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That's a shame yet not at all surprising.

Regarding the LED based sets and the average consumer watching in a bright room and in some way-off dynamic mode...it isn't even just the average consumer that stuff appeals to as my time in the LCD forum here the last 2 months has shown most of the posters there (supposed enthusiasts) pretty much are the same way. I've had a guy debate me when it comes to calibrating TVs to the industry standard and thinks meters and calibration equipment are wrong while his dynamic mode style preference he tweaks by eye is accurate and other owners agreeing with him. Elsewhere I have seen people mock calibrating and mock people for actually wanting their image to represent what the people behind the content intended it to look like. Then you have these people thinking setting their contrast and brightness via a disc like that Disney WoW one means they have a calibrated image and most of those same people loving the soap opera effect. Or the people who think a higher resolution is the single key to image quality and think contrast ratio doesn't matter if the resolution is lower thereby implying a 4k res Seiki will trump a Kuro plasma.

So if so many supposed enthusiasts feel that way and don't give a rip about maximum image quality and accuracy then we who do care and want display performance to improve as time goes on rather than regress are in trouble and we're a dying breed. Hopefully OLED can survive if not simply for ultimate picture quality then to at least give the LED-LCD tech some competition.
 

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Bought mine for $2300 a few weeks ago thru my job and could not be happier.

I returned a Sony KDL55W850a due to it powering off by itself. Great set at a tremendous price. Many say it is one of the best LED displays out there. Even after being prepared for the technology, the limitations would have driven me nuts if I had kept the set for several years. Move two feet to the left and the picture would change. It was sheer "luck" that the set developed a power issue.

It was only after receiving the Samsung that my jaw truly fell to the floor. I had forgotten the striking advantages that plasma offers over any LCD/LED display. I can actually see a soccer ball during a soccer game (lol) and i dont have to worry about corner flashlighting and uniformity issues. The F8500 is brighter than previous plasma displays, so it seems that I have the best of both worlds for my particular viewing environment.

I sadly missed the Kuro train because i kept pushing it back. Once they left the stores I didnt wanna risk paying so much for either a used set, or an unauthorized reseller. Kicked myself to this day. Supply and demand really does kick in and you end up paying more than what you would spend now if you can even find what you want. I suggest anyone that can to pick up this Samsung (or a Panasonic if you still can). Prices on them will only go up.
 

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A week ago, I would have run out and bought the 8500 plasma when I saw this news. However, I recently purchased the 55 inch LG OLED from a certain retailer on sale at around $2000. I've been watching it for over a week now and can say that it puts my Pioneer 6010 and Panasonic ZT60 in second place. I figured, like everyone else that OLED was at least 3 or 4 years from being affordable. Keep watching. I think they are going to get aggressive on pricing sooner than later.
That retailer must have taken a massive bath on that deal. Good for you though.
 

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That's a shame yet not at all surprising.

Regarding the LED based sets and the average consumer watching in a bright room and in some way-off dynamic mode...it isn't even just the average consumer that stuff appeals to as my time in the LCD forum here the last 2 months has shown most of the posters there (supposed enthusiasts) pretty much are the same way. I've had a guy debate me when it comes to calibrating TVs to the industry standard and thinks meters and calibration equipment are wrong while his dynamic mode style preference he tweaks by eye is accurate and other owners agreeing with him. Elsewhere I have seen people mock calibrating and mock people for actually wanting their image to represent what the people behind the content intended it to look like. Then you have these people thinking setting their contrast and brightness via a disc like that Disney WoW one means they have a calibrated image and most of those same people loving the soap opera effect. Or the people who think a higher resolution is the single key to image quality and think contrast ratio doesn't matter if the resolution is lower thereby implying a 4k res Seiki will trump a Kuro plasma.

So if so many supposed enthusiasts feel that way and don't give a rip about maximum image quality and accuracy then we who do care and want display performance to improve as time goes on rather than regress are in trouble and we're a dying breed. Hopefully OLED can survive if not simply for ultimate picture quality then to at least give the LED-LCD tech some competition.
A lot of consumers love "torch" mode. That massive brightness and color "pop".

Not even close to accurate but I guess that is what sells.

I need to really baby my Samsung now.
 

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I've never owned a plasma display, and now that their demise is here I likely never will. However, are curved screens really replacing or becoming the standard? I really don't see the benefit of a curved display, unless it was 200" and you're only 8 feet in front of it, that way it can immerse your peripheral vision. With a 40-80" display, what's the point?
 

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A week ago, I would have run out and bought the 8500 plasma when I saw this news. However, I recently purchased the 55 inch LG OLED from a certain retailer on sale at around $2000. I've been watching it for over a week now and can say that it puts my Pioneer 6010 and Panasonic ZT60 in second place. I figured, like everyone else that OLED was at least 3 or 4 years from being affordable. Keep watching. I think they are going to get aggressive on pricing sooner than later.
I was really tempted by that deal but was scared off by the known and unknown issues of the tech. The known issues are the rapid onset IR/uneven wear and crippling input lag. The unkown issue that gives me the most pause is the panel lifespan: LG is quoting 30k hours for the 2nd gen 4k panels coming to market soon. However, I could find no information from them on the 1st gen 1080p panels available now. In the end I decided to stay with my VT60 as it is just about perfect and while it lacks the OLED's incredible contrast it comes with far fewer caveats.

I hope OLED finds a niche in the market to survive and thrive. It is easily the most exciting display advancement since the original Kuro.
 
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Are there recent plasma sales figures? I can't imagine they're very good, especially how they compare in bright showroom conditions. LCDs are probably much better for the average consumer that watches in a normally illuminated room and uses the vivid setting with raised sharpness. They don't need to be cautious about burns.
I'd like to see a breakdown per model.


I mean, I'd expect the lcd sales to be higher, there's 20lcd's on the market for every plasma...


imo, the f8500 looks every bit as bright and vivid under the harsh showroom lighting. according to my friend who I bought mine from last year, they were selling very well for them.


it's just unfortunate that the market can't support high quality items anymore. beyond the death of kuro, and the death of Panasonic, and now the death of Samsung and most likely plasma altogether, we've also seen the death of FALD(hopefully being resurrected now). it used to be that making the best product was a great way to stay in business, now it's a death sentence
 

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A lot of consumers love "torch" mode. That massive brightness and color "pop".

Not even close to accurate but I guess that is what sells.

I need to really baby my Samsung now.
Like "bump and sizzle" speakers, people love that "scooped" sound.

"I'd like some torch mode video to go along with my bump and sizzle audio. Can you take care of that for me please?"

I'm sad to see the 8500 go. As I was with the Kuro (mine is still looking good) and the ZT/ST/VT. Long live plasma. Maybe Pany's FALD will best them?

Cheers...
 

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I have been using my Panasonic 50ST50 for a couple years now. I saw your thread Mark on masking the LED TV durinf Pulp Fiction which I would have done too because those black levels were terrible. It has worked flawless besides the buzzing sound I get when a bright scene or comp background is up. I researched it is a part that rattles loose or possibly screws. But it is not loud so I haven't done anything. I did see a 65 inch LG UHD TV at video only for a chunk that I liked. I have been advised to wait and go for the Vizio 65 inch P series UHD that will come out soon. Can be had for a little over 2k if a good deal. I have been very pleased with my TV and TBO have never done anything on the video side as audio has been my love. But recently I bought a Oppo BD103D and the Spears & Munsill video calibration disc. The calibration and darbee processing have started the videophile bug in me. Of course we all have different ceilings and mine being younger than most here, not tons of disposable income, and house saving makes it a "on the fence decision" to spring for a bigger UHD TV. But I think the 65 inch Viz... P series can be done.
 

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While I love my Plasma(s), lets hope LG really does keep up with OLED and they do continue to make them. This years 4k/UHD OLED *will* most likely be the best display ever made if it actually appears. And if people buy them (I hope so) prices will drop eventually.

Plasma had to come a long way before it was at "Kuro" levels. OLED, if people keep supporting it will get to where the masses can all have it and all of the kinks worked out.

And if not, honestly a good LCD panel with properly implemented FALD looks amazing. The sharp elite was a great example of this; with it's major quirk of being slightly off with cyan color (but thats really nit picking, no plasma has accurate color luminance overall). There appears to be a rush of FALD sets coming back this year; so lets hope that trend continues as that tech really improved LCD technology. IMO none of the manufacturers have had FALD sets out long enough to work out all of the kinks/bugs. And Sharp wanted WAY too much for their last attempt at FALD.
 

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Here it is!

I only paid $2,200 for my 64 inch D series NEW (which was upgraded to an E series free of charge due to the FBr defect).
 

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A week ago, I would have run out and bought the 8500 plasma when I saw this news. However, I recently purchased the 55 inch LG OLED from a certain retailer on sale at around $2000. I've been watching it for over a week now and can say that it puts my Pioneer 6010 and Panasonic ZT60 in second place. I figured, like everyone else that OLED was at least 3 or 4 years from being affordable. Keep watching. I think they are going to get aggressive on pricing sooner than later.
That's good to hear about OLED quality. However, until they can produce a 65 inch OLED for the price of the F8500, I will not be in the market. That's ok though, as I can wait 4 or 5 years now that I have my 8500. The only thing I worry about is that OLED will go the way of plasma by that time, since LG is now the only real player in OLED. Plus, will they even be able to make a sub $3500 65 inch 4K OLED by then?
 

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Mark Henninger
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Discussion Starter #56
I only paid $2,200 for my 64 inch D series NEW (which was upgraded to an E series free of charge due to the FBr defect).
Yeah, now that I'm looking around, I'm seeing a few new PN64F8500s out there for $2,200-$2,300. I'm not sure I have the energy to go through yet another exchange, the one I got calibrated perfectly. I'm going to check the hours on the panel and make a decision.
 

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Say it ain't so! The Curse of the Kuro strikes yet again. Samsung plans to end plasma panel production by November 30, 2014, marking the end of an era.

------

According to Reuters UK, Samsung SDI Corp. is exiting the plasma business. It's a very short article that lists November 30th as the target date for the shutdown. In the Reuters piece, a statement from Samsung blames the decision on a decline in demand for plasma displays. Last year, Samsung's own UNxxF8500 plasma line was often cited as one of the best-performing TVs ever made, whereas the curved screen LED-edgelit LCD UHDTVs taking its place are an unknown quantity.

Read the original article here: Samsung SDI says to end plasma panel display production - Reuters UK

It's only been a few days since I went to a local Best Buy and saw Samsung's new curved-screen TVs going up on a wall. Over to the side, I saw a 64-inch Samsung UN64F8500 plasma on open-box clearance. I bought it immediately because just a few days earlier at CE Week in NYC, a Samsung exec told me that the F8500 was going to start to become "hard to find." Since I had already missed out on buying a Panasonic plasma in 2013, I did not want to take any chances—the enduring fame of Pioneer's Kuro plasma is a lesson in how each successive year does not necessarily bring an even-better performing television to market.


When I saw this display go up at a local Best Buy last week, I knew it was the beginning of the end for Samsung plasma.

It's entirely possible that Samsung's decision to end plasma panel production will truly spell the end for the original flat-screen TV technology. LG is the last major TV manufacturer that has not announced an end to plasma production; however, given the current industry trends it's likely that day is not far away. The irony is plasma image quality kept getting better and better but each time a TV maker set a new performance benchmark, it turned out to be the kiss of death for the product line. It happened to Pioneer, Panasonic, and now Samsung. At this point, I'm just glad I found a reference plasma when I did.

I sincerely hope that FALD LCDs and OLED displays can fill plasma's shoes. The new generation of TVs will be more energy efficient, larger, and boast higher resolutions than what plasma offered. Unfortunately, it might take a few years before another display technology matures to the point where it offers the same price/performance ratio achieved by reference plasma HDTVs. Hopefully OLED will become more affordable in the near future; for now, it's a sad day for videophiles who appreciate what plasma has to offer in terms of picture quality.

Here's a recent article I wrote about how I wound up buying a plasma this year, despite all the new LED-lit LCDs on the market: Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014

Check out this discussion in the Plasma Flat Panel Displays forum: Samsung makes it official

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For real are you surprise the handwriting was on the wall, when they carried 8500 from 2013 and some my threads I said this was there last year of making Plasma TV's.
 

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Yeah, now that I'm looking around, I'm seeing a few new PN64F8500s out there for $2,200-$2,300. I'm not sure I have the energy to go through yet another exchange, the one I got calibrated perfectly. I'm going to check the hours on the panel and make a decision.

PM me as to where please :D

Djoel
 

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From a consumer's perspective, the timing of this decision sucks. As things are now, it is still unclear whether or not the flagship 2014 FALD models from Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, or (possibly) Vizio have surpassed the F8500 plasma in overall PQ. I have not heard any consensus that the Samsung HU9000, nor any of the other edge-lit TV's currently available from any manufacturer, has superior PQ to the F8500. As a result, we are forced to take a gamble...assume that they are not better and buy an F8500 now or assume that they are better and wait until they become available. By the time that happens, it might be impossible to find an F8500. I would have been much more comfortable making this decision if the announcement had come after VE's next shootout (assuming that the FALD models from at least Sony, Panasonic, and Toshiba are included in it).
I agree with you. I had pretty much decided over the weekend to go with the 64" F8500 after the VE shootout decided to focus on the 78"+ crowd which isn't going to tell us much about the latest gen of FALD sets. I went out and bought a 64" F8500 over lunch. Had a time frame and MSRP for the 65" Vizio Reference series been available I might have held out.

I wonder if they will pull the F8500 from the shootout given that it might not be a real purchase option by the time the shootout results are released. On the one hand, if they can show that the F8500's PQ has been surpassed then that could push current plasma owners to upgrade (good for the tv industry and retailers of high-end 4K LCD's in particular). On the other hand, if the F8500 wins, that could drive folks who need a new TV to ebay for used/refurbished plasmas, while reinforcing current plasma owners' decision to stick with what they have.
I'm curious to see if it gets included or not as well. It could cut either way if still included. Drive demand and prices for the F8500 or prove that the F8500 has been surpassed. Frankly, I think the latter is unlikely since all the contestant except perhaps the 85" Sony X950B, if they have it, will be edge-lit. OLED looks really nice, but I don't think it's quite ready for prime time with some quirks owners are reporting and it's got quite the price premium over a F8500.

Do we now welcome our LCD/LED overlords?
We will welcome our Full Array, Local Dimming overlords if the Vizio Reference series materializes, otherwise probably not for 2014. If for 2015 rest of the industry decides to push further in FALD and up the zone counts to like double where they're at now and gets more reasonable with their pricing (ie: not like Sony with their $8k 65" FALD set with 160 zones) I would be okay with our new FALD LCD overlords.
 

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At the end of the day the videophile is in the minority. The common consumer, who like low poor, low weight, bright images are the majority and that is where the money is. 4k is cheaper and easier to make with lcd. I think lcd will be the only survivable technology in the long distant future.
Isn't it sad that ignorance rules the roost with most things nowadays.


That's a shame yet not at all surprising.

Regarding the LED based sets and the average consumer watching in a bright room and in some way-off dynamic mode...it isn't even just the average consumer that stuff appeals to as my time in the LCD forum here the last 2 months has shown most of the posters there (supposed enthusiasts) pretty much are the same way. I've had a guy debate me when it comes to calibrating TVs to the industry standard and thinks meters and calibration equipment are wrong while his dynamic mode style preference he tweaks by eye is accurate and other owners agreeing with him. Elsewhere I have seen people mock calibrating and mock people for actually wanting their image to represent what the people behind the content intended it to look like. Then you have these people thinking setting their contrast and brightness via a disc like that Disney WoW one means they have a calibrated image and most of those same people loving the soap opera effect. Or the people who think a higher resolution is the single key to image quality and think contrast ratio doesn't matter if the resolution is lower thereby implying a 4k res Seiki will trump a Kuro plasma.

So if so many supposed enthusiasts feel that way and don't give a rip about maximum image quality and accuracy then we who do care and want display performance to improve as time goes on rather than regress are in trouble and we're a dying breed. Hopefully OLED can survive if not simply for ultimate picture quality then to at least give the LED-LCD tech some competition.

If thats anything to go by, my eyes are burning.

 
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