 720p res was set as a video benchmark years ago for good reason-- it is where the law of diminishing returns really kicks in when it comes to screen resolution when watching video....
 

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So this reviewer basically basically confirms what Ive been saying again and again, 4K is a completely useless and unnecessary feature in a TV set.

Based on my quite extensive experience comparing the two Sammy 51" 720p and 1080p sets together, I have confidently concluded that resolution is an EXTREMELY overrated facet of picture quality, especially with watching actual video and not just still pictures. I pulled my hair out for 2 weeks, debating whether or not to return my 5300 for another 4500 to save $100 and preferable PQ for my EDTV game systems, before finally deciding to keep the 1080p set. I waffled till the 13th day of my 15 day Best Buy return window!

From normal viewing distances for OTA HD video, the PQ of these sets is virtually IDENTICAL. I know the tech world always needs a new gimmick to continue to drive sales, and theyve latched onto 4K, but believe me-- better contrast, color, motion, scaler, and screen uniformity are MUCH more important than higher resolution. I think 720p res was set as a video benchmark years ago for good reason-- it is where the law of diminishing returns really kicks in when it comes to screen resolution when watching video....
It's useless until there becomes enough 4k program material to support it. I've seen some larger 4k sets with 4k demos and they looked pretty impressive. That being said, I agree with your assessment and so does the ISF which list resolution as the least important aspect when it comes to picture quality. Even the older 1024X768 Pioneer Kuro's received rave reviews. I've owned a 720p PDP and the real issue I have with these sets is the SDE, but that's obviously not a problem for you.

Ian ;)
 

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Panasonic pdp parts are still available, except for the panels, which wouldn't be cost effective anyway. You can even order some of them from Sears. I've worked with these manufacturers when I was in the car audio and video business. If your set is under warranty, they aren't going to refund the cost of the product if it needs a wire harness, power supply or pc board.

Ian
I didn't know Panasonic still kept any parts for their PDPs. When I had the issue with my S60 last year, the lady on the phone from Panasonic (who was supposedly in charge of the matter) said there was nothing left behind from their PDP business (no parts or full sets). Are you sure any parts are kept available for a tech that is no longer in production?
 

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I didn't know Panasonic still kept any parts for their PDPs. When I had the issue with my S60 last year, the lady on the phone from Panasonic (who was supposedly in charge of the matter) said there was nothing left behind from their PDP business (no parts or full sets). Are you sure any parts are kept available for a tech that is no longer in production?
Either she's nuts or she meant no panels or full sets. I checked with them and with Sears who also sell OEM TV parts, even though my S60 has been problem free. Just out of curiosity, I also found parts for my 2010 C2 on-line. Since manufacturers have to make good on their warranties, they have to stock spare parts and they should have them for quite sometime.

Ian
 

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Either she's nuts or she meant no panels or full sets. I checked with them and with Sears who also sell OEM TV parts, even though my S60 has been problem free. Just out of curiosity, I also found parts for my 2010 C2 on-line. Since manufacturers have to make good on their warranties, they have to stock spare parts and they should have them for quite sometime.

Ian
Good to know; with the departure of Samsung from the PDP business (and LG following suit soon enough) I was worried if anything happened to my F5300 I'd have to settle for a $650 ish LED-LCD (which I doubt has comparable PQ to my plasma).
 

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I didn't know Panasonic still kept any parts for their PDPs. When I had the issue with my S60 last year, the lady on the phone from Panasonic (who was supposedly in charge of the matter) said there was nothing left behind from their PDP business (no parts or full sets). Are you sure any parts are kept available for a tech that is no longer in production?
It's true that there are no more 2013 TV sets in their distribution chain, but various boards and other parts are still available from Panasonic's consumer and pro parts departments (including various new and factory-refurbished boards) but like every year for the past 15 years, this inventory eventually gets depleted. Panasonic's parts department is still open for business. And if new or refurbished boards are no longer available from Panasonic, there are a number of independent parts suppliers that not only have new or used or refurbished boards available, some also have a service where you (or the service center you're dealing with) can send your boards in to be diagnosed and repaired then shipped back to you. Sadly, more and more service centers are not interested in or capable of doing their own in-house board diagnosis or repair, and some are even incapable and/or unwilling to diagnose the actual TV to see which board has failed - choosing instead to just ham-fist it and replace boards until the TV starts working again.

As for the plasma panel portion, some years back when the prices of the TVs were high (like $2000-$4000) they did have spare panel modules available after end of production as it was still economical to replace a $1,000 panel under warranty, but starting about 4 years ago when the price of the TVs had become much lower it became more economical to simply replace the TV as opposed to providing an expensive panel then also incurring the high cost to ship that panel to the service center then also pay the labor costs to replace said panel, so they stopped stockpiling spare panels and instead withheld some new TVs in stock for factory warranty replacement.

Samsung actually was more likely to replace the whole TV under warranty than Panasonic was since Panasonic TVs have more replaceable boards while Samsung saves cost by building their boards into the panel module itself, so if a driver board goes bad, they would have had to replace the whole panel since the board is not removable. Panasonic panel modules have less on-board electronics than the Samsungs do.
 
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