[Stephen_Krause]

Hi all,


I currently have a Toshiba 57HX81 HDTV and I recently put an order for a 61" Samsung DLP. I'm using Dish Network 6000 receiver (HDTV box) and a Panasonic RP91 DVD player. Now for my questions:


1. I was in Best Buy today and say the 50" Samsung DLP and it was on composite video showing a feed. The 'clay faces' issue was really bad and I starting getting scared that I'm going to see this on the 61". If I do and my wife sees this I'm a dead man! What is causing this? If I am going to see this all the time, I may have to go Plasma.


2. Does the fan output a lot of heat? The reason I ask is (and this has no correlation to the Samsung TV), but I built a PC with an Athalon chip and have a fan on it, and my room actually gets warm from the heat coming off of the Athalon.


3. The Dish Network STB and the Panasonic 91 dvd player are going component into my tv now. My problem is that I have a closet which is about 25 feet across the room. With the advent of DVI, how do I get a DVI cable that long enough to run to the tv?


Sorry for all the questions!

 

[wegafan]

Get a ceiling fan. Two Tvs(36" & 13", PC, and Gamesystems can get the room mighty stuffy. So I installed a ceiling fan! Problem solved.





Prior to the fan, I had to crank up the airconditioning, thus the rest of the house was frosty, and my Entertainment room was still toasty!


Not really AV relevant, but I like to help where I can

 

[DannyBaker]

The fan doesn't output the kind of heat that would require any kind of additional climate control in the room.


You can never base a purchasing decision on what you see at a mass market chain store. The sets aren't adjusted correctly, and the fact that BB was demo'ing a TV using a composite input is laughable (though not uncommon). Sometimes you can take the remote in the store and do some minor tweaks to see what the effects are. (Basically, backing off a lot on contrast and taking sharpness all the way down.) You might need to do this when the salesman isn't looking!


In any case, clay faces are really only an issue on broadcast TV, and then they can be minimized and sometimes eliminated with proper adjustment. You can get part of the way there using a test disc at home and tweaking user controls, but of course an ISF calibration would get you the absolute best picture.


On higher quality viewing material, clay faces are not an issue at all. (Again, assuming proper adjustment.)

 

[Mit07]

I have seen plenty of clay faces when watching DVDs connected via component cables to the Sammy DLP. I'm told that DVI would make a difference but unfortunately I have not been able to test this.

 

[backset]

When I first turned on my 56" Sammy I was really disappointed in the clay face issue and general image quality. But after 5 minutes of basic adjustments, not even including the SM, it was much better.


I still haven't made any SM adjustments, and I'm not sure that I ever will. I still see some clay face and/or quality issues on DVD and broadcast tv via component. But I'm now using DVI and RGB for my inputs and there are no issues whatsoever. The picture is stunning. You need to stay away from the component inputs as much as possible to really enjoy this TV.


Now if we could only get an affordable DVI switch we'd be money.

 

[neilometer]

I agree with Mr. Baker. I am in no way an expert like him, but after some minor tweaking, I've virtually eliminated clay faces. Every time I go to a store like BB, CC or even Tweeter, I am appalled at how bad their DLPs look compared to mine. I think this is the main reason that people are buying the new Sony GWIII's. OFTB, they look much better than the Sammy's. However, after tweaking both sets, you're only left with the inherent weaknesses of each technology (black levels, rainbow, etc.,...)


Again, to summarize. Clay faces are EASILY tweaked out of existence, so don't worry about it. Instead, worry about the following (evil grin)


1. rainbow effect (because of color wheel)

2. fan noise (All of the Sammy DLP's that I've heard, have a louder fan sound than the LCDs)

3. dithering (IMO, a minor issue with a properly adjusted set)


Neil

 

[JAKEJ]

I am new DLP HLN437 owner and I have yet to see a clay face either on DVD or Satellite. I am using a RP82 DVD Player and a SAT520 via DVI set to upconvert everthing to 720p. The PQ on all channels is excellent including Standard Definition.


I have made only minor adjustments to the user settings and one SM change (gamma from 4 to 0.) Again, I have not seen one clay face, so one or more of the following must be true:


1. I am immune to seeing clay faces.

2. The minor adjustments made have eliminated them.

3. You are prone to seeing them more than others.

or

4. The sources I have connected to the monitor are not producing them.


As far as heat goes, the fan does kick out quite a bit of heat through the rear vent. I would say it will give off at least as much as your PC, if not more.

 

[DooDoo]

Clay faces will drive you crazy. COver your eyes!!!!

 

[mosher1234]

I've had my HLN507W for about a month now and have DVD through DVI, HDTV through component and analog cable through composite. I did VERY minor tweaking in the user menu (no SM) and the picture is stunning. My DVD's look amazing, analog cable on many channels look EXCELLENT and HDTV is breathtaking. I have not seen clay faces, ditering or rainbows (I even tried on that one!). Based on everything I have read, many of the problems are related to source, altough some people might feel differently and I can respect that. With regards to fan noise, it's pretty quiet and even on mute it's hardly noticable and produces no more heat than a PC and since my TV is on a stand and out in the open, it's not noticeable. If it was in an entertainment unit, it might be hotter.


Hope this helps...

 

[Bishamon]

I have never had so-called 'clay faces' on my HLM437W, even OOTB.

 

[BTDT]

The "clay face" issue was heavily reported early on on the Sammys but I definitely believe that it is mitigated both by:


1) Newer firmware; and

2) Ability to tweak settings.


There is a 56" DLP at the Tweeters on the Dallas Parkway here that has the best Sammy DLP picture I've seen. This set has been fully ISF'd, so those of you in the Dallas area can see just how good these sets can look when reasonably adjusted. Note that I haven't seen as much of a problem even on non-adjusted newer sets, which leads me to believe that the OOTB settings from Samsung are a lot closer to what they should be.


I would not worry too much, but would expect their to be some PQ issues (at least minor) with your set OOTB. To avoid wife lashback I would personally do a quick calibration myself (via the UM) using one of the popular test disks. After about a month (or 100 hours of use) I would also get the set ISF'd by an experienced individual. There are SM tweaks that can be made based on recommendations on this forum, but to dial in the best picture on your particular set you need someone with test equipment who knows how to use it on the Sammy DLPs. The latest firmware allows you to get to a near-perfect picture in many respects, from what I've been told and have seen.

 

[neilometer]

mosher,


you say that you can barely hear your fan? Man, I wonder if something is wrong with mine then?


When my TV powers up, I can hear two separate sounds. The color wheel spins up and emits a high-pitched whine like a hard drive. To me, this feels like a pressure in my head. When I turn the TV off, it is a relief. The second sound is a lower pitched fan drone that, when playing movies, I can clearly hear over people talking as long as there is no music playing or anything.


To be honest, this is my biggest complaint with the TV. I know that I'm one of those people who suffers from "cognitive dissonance" and tend to focus on any negative things until it starts to drive me crazy. A friend of mine recently came over to see the TV and, after watching it for a while, I started pointing out all the things that annoyed me. He just looked at me and said, "Neil, your TV looks VERY GOOD. I think you have to look REALLY hard to even notice any of the things you described to me. Chill, man."


So, I guess that's something I need to work on...


Neil

 

[ride525]

Quote:

When I first turned on my 56" Sammy I was really disappointed in the clay face issue and general image quality. But after 5 minutes of basic adjustments, not even including the SM, it was much better

Backseat, (or others) what things did you do to adjust?


Thanks


Jeff

 

[neilometer]

That's been heavily talked about in other threads, but here's what I have and did:


HLN5065W w/302 firmware


Changed gamma from 4 to 0

Changed colorwheel delay from 212 to 222


Used a Home Theater calibration CD to set the color, brightness, contrast, etc.


My picture is truly stunning, and the colors are very "realistic". No green push at all.


Neil

 

[JAKEJ]

Quote:

Originally posted by neilometer Changed colorwheel delay from 212 to 222

Neil,


You sure it wasn't 222 to 212? My set is defaulted at 223. I haven't changed it yet and to be honest don't know what it does. Your 212 default sounds low, that is why I am asking.


Jake

 

[neilometer]

Jake,


I'm pretty sure it was 212 cause I remember using "the spreadsheet" to get the 222 value. Was your default gamma set to 4?

 

[mosher1234]

Quote:

Originally posted by neilometer mosher, you say that you can barely hear your fan? Man, I wonder if something is wrong with mine then? When my TV powers up, I can hear two separate sounds. The color wheel spins up and emits a high-pitched whine like a hard drive. To me, this feels like a pressure in my head. When I turn the TV off, it is a relief. The second sound is a lower pitched fan drone that, when playing movies, I can clearly hear over people talking as long as there is no music playing or anything. Neil

I went home to check mine again to make sure I just didn't have dirt in my ears. Yes, my color wheel makes a whine when it starts but it is not very loud. The fan is pretty quiet though. I can barely hear it when I am close to the TV. It's MUCH quieter than say, a desktop computer. I would compare it to the sound my laptop makes when it's internal fan kicks on (maybe slightly louder) If you want, I can try to meassure it in decibals with my meter if anyone is really interested. Maybe the newer models (mine is July 2003) have a different fan in them.

 

[BTDT]

I think the color wheel whine is a known flaw in some sets, and should be considered a reason for repair or replacement. The fan or wheel shouldn't make a sound such that it overshadows the typical sound of a movie (but you should be able to hear it as a "soft purr" during quiet sequences).


Do others consider this to be a general problem with the Samsung's or an anomaly? I would think I would have picked out a "high whine" even in a showroom environment.

 

[neilometer]

Actually, I found the sound to be very hard to pick out even in a showroom. I went into my local Tweeter's showroom in the back where they had both the Sony WEIII and Sammy DLP set up. I closed the doors, and waited until the air conditioning shut off, then muted all the sound. I could clearly hear the fan from the DLP while sitting in a chair 8-10' feet away. The Sony LCD -- nada. The fan noise was much quieter.


It's like the fans in the Sammy's need to run at a higher RPM than the LCDs.


Neil

 

[NikePenguin]

I have an odd occurance of clayface on a 617. I was testing the PIP and had a baseball game on both screens of the side-by-side PIP. One screen looked just fine but the other screen had clayface. This was just using the antennae input for the two built in tuners. Any idea why one would have clayface but not he other?