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Did the calibrator find any disadvantages of edge-lit LED? Like the corners are more lit than in the middle? Or, any non-uniformity of the screen?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r /forum/post/15993161


I have to disagree with the "more shadow detail" on the Sammy, at least according to the pics.

I agree. There is more detail in the Panasonic on the Jokers outfit and on the masks of the bank robbers.


At the very least there is not much difference between the two sets. It is up to you whether you want to pay $1000+ more for the Samsung and have a 3" smaller screen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Come on now man. TH-50PZ800U (Typo in title)...I sold the 58PZ800U, I am not going to have him calibrate that unit. I have a few TH-50PZ800U open boxed units here, now the one is worth more



Again, I have to note these are both great displays. I do not care what you buy, as long as you buy from a forum sponser
 

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The Samsung looks warmer (color temp) than the Panasonic, seems like he used Warm2 over 1. Based on the shadow detail, it also looks like Samsung's sticking with the relatively high gamma in the low end that flirts with crushing. That was definitely on display in the '08s too. FWIW, last years 650+ Series LCD's measured higher real world contrasts than any of '08 Panasonics in every professional review I came across. What backlight setting did you wind up with on the 7100, and are you using (or noticed) any auto dimming features?
 

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Ok seriously i have no idea how you guys came up with this:


-The Samsung had better contrast.

-The Samsung had higher light output

-Subjectively sharper image although the test pattern showed about the same. very slight edge to the Samsung-Punchier picture on the Samsung Both are equal-Better blacks on the Samsung actually it looks crushed on the Samsung and way better detail on the Panasonic


atleast to me and i know some others the Panasonic looks better. now ask yourself if the extra $$$ is worth it for less Screen size and Slim desgin because PQ wise the Samsung matches the 800U at best.


Can't wait to see the NEO PDPs selling more than LCDs.


*check the camaro pic and look at the right left tire. Better detail on the Panasonic.The samsung's crushed black make it look "black"


Not trying to start anything just stating my opinion and even d34dl1n3r agrees.
 

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It was a pleasure meeting Chris from Cleveland Plasma and calibrating the Samsung B7100 for review!

Although Samsung refers to this as an "LED TV", that term is misleading. Actually, it is an LCD TV with an LED edgelit backlight.

I was impressed with the new Sammy's thin profile and high tech design, but of course I was most interested to see it's best performance and compare it to a calibrated Panasonic 800u THX plasma, which I am very familiar with.


First impressions before I did any calibration work:

Brightness uniformity was good on a white field, with just a slight darkening at each of the 4 corners. This was not much different than other LCDs I've calibrated.

Color washed out off axis as on other LCD displays, with red becoming a little orangish and green a little yellowish off to the sides.

Black uniformity was not that great; it had some blotchiness and cloudiness in some areas.

Attachment #1 is the measured performance in standard mode before cal, at default settings.

I started by going into the service menu and calibrating and unlocking the calibration day and night modes, but then I noticed that they had much higher black levels than other modes like Movie mode. Even though this is not a local dimming backlight model, it does dynamically dim the backlight with low APL signals in all modes except the calibration day and night modes. I thought the much improved blacks were too valuable to sacrifice, so I decided to concentrate on calibrating movie mode. Attachment #2 is uncalibrated Movie mode. The blacks went from typical LCD quality to, IMO, 8G Kuro quality. The cloudy spots were much less apparent and no longer a problem in most situations.

Movie mode calibrated well in the user menu. Grayscale tracking was good though not exceptional; on par with other Samsung LCDs. Gamma started high on the low end because it came out of black slow like a CRT, but it averaged about 2.15 the rest of the way. I could have made it over 2.2 the entire way, but then it would have been even higher at the low and and shadow detail would have been very hard to see. The color gamut calibrated nearly perfectly! The only 2 colors with dE higher than .5 were red and blue, and they were both not bad. Color luminance was exceptional with careful calibration of the CMS. The dynamic backlight action after calibration in Movie mode was fast and unobtrusive. I got 58 ft-l of light output, which is good for a moderately bright room. Resolution was excellent at 1080i and 1080P. I did not test lower resolutions.

The subjective look was stunning! This set has tons of "pop", and it has beautiful color. It looks very crisp and detailed. Since it came out of black slowly, dark objects are just a bit too dark, but that's very forgiveable considering how great it looks overall.

I then calibrated the Panny 800u's THX mode, which made a huge improvement over the uncalibrated THX mode. After cal the 800u put out 40 ft-l on a 100% white window. We looked at the same scenes on both sets. I know we compared 58 ft-l to 40, but I didn't want to handicap the Sammy by reducing it's light output. After all, that's one of it's most important advantages; it wouldn't be fair to take that advantage away.

The Samsung had more apparent contrast ratio. It was easy to see the difference; it just won that contest hands down.

The Samsung appeared a bit sharper and had more vibrant colors. Flesh tones were neither too sunburnt nor too pale; they looked perfectly natural. However, it's high low end gamma meant that shadow detail was harder to see than on the Panny, which errs in the opposite direction (the 800u comes out of black too fast). The Panasonic has a natural, forgiving look that is easy on the eyes but not as involving. Overall I preferred the Samsung because of it's higher contrast ratio, higher light output which makes it more versatile and well suited for bright living rooms, and superb color. But I still like the 800u; it's natural, easy going look and lower price are important.

Attachment #3 is the measurements of the Samsung's calibrated movie mode.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal /forum/post/15993573


Ok seriously i have no idea how you guys came up with this:


-The Samsung had better contrast.

-The Samsung had higher light output

-Subjectively sharper image although the test pattern showed about the same. very slight edge to the Samsung-Punchier picture on the Samsung Both are equal-Better blacks on the Samsung actually it looks crushed on the Samsung and way better detail on the Panasonic


atleast to me and i know some others the Panasonic looks better. now ask yourself if the extra $$$ is worth it for less Screen size and Slim desgin because PQ wise the Samsung matches the 800U at best.


Can't wait to see the NEO PDPs selling more than LCDs.


*check the camaro pic and look at the right left tire. Better detail on the Panasonic.The samsung's crushed black make it look "black"


Not trying to start anything just stating my opinion and even d34dl1n3r agrees.

Neither set has perfect gamma at the low end, but they err in opposite directions. The Sammy's low end gamma is too high, which means shadow detail is darker and harder to see. But it is not crushed; the detail is there, just a little low in level. The Panny's THX mode gamma is too low at the low end, which means near black images are boosted and shadow detail is a bit washed out. But neither set is bad enough to say it is poor with shadow detail; it's just that with them being opposites they exaggerate the differences. I still consider the 800u's THX mode gamma to be "good" overall, and the same for the Samsung.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B /forum/post/15993596


The Panasonic has a natural, forgiving look that is easy on the eyes but not as involving.

But I still like the 800u; it's natural, easy going look and lower price are important.

Enough Said
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal /forum/post/15993716


The Panasonic has a natural, forgiving look that is easy on the eyes but not as involving.

But I still like the 800u; it's natural, easy going look and lower price are important.

Enough Said

Is that what they call "selectively quoting"...?


You forgot to quote the other parts of Chad B's professional review- namely how he prefer the Luxia over the 800u, how Luxia's contrast ratio beats the 800u hands down, the 8G kuro quality blacks...etc

Quote:
Can't wait to see the NEO PDPs selling more than LCDs

I don't get it... Why does it seem you have a hate for LCD TVs? I mean I prefer the LCDs, BUT I don't hate plasma/Panasonic. I certainly wouldn't anxiously wait for sales figures of NEO PDP and LCDs to see who sold more units in 2009.
 

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Wow, very cool comparo.


Really like the Sammy... obviously sharper and superior in contrast to the Panny.


But is it $800 better (street price) than the 58" version of the Panny and worth losing the 3" over? Hmm, very individual choice, actually. I'd lean towards quality myself, but the money is an issue, moreso than the small diff in screen size.


What is scary, if you're a plasma patriot, is it seems that even if the Panny is still the better value, LCD is now coming awfully close overall. And the 800U was hardly a pushover... second highest-rated set on CNET, behind only the Elite. And now Pioneer's gone.



Will Panny's upcoming Neo PDPs, with their alleged contrast and brightness improvements, ride to the rescue? Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel.



(Chris, that was a not-so-veiled request for a Neo vs Luxia shoot-out in the near future
)
.
 

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Also, Chad, Chris... what do you think of the Luxia vs the A950? Significant step forward or baby-step forward?

.
 

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For some reason I am thinking that I like the "real-life" screenshots on the Panasonic better than the Samsung. i.e. joker looking in the mirror.


The Samsung seems to do better on anything computer generated.


The only exception being the Pixar screen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B /forum/post/15993596


It was a pleasure meeting Chris and calibrating the new Sammy for review!

I was impressed with the new Sammy's thin profile and high tech design, but of course I was most interested to see it's best performance and compare it to a calibrated Panasonic 800u THX plasma, which I am very familiar with.


First impressions before I did anything to it:

Brightness uniformity was good on a white field, with just a slight darkening at each of the 4 corners. This is not much different than other LCDs I've calibrated.

Color washed out off axis as on other LCD displays, with red becoming a little orangish and green a little yellowish off to the sides.

Black uniformity was not that great; it had some blotchiness and cloudiness in some areas.

Attachment #1 is the measured performance in std mode before cal, at default settings.

I started by going into the service menu and calibrating and unlocking the calibration day and night modes, but then I noticed that they had much higher black levels than other modes like Movie mode. Even though this is not a local dimming backlight model, it does dynamically dim the backlight with low APL signals in all modes except the calibration day and night modes. I thought the much improved blacks were too valuable to sacrifice, so I decided to concentrate on calibrating movie mode. Attachment #2 is uncalibrated Movie mode. The blacks went from typical LCD quality to, IMO, 8G Kuro quality. The cloudy spots were much less apparent and no longer a problem in most situations.

Movie mode calibrated well in the user menu. Grayscale tracking was good though not exceptional; on par with other Samsung LCDs. Gamma started high on the low end because it came out of black slow like a CRT, but it averaged about 2.15 the rest of the way. I could have made it over 2.2 the entire way, but then it would have been even higher at the low and and shadow detail would have been very hard to see. The color gamut calibrated nearly perfectly! The only 2 colors with dE higher than .5 were red and blue, and they were both not bad. Color luminance was exceptional with careful calibration of the CMS. The dynamic backlight action after calibration in Movie mode was fast and unobtrusive. I got 58 ft-l of light output, which is good for a moderately bright room. Resolution was excellent at 1080i and 1080P. I did not test lower resolutions.

The subjective look was stunning! This set has tons of "pop", and it has beautiful color. It looks very crisp and detailed. Since it came out of black slowly, dark objects are just a bit too dark, but that's very forgiveable considering how great it looks overall.

I then calibrated the Panny 800u's THX mode, which made a huge improvement over the uncalibrated THX mode. After cal the 800u put out 40 ft-l on a 100% white window. We looked at the same scenes on both sets. I know we compared 58 ft-l to 40, but I didn't want to handicap the Sammy by reducing it's light output. After all, that's one of it's most important advantages; it wouldn't be fair to take that advantage away.

The Samsung had more apparent contrast ratio. It was easy to see the difference; it just won that contest hands down.

The Samsung appeared a bit sharper and had more vibrant colors. Flesh tones were neither too sunburnt nor too pale; they looked perfectly natural. However, it's high low end gamma meant that shadow detail was harder to see than on the Panny, which errs in the opposite direction (the 800u comes out of black too fast). The Panasonic has a natural, forgiving look that is easy on the eyes but not as involving. Overall I preferred the Samsung because of it's higher contrast ratio, higher light output which makes it more versatile and well suited for bright living rooms, and superb color. But I still like the 800u; it's natural, easy going look and lower price are important.

Attachment #3 is the measurements of the Samsung's calibrated movie mode.

Thank you very much for the detailed review. This is great because unlike most reviews which generally compare a set to a number of others in general, you actually had the two sets go head to head directly.


I guess that the only thing to really consider would be the fact that the Panasonic is last year's model, right (besides being a different technology)?


I think that the Luxia's have sparked my interest once again, although the pricing is what probably does me in.
 
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