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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nowadays most flat-screen TVs come with glossy screens. With all the negative crituque concerning reflections from them, it seems a bit odd that two of the most prestigious TV-ranges today have probably the glossiest screens: Samsung B-series and Panasonic G/V-series (plasma). I want this thread to be filled with opinions and user feedback concerning these glossy screens.


Take Samsung for instance. I had to choose a good 42-46" TV for my parents, and the reflection issue with glossy screens made the decision very hard. It is easy to just say "pick a matte screen, pick a matte screen", but the reality is that glossy screens are beating them in just about every area. So should we sacrifice PQ in order to get less reflection? In the end, it came down to Samsung 46B750 (which has probably the glossiest screen, well actually the whole B-range does, in the market) and Panasonic 42V10. I chose 46B750 because it had such a following here and amazing reviews: low power consumption, excellent PQ (according to CNET, better than the EdgeLEDs), great design and, according to a few reviews, better suitability for sports than even a Panny G10 (yes, better motion handling than a Panny plasma). I'm confident I made the right choice although I fear my folks might think the screen size is a bit too much (viewing distance 9-10 feet or 3 meters).


Just before I confirmed my order (got an amazing deal), I went to a local electronics store and reviewd the models in the point of view of reflections. First of all though I have to say I enjoyed the PQ of Sammy LCDs more than Panny plasmas. I know that plasmas are at their best in darkness and that in lit areas they tend to look a bit washed up. I also know that plasmas tend to shine only after they have been calibrated and watched at home. However I do have to say, watching Eurosport HD (rowing), I enjoyed the picture of Sammy B-series more than Panny G-series.


Getting back to reflections... I compared the screens of Panny plasmas and Sammy LCDs. It is true that a Sammy B-series model has more a more reflective screen than a Panny plasma. Don't get me wrong, a Panny plasma has a reflective screen as well but watching the telly from dead on, I could see myself in the screen more clearly with a Sammy LCD (with a Panny plasma my reflection was a bit faded, not so clear).


However, here comes the most interesting finging. Even though a Sammy LCD will reflect more, it is more enjoyable to watch. Why? The Ultra Clear Screen keeps its rich colors, brightness and viewability even when in well-lit areas. I also found that if you don't focus on the reflections you see in the screen, they will not bother you. On the other hand, when I saw a Panny G10 that had extreme lighting pointed towards it, the picture was unwatchable (you lost actual screen areas to light).


EDIT: I know about the store policy of maxing out the brightness in the Sammy LCDs to make them look so tempting, but that doesn't change the fact that the Ultra Clear Panel, while it's the worst choice to prevent reflections, it's also the best choice for fighting against them.


I own a matte Sony LCD myself (Sony 40D3000) which doesn't reflect but I've got say I just love what the glossy screen does to the colours and brightness. We probably get the 46B750 tomorrow and the final truth will come out after calibration. I am a bit worried about reflections but based on what I saw in the electronics store, I'm confident I did the right thing not choosing Panny 42V10 (which would've only been a slightly less reflective but which would not have been with that Ultra Clear Panel that powers through reflections).


Two cents, anyone?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnOrion /forum/post/16863453


Nowadays most flat-screen TVs come with glossy screens.

not really, LCD with glossy screen are still pretty rare. other than Samsung A540, A580, A650-A950, B640, B650, B750, B6000-B8000, and Toshiba ZV650u there is none.


on the other hand, plasma is reflective because obviously it has a glass over it, but based on my observation they're not quite as glossy as the LCD with artificially glossy coating on it.


personally I absolutely love the POP that ultra clear panle gives and I detest matte screen no matter how great the PQ is. (XBR8 and LH90 for example) if the new LG LH90 had a glossy screen I'd be all over it.


as for watching TV during day time, I have a huge window by my TV and it doesn't bother me not one bit. I have no idea why so many people negatively mention the reflection on glossy screen LCD in a bright room, I'm wondering if they even had a first hand experience?
 

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I was worried at first that the reflections would be too much. In my living room i have a huge 9' by 6' window. It faces east and catches all of the setting sun. so from about 4pm to 8pm (summer) i have son on my TV.


My Samsung B8000 seems to have enough contrast and brightness to power through these conditions.
 

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I have a 52" B750 and prior to that a 50" Panasonic plasma TH50PX600U (was about 2.5 years old or so).


The reflection glare on both of these is quite bad during the day and minimally bad during the evening (with lights on). My tv is mounted on the wall and faces north. I have about 25 feet or more of windows down the east wall and then the odd window in adjoining rooms down the west wall (very open concept).


During the early part of the day (say from 7am until 1pm), you can really only watch the tv from straight on. If I were to try to quantify the reflections I would say that it is almost like looking into a mirror when seated anywhere other than straight on. I can definitely see reflected colour, all of the shapes, etc. of the items being reflected. At night, I can really only see light reflections behind me. It's not super bad though.


I still got these tv's because I felt that at the time they were the best quality that I could get for my money and Sony's pricing points and semi-matte did not really appeal to me. While I demand matte for my laptop screens, I don't watch much tv during the day anyway so it is not a huge issue.
 

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I work in the film industry and watch a lot of movies in screening rooms and on computer screends (LOL) these days. When I watch at home, it's mostly sports or DVD's (netflix downloads). I have to say I am still very much a "matte screen" viewer. I find reflections off plasma screens and lcd displays like samsung series really distracting, although the payoff for the richer blacks and CR's are obvious vs. matte. For watching daytime sports stuff on an LCD/LED I don't think I could handle a glossy screen in my viewing room - 12 ft wide french doors with no curtains on the right side and another big window right behind the couch. This is a very good thread because it may be the single biggest issue facing my purchase choice - saw the LH90 today and was definitely impressed, always have liked sharp and sony displays, we well, so waiting for their 65" models to come out. Really like Samsung design best of all with thin displays, but they are just so reflective...anyways, I'm rambling, but just wanted to say great thread and I would be curious as to other members' experiences with reflective displays in very bright room. i.e. flooded with daylight
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saidiadude /forum/post/16865630


Another reflection related part of the TV viewing experience: the shiny glossy piano black frames! These tend to reflect even more than the glass screens. Hopefully the industry will switch back to matte frames.


good point! the LG LH90 I saw at Best Buys today has a large reflective frame - probably 3" wide or more - and it was very distracting, despite the nice LED PQ.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnOrion /forum/post/16863453


Nowadays most flat-screen TVs come with glossy screens. With all the negative crituque concerning reflections from them, it seems a bit odd that two of the most prestigious TV-ranges today have probably the glossiest screens: Samsung B-series and Panasonic G/V-series (plasma). I want this thread to be filled with opinions and user feedback concerning these glossy screens.


Take Samsung for instance. I had to choose a good 42-46" TV for my parents, and the reflection issue with glossy screens made the decision very hard. It is easy to just say "pick a matte screen, pick a matte screen", but the reality is that glossy screens are beating them in just about every area. So should we sacrifice PQ in order to get less reflection? In the end, it came down to Samsung 46B750 (which has probably the glossiest screen, well actually the whole B-range does, in the market) and Panasonic 42V10. I chose 46B750 because it had such a following here and amazing reviews: low power consumption, excellent PQ (according to CNET, better than the EdgeLEDs), great design and, according to a few reviews, better suitability for sports than even a Panny G10 (yes, better motion handling than a Panny plasma). I'm confident I made the right choice although I fear my folks might think the screen size is a bit too much (viewing distance 9-10 feet or 3 meters).


Just before I confirmed my order (got an amazing deal), I went to a local electronics store and reviewd the models in the point of view of reflections. First of all though I have to say I enjoyed the PQ of Sammy LCDs more than Panny plasmas. I know that plasmas are at their best in darkness and that in lit areas they tend to look a bit washed up. I also know that plasmas tend to shine only after they have been calibrated and watched at home. However I do have to say, watching Eurosport HD (rowing), I enjoyed the picture of Sammy B-series more than Panny G-series.


Getting back to reflections... I compared the screens of Panny plasmas and Sammy LCDs. It is true that a Sammy B-series model has more a more reflective screen than a Panny plasma. Don't get me wrong, a Panny plasma has a reflective screen as well but watching the telly from dead on, I could see myself in the screen more clearly with a Sammy LCD (with a Panny plasma my reflection was a bit faded, not so clear).


However, here comes the most interesting finging. Even though a Sammy LCD will reflect more, it is more enjoyable to watch. Why? The Ultra Clear Screen keeps its rich colors, brightness and viewability even when in well-lit areas. I also found that if you don't focus on the reflections you see in the screen, they will not bother you. On the other hand, when I saw a Panny G10 that had extreme lighting pointed towards it, the picture was unwatchable (you lost actual screen areas to light).


EDIT: I know about the store policy of maxing out the brightness in the Sammy LCDs to make them look so tempting, but that doesn't change the fact that the Ultra Clear Panel, while it's the worst choice to prevent reflections, it's also the best choice for fighting against them.


I own a matte Sony LCD myself (Sony 40D3000) which doesn't reflect but I've got say I just love what the glossy screen does to the colours and brightness. We probably get the 46B750 tomorrow and the final truth will come out after calibration. I am a bit worried about reflections but based on what I saw in the electronics store, I'm confident I did the right thing not choosing Panny 42V10 (which would've only been a slightly less reflective but which would not have been with that Ultra Clear Panel that powers through reflections).


Two cents, anyone?

Actually, most screens out there are matte.

As far as the UCP, well, i have been boasting about these ever since the Samsung 71 series a few years ago. You won't find a better advocate for the UCP than me...and i have the post history to prove it.

You made an excellent choice in the B750, the realism and immersive feel you get will blow your mind.
 

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I had the B650 and it was facing a blinded window. Of course light can still be seen - and even the minimal light can be seen on the screen. Once I notice it, I can't stop looking at it and it annoys me. Especially when the screen turns dark. I was annoyed that I covered my window with a box so NO light would come in. I sacrificed natural light into the room so I could watch without getting distracted.


But I don't have to worry anymore. I just sold my samsung and got a sony. I can't live with the glossy screens.
 

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I agree that the UCP are awesome and personally feel that CRT TVs that we all grew up with reflected back as much as the UCP or more and I did well by it. When you pay attention to what your watching the little reflections can't be seen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky /forum/post/16865794


I completely disregarded all LCD TV manufacturers producing glossy screens. Mate finish to me will always be distinct advantage.

Even at the expense of PQ? I mean if you look at most review sites, HDTVtest or CNET for example, besides the Kuros, Panasonic plasmas and Samsung UCPs are the top rated TVs right now. I'm not saying TVs such as Sony W5500 (which in my country is about the same price as what was paid for our B750) are poor performers but they aren't rated as high. On the other hand, CNET did say that they hate the glossy screen (altough saying that otherwise Sammy TVs are about the best you can get right now).


My parents, who the B750 is for, watch a lot of TV in daytime. The livingroom has no doors and the TV is faced with a wide window which does have curtains and pull-down blinds but it's dark only in nighttime. Obviously the reflection issue might be there (still haven't received the TV) but I didn't want to hunt the perfect telly keeping "matte screen" as my number one criterium.


On the other hand, there is a conflict there for sure. Only a small percentage of people have a room that is never bright and still Pannys and Sammys are extremely popular. I mean there has to be some sense in Samsung and Panasonic making there reflective screens -- surely they do not think their customers only watch TVs in dark rooms.
 

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Part of pq is the reflection. You would not likely buy a car if the seats were uncomfortable. Likewise, a TV purchase needs to factor in the environment in which the TV will be viewed.


Reflective screens in a well lit room just ask for dissatisfaction.


Most parents won't even adjust the out of the box settings, and won't change their environment to accomodate a TV set.


I hope you didn't buy a sports car to take grandma to church every Sunday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu /forum/post/16867174


Part of pq is the reflection. You would not likely buy a car if the seats were uncomfortable. Likewise, a TV purchase needs to factor in the environment in which the TV will be viewed.


Reflective screens in a well lit room just ask for dissatisfaction.


Most parents won't even adjust the out of the box settings, and won't change their environment to accomodate a TV set.


I hope you didn't buy a sports car to take grandma to church every Sunday.

Yes but you have to admit this TV-hunting is very conflicting in that regard. Right now it's pretty much the popular opinion that the overall best TVs with mortal prices are Panasonic G10/V10 and Samsung B650/B750. Everywhere it is said that these are the ones to get if you want to make a safe choice. Then you read about the reflection issue but wonder if it's really as bad as some people make it out to be.


I mean take the CNET review of B750. They fell in love with the telly but then say they hate the glossy screen but still they place it among the best tellys available. Obviously the consumer is going to think "how can the best overall TV be bad in any environment, how can Samsung make a telly that's not suitable for bright rooms as most of us watch TV in bright rooms".


Obviously there is a good strategy there in choosing a matte or semi-matte screen. On the other hand, you don't buy a car just for the good seats, do you? I mean should we just say "to heck with those reviews that say Panny V10 and Sammy B750 are the best choices right now unless you want to pay Kuro-prices, I just want a TV that has a matte screen".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnOrion /forum/post/16866972


Even at the expense of PQ? I mean if you look at most review sites, HDTVtest or CNET for example, besides the Kuros, Panasonic plasmas and Samsung UCPs are the top rated TVs right now. I'm not saying TVs such as Sony W5500 (which in my country is about the same price as what was paid for our B750) are poor performers but they aren't rated as high. On the other hand, CNET did say that they hate the glossy screen (altough saying that otherwise Sammy TVs are about the best you can get right now).


My parents, who the B750 is for, watch a lot of TV in daytime. The livingroom has no doors and the TV is faced with a wide window which does have curtains and pull-down blinds but it's dark only in nighttime. Obviously the reflection issue might be there (still haven't received the TV) but I didn't want to hunt the perfect telly keeping "matte screen" as my number one criterium.


On the other hand, there is a conflict there for sure. Only a small percentage of people have a room that is never bright and still Pannys and Sammys are extremely popular. I mean there has to be some sense in Samsung and Panasonic making there reflective screens -- surely they do not think their customers only watch TVs in dark rooms.

well the best of the lcds like xbr8 still has a matte/semi matte screen,so its doesn't affect picture quality.the 08 the sony models where the better ones compared to samsung 08 in contrast and black levels,this year in 09 models such as W5500, sony no longer uses the WCG-CCFL ,but rather the normal CCFL which may have led to sony loosing some black level edge.the thing about glossy screens is that, we can't even notice those deep blacks the tvs are capable of and if the video played contains lots of low light scenes due to reflection you won't even notice those details.

but still lcds with glossy screen are better then plasmas,since the sceen in the samsung for example is so black it absorbs most of light,unlike the plasma screens which is glass and grey in color.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnOrion /forum/post/16863453



I am a bit worried about reflections but based on what I saw in the electronics store, I'm confident I did the right thing not choosing Panny 42V10 (which would've only been a slightly less reflective but which would not have been with that Ultra Clear Panel that powers through reflections).

I think the only way to see if UCP bothers you under bright light would be seeing them with your own two eyes in your living room. people have different perception.


for example, I was shopping for a top rated computer case fan the other day. based on over 300+ reviews on this product, some people claimed that this fan was as loud as a small vacuum cleaner. some people claimed that it's very quiet and they can't barely hear any noise. only way to find out about the noise was to try them out myself, and I found out that these fans aren't any louder than cheap, generic case fans that I already have.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185005



based on my readings for the past year, it seems though 90% of people at AVS forum HATE glossy screens on LCD. I guess I'm in the minority that loves the glossy screen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mengu7 /forum/post/16869850


based on my readings for the past year, it seems though 90% of people at AVS forum HATE glossy screens on LCD. I guess I'm in the minority that loves the glossy screen.

On the other hand, Samsung LCD threads (like the B750-thread for example) are among the most popular threads in this forum. One would think that if UCPs were horrible, they wouldn't get that much attention -- much less the reviews that advertise them as the overall best TVs in the market right now.
 

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I have a Samsung 7100 and view it from about 30 degrees off center. I've got French outside doors on the opposite wall. Although you can see a reflection if you look for it, I don't notice it during normal viewing. I love the clear screen, and I actually like the look of the shinny bezel.


Maybe it's not for everybody. When I was shopping I was concerned and was almost not going to buy a clear screen, but I did and I don't regret it at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I just got my 46B750 and I can say that the reflections don't bother me at all. Our livingroom is bright although we have blinds that prevent direct sunlight. The only reflections on the screen are very dim and you don't notice them unless you focus on them.


So, at least to me, fears about reflections with UCP TVs were in vain.
 
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