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Quote:
Originally Posted by toast0  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24490620

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10260#post_24474583


Hi,

The "TSID" being unique is not on a transmitter basis as KGO RF 7 and RF 35 both contain the same TSID.

I think the RF 35 system is just repeating the analog signal, I don't think it's a digital system that could replace the TSID (or do other nice things, like processing the error correction and re-encoding to send out a cleaner signal)
Hi,

 

I beg to differ.

 

Looking at your data in the past I could see loss of RF 7 data and the rest of the numbers show that the RF 35 is being received just fine by your antenna.

 

If there is a drop in the "Utilization" then the RF 7 antenna at RF 35's site has lost the signal from across the bay.

 

IMHO there is no way that an analog repeater would work with a ATSC digital signal.

 

SHF
 

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A few interesting applications showed up at the FCC today.


K02QX (another One Ministries station) RF 2 in Morgan Hill filed a License to Cover and should be on the air. It's only 300 watts.


KYMB RF 27 Monterey has applied to move their transmitter to Mt. Toro from a much lower location overlooking Monterey. This would greatly expand their coverage.


KIXE Redding has asked for an extension of their STA to operate the channel 18 translator.


Chuck
 

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(Newbie Alert, be kind ;-).

 

Hello,

 

I've been reading through these forums and researching on places like TVFool, FCC's website, Crutchfield, etc.  I apologize if this has been covered already.  I did a few searches and didn't see anything that answered my questions.

 

PROBLEM TO SOLVE:

* Moving into a new 2 story townhome in north Los Altos (near intersection of San Antonio Road and El Camino).

* Don't want to give comcast any of my money (their customer service is the worst in the universe... or any parallel universes for that matter).

* It is in the center of the development with one row of same height (25 ft at attic) homes to the northwest, 2 rows of same height to south east.  There is a taller 4 story apartment complex north east at 100 yards.  Basically 4 rows of homes, all same height, 200 yard square.

* Home has an attic, opening is probably 2x2, maybe a bit bigger.

* Location  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Marcelli+Cir/@37.3986732,-122.1124274,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x808fb09a26ba4dbf:0xc950916407bad976

 

 

Questions:

* How much 'worse' is an attic based antenna.  And are their models that can easily be broken down to fit through the smaller attic opening before being set up?  It seems to be a standard plywood/asphalt tile setup with insulation around the living area (not the attic).  I have heard 50% degredation as standard for that, and most recommend an amplifier for attic installs because of that.  * I am a bit worried about the apartment complex, which is line of sight to mount allison.  It is a wood frame structure, and about 100 yards away, will this kill those signals?  SF/Sutro seems a better shot.

* Anyone on here live nearby and have some 411 to share?  You are welcome at the housewarming/game ;-).

* Looking at my channel list, am likely to go with a UHF antenna + Amp, non directional.  Other than the apartment building feel pretty good based on the online signal strength info.  However, would love feedback, and any recommendations on a solid setup.

* The house is new, so has the standard 'control box' where everything (Cable, tele, ethernet) comes together.  I have read that splitters and longer lines cause problems, but this is a relatively small place (1500 SQFT townhome), and I would prefer to run the antenna connect to the central box and split from there.  Does it really make that much of a difference (and can I mitigate, with, for example 75 ohm cable/etc).

* Finally, it is a connected home and most of my watching is amazon/netflix/etc.  Was looking at Roku + OTA, but in my research saw that Channel Master has a new DVR+ that seems pretty interesting.  Wondering if anyone has experience with that product.

 

Thank you, I know I am asking a lot of questions as a newbie, but reading your posts it is amazing how much information all of you have (SNR graphs on frequencies, etc.. crazy ;-).  I promise that I will repay and helpful tips with info on my setup/experience once I move in.

 

Thank you.

 

AvoidComcast
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497160


* Looking at my channel list, am likely to go with a UHF antenna + Amp, non directional.  Other than the apartment building feel pretty good based on the online signal strength info.  However, would love feedback, and any recommendations on a solid setup.

We'd like to be able to give that to you but it's hard to predict with an attic setup. I did check the signals in your area and they're very good. I would not use a non-directional antenna. It sounds like a good idea when you have stations in different directions but it invites multipath issues.


Antennas come folded up or in pieces for shipping so you should be able to get them into your attic.


You really need an antenna with VHF unless you're willing to give up NBC and maybe ABC. I'd suggest the HD7694P or the Antennacraft equivalent. A preamp may not be a good idea.


I don't know how your control box is configured and if it can be used with an antenna. How do you get coax from the attic to the control box?


I've heard mixed reviews on the DVR+. I have a TiVo Roamio and it works great but you have to pay for the guide.


Chuck
 

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I am getting good signals with an outdoor antenna a bit south from you in Santa Clara. I point the antenna roughly NW and pick up the Mt. Allison signals off to the side just fine. I've run across a few attic antenna posts in various threads here, might try searching for some of those and check with the posters as to their results.


For the central control box, see if you can find out how it is set up and how accessible it is. Ideally you would like to put a distribution amp (if there is not one already) in there to take the one antenna cable and push out separate signals to each cable leaving the box instead of having a bunch of splitters.


I've been using Windows Media Center with a couple of tuner sources for OTA and it has been working well. The PC I use out in the living room is very old but is acceptable as an HTPC. I also have a small all-in-one PC in my bedroom as a "TV" and can watch live TV there as well as access my media library on a NAS all with the remote control from WMC. There are other PC-based media center options out there as well.


So far I don't use any streaming boxes like Roku, but can get much of that type of content inside WMC, for example Amazon Instant Video, HuluPlus, Netflix.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497870


I've heard mixed reviews on the DVR+. I have a TiVo Roamio and it works great but you have to pay for the guide.


Chuck
 

It is a mid-level DVR, with a few flaws, BUT, for someone coming from both Dish Network and DirectTV DVR's, I wouldn't give it up. The Rovi guide is a very nice feature, 2 weeks of data via the Internet at no charge.

 

Oh the most important part, the DVR+ keeps the wife satisfied and happy. I love my electronic toys, and am very picky, so I nitpick. My wife, she has never had any issues or complaints about the DVR+. I would definitely recommend it, and would by another for my office if it was in my budget.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497160

 

(Newbie Alert, be kind ;-).

 

Hello,

 

I've been reading through these forums and researching on places like TVFool, FCC's website, Crutchfield, etc.  I apologize if this has been covered already.  I did a few searches and didn't see anything that answered my questions.

 

PROBLEM TO SOLVE:

* Moving into a new 2 story townhome in north Los Altos (near intersection of San Antonio Road and El Camino).

Questions:.
.

* Finally, it is a connected home and most of my watching is amazon/netflix/etc.  Was looking at Roku + OTA, but in my research saw that Channel Master has a new DVR+ that seems pretty interesting.  Wondering if anyone has experience with that product.
.
My wife has a condo at 85 and DeAnza that she lived in until we got married a year ago.  I installed http://dennysantennaservice.com/ez_hd_tv_Antenna.html with a ChannelMaster rotor in the attic (two stories up).  It works just fine for the stations behind Fremont and for Sutro Tower, and she didn't even use the rotor, just pointed it at Fremont and it worked it worked for Sutro Tower (the antenna isn't all that directional)  It's shooting down the whole length of the building, through two or maybe three interior firewalls and an exterior stucco wall.  There's a single TV drop, no amplification.  The hardest part was figuring out how to hang it so that the rotor was at the center of rotation (the mast mount on the antenna is off center and it's a real tight fit up there).

 

Use RG-6 coax. 

 

You have to swap two wires on the rotor cabling if you hang it upside down (thank you ChannelMaster support).

 

If somebody can point me at how to post pictures here, I've got pictures of the similar (and improved, second generation) installation at our weekend place outside Monterey.

 

I have a DVR+ here in Morgan Hill and am quite happy with it.  It doesn't do Netflix and Amazon yet, but ChannelMaster has said that this is a priority.  There are a bunch of folks on the DVR+ thread here that want it to do everything at half the price, but it does for me what it's speced to do.

 

 

Chuck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24498774


If somebody can point me at how to post pictures here, I've got pictures of the similar (and improved, second generation) installation at our weekend place outside Monterey.

Click on the 6th icon from the right above the text box in the "Reply."


Chuck
 

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Yep, it looks like a postcard....
 

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Hi,

 

"Inserting Images and Using the AVS Editors"

 

http://www.avsforum.com/a/inserting-images-and-using-the-avs-editors



From "Forum Operations Center" (Bottom of the Forums list)

http://www.avsforum.com/f/43/forum-operations-center

 



If you are using the Rich Text Editor:

 



 

Note, I am using IE 11 and find that the RTE is unusable.

 

I have found some instructions as to how to roll back to IE 10 on W7, has anyone actually done this and does the RTE start working again?

 

TIA

 

SHF
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497870



We'd like to be able to give that to you but it's hard to predict with an attic setup. I did check the signals in your area and they're very good. I would not use a non-directional antenna. It sounds like a good idea when you have stations in different directions but it invites multipath issues.


Antennas come folded up or in pieces for shipping so you should be able to get them into your attic.


You really need an antenna with VHF unless you're willing to give up NBC and maybe ABC. I'd suggest the HD7694P or the Antennacraft equivalent. A preamp may not be a good idea.


I don't know how your control box is configured and if it can be used with an antenna. How do you get coax from the attic to the control box?


I've heard mixed reviews on the DVR+. I have a TiVo Roamio and it works great but you have to pay for the guide.


Chuck
 

@Calaveras.  Thanks, sounds like the attic opening won't be an issue.  Will double check to make sure no foil on the roof, but am pretty sure all the insulation is around the main living area.  I will need to run the cable through a side wall and then have access to the control box in the basement.  Annoying thing is they don't wire for antenna's in these new homes.

 

On VHF, I have heard they are larger.  Does it make a big difference for channel 12 (NBC).  For ABC, it looks like KGO also broadcasts on digital 35.

 

Thanks for tips on directional versus not directional.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Crawler  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24498675


I am getting good signals with an outdoor antenna a bit south from you in Santa Clara. I point the antenna roughly NW and pick up the Mt. Allison signals off to the side just fine. I've run across a few attic antenna posts in various threads here, might try searching for some of those and check with the posters as to their results.


For the central control box, see if you can find out how it is set up and how accessible it is. Ideally you would like to put a distribution amp (if there is not one already) in there to take the one antenna cable and push out separate signals to each cable leaving the box instead of having a bunch of splitters.


I've been using Windows Media Center with a couple of tuner sources for OTA and it has been working well. The PC I use out in the living room is very old but is acceptable as an HTPC. I also have a small all-in-one PC in my bedroom as a "TV" and can watch live TV there as well as access my media library on a NAS all with the remote control from WMC. There are other PC-based media center options out there as well.


So far I don't use any streaming boxes like Roku, but can get much of that type of content inside WMC, for example Amazon Instant Video, HuluPlus, Netflix.
 

@4Crawler.  Thanks for this info.  I will check into the distribution setup and also do a few searches on attics.  I also use Windows Media Center.  Good as long as you don't try to manage large photo collections with it ;-).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24498774

 

If somebody can point me at how to post pictures here, I've got pictures of the similar (and improved, second generation) installation at our weekend place outside Monterey.

 

 

Chuck
Here are a couple of pictures from our weekend place.  That's soldered copper pipe.  The pipe below the antenna is way longer than it needs to be.  The bit of  pipe that attaches to the rotor is a T, with a bit of pipe going up.

 

This is definitely a Denny's antenna.  I'm wondering if I installed something else at Linda's condo because I remember that the mast mount was not at the end of the boom (but not in the center of rotation either).  I did have to fabricate something.  I remember because I used 1" or maybe a bit bigger EMT (thin-wall conduit), and it was a bugger to bend and to get the right offset, and it took much more vertical distance to get the offset than those nice 90 degree elbows and Ts. 

 

AH, found the order confirmation e-mail.  It was a Winegard HD7694P antenna that I installed at Linda's, not the Denny's condo special.

 



 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24498774

 

My wife has a condo at 85 and DeAnza that she lived in until we got married a year ago.  I installed http://dennysantennaservice.com/ez_hd_tv_Antenna.html with a ChannelMaster rotor in the attic (two stories up).  It works just fine for the stations behind Fremont and for Sutro Tower, and she didn't even use the rotor, just pointed it at Fremont and it worked it worked for Sutro Tower (the antenna isn't all that directional)  It's shooting down the whole length of the building, through two or maybe three interior firewalls and an exterior stucco wall.  There's a single TV drop, no amplification.  The hardest part was figuring out how to hang it so that the rotor was at the center of rotation (the mast mount on the antenna is off center and it's a real tight fit up there).

 

Use RG-6 coax. 

 

You have to swap two wires on the rotor cabling if you hang it upside down (thank you ChannelMaster support).

 

If somebody can point me at how to post pictures here, I've got pictures of the similar (and improved, second generation) installation at our weekend place outside Monterey.

 

I have a DVR+ here in Morgan Hill and am quite happy with it.  It doesn't do Netflix and Amazon yet, but ChannelMaster has said that this is a priority.  There are a bunch of folks on the DVR+ thread here that want it to do everything at half the price, but it does for me what it's speced to do.

 

 

Chuck
@chuck...  

Thanks for this information.  Need to climb up in th attic and see how I would hang it.  Good to hear you've got experience in this general location (and I know, my mileage may vary ;-).  Sounds like you went for a dual band directional like what Calaveras suggested.  Congratulations on your wedding.

 

Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24499927

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497870



We'd like to be able to give that to you but it's hard to predict with an attic setup. I did check the signals in your area and they're very good. I would not use a non-directional antenna. It sounds like a good idea when you have stations in different directions but it invites multipath issues.


Antennas come folded up or in pieces for shipping so you should be able to get them into your attic.


You really need an antenna with VHF unless you're willing to give up NBC and maybe ABC. I'd suggest the HD7694P or the Antennacraft equivalent. A preamp may not be a good idea.


I don't know how your control box is configured and if it can be used with an antenna. How do you get coax from the attic to the control box?


I've heard mixed reviews on the DVR+. I have a TiVo Roamio and it works great but you have to pay for the guide.


Chuck
 

@Calaveras.  Thanks, sounds like the attic opening won't be an issue.  Will double check to make sure no foil on the roof, but am pretty sure all the insulation is around the main living area.  I will need to run the cable through a side wall and then have access to the control box in the basement.  Annoying thing is they don't wire for antenna's in these new homes.

 

On VHF, I have heard they are larger.  Does it make a big difference for channel 12 (NBC).  For ABC, it looks like KGO also broadcasts on digital 35.

 

Thanks for tips on directional versus not directional.
Hi,

 

Look for attic roofing material like this, very bad news:

 



 

KGO RF 35 is from Mt. Allison and is not as powerful as some stations. It has it's problems from time to time as it must receive KGO RF7 from across the bay on Sutro and weather sometimes causes problems.

 

An Low VHF antenna for RF 7 is about 6 feet wide. In an attic it is hard to tell what will work so YMMV.

 

I selected an UHF antenna (Channel Master CM4228HD) which gets RF 7 and RF 12 just fine. See my profile. (Outside)

 

 My Hi-Lo VHF antenna in my attic is DEAF due to the roofing material. My 4-Bay UHF antenna on a rotor in my attic is usable for only one station. Check your roofing material carefully.

 

SHF
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24499927


On VHF, I have heard they are larger.  Does it make a big difference for channel 12 (NBC).  For ABC, it looks like KGO also broadcasts on digital 35.

The largest elements on high VHF are about 36" but that's after then antenna is unfolded. I'm aware that some people have had success with certain types of UHF antennas on high VHF under certain conditions.


I've chosen not to go the route of recommending the wrong antenna for the job here on the forums. Recent experience has reinforced that.


One person converting to OTA reported receiving no stations on indoor antenna and up to 74 channels on a good outdoor antenna. That's how dramatic the difference can be between a compromise antenna and the proper antenna.


Chuck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24499959

 

@chuck...  

Sounds like you went for a dual band directional like what Calaveras suggested.

 

Thanks
 

It's VHF-Hi + UHF.  And sorta directional.  Not nearly as directional as some of the larger antennas.


When you stick your head in the attic, eyeball how much room you have.  The place in Marina was a real tight fit.  I ended putting down a bunch of 1x10 or 1x12 on the ceiling joists to support me while I was working, and there was only about 3-4' of clearance top to bottom.  I did the same thing at Linda's in West San Jose, but it wasn't nearly as necessary.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidcomcast  /t/369015/san-francisco-ca-ota/10290#post_24497160

 

...

 

* Moving into a new 2 story townhome in north Los Altos (near intersection of San Antonio Road and El Camino).

 

...

 

AvoidComcast
Hi,

 

OK 3 feet instead of six.


 

Please enter your address into this TVFool Google Map

 

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

 

Click on "Show lines pointing to each transmitter"

 

You will see that KGO RF 7 and KGO RF 35 are in different directions. It is difficult to receive UHF stations from two different directions with out a rotor. Perhaps all the interesting VHF stations are in one direction (RF 7 and RF 12) so no rotor needed.

 

Looking at your location, I see major possible problems with an attic antenna.

 

First, I suggest that you edit your first post and remove the link to Google Maps, it is best not to include so specific information.

 

There are many high buildings nearby and under construction in the path to Mt. Allison.

 

Why my fixed antenna and other reports suggest that both Sutro and Mt. Allison stations can be received by one fixed antenna, your angle is wrong. I just lucked out with my location and I have an outdoor antenna.

 

We keep saying that attic antenna reception is difficult to predict, you just need to try and see if you can get the stations you want and be prepared to try something else. (Don't bet the bank on acceptable success!)

 

SHF
 

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Thank you to @SFischer1, @Chuck, @Calaveras , for your posts.  Kinda too hard to quote and reply to each separately ;-).

 

@ SFischer1.  On the attic, I will be visiting the place with a home inspecter next Friday, so will ask him to inspect specifically for roof insulation (and the scary silver stuff, thanks for the pic SFischer1).  Also, on the low VHF, based on my initial look at the attic a low VHF directional combo will probably be too big to mount, so may order and test something a bit smaller to start.    Sounds like looking into something like CM4228HD is a good bet.

 

@Chuck.  The pictures are really really helpful, lets me visualize what I am getting myself into.  I am fine with the mounting/soldering/etc. part but it is interesting (for me) to see some pics of an actual antenna mounted in an attic (I grew up in the country, and we just put it on a big pole and made sure it was lightning grounded ;-).  Seems like you don't use remote positioning, but just pointed and tested, right?

 

@Calaveras.  Really appreciate your frankness.  Next Friday I will bring a measuring stick to see how viable something like 36 inches will be (houses our here in silicon valley are on the small side ;-).  My general plan is to order (with return) my best bet, and test it out before mounting anything.  I just wish the HOA's out here allowed roof antennas.  Unfortunately it is a townhome which is condo ownership and the roof is NOT common area, so looks like the best bet (on roof) won't work, and no dedicated common yard.  You would think the FCC would have anticipated this if the reason for the law was to enable OTA transmission, but for most townhome/Condo communities you don't own the roof so you have limited options.

 

At this point, strategy is:

* Confirm roof material during home inspection on 28th

* Based on that, order a mild directional High VHF+UHF Antenna, largest that will fit attic

* Install and test before running permanent cables.

 

One thing not a lot of comments on: I have an apartment complex being built to 45 feet about 100 yards east/north east.  Direct line to mount allison.  It is a wood frame structure.  Does this make my plans a non starter?

 

Thanks

 

AvoidComcast (at all costs).
 

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I've got a Vizio TV with a loose coax input connector in the back. Can anyone here recommend someone on the SF peninsula that I can hire to repair this?  It is a common problem and based on youtube vids it looks like a pretty easy repair but its beyond my soldering skills.  I can pull the board and bring it to anyone willing to do the work. Thanks.
 
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