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Will Larry ever get a lock on RF 13 ?
I sure hope so! Signals got up to 14.2 dB on RF 13 during one of the good periods a couple weeks ago, but it never got strong enough to produce any PSIP information. It seems like the RF 13 signal is up when the Sacramento/Stockton stations are up, so I suspect that I'm seeing KTVN 2 from Reno.

I have pretty much the same situation for KSPX 29 (RF48) from Walnut Grove. I still haven't received a picture on that ION station either.

Larry
 

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I have pretty much the same situation for KSPX 29 (RF48) from Walnut Grove. I still haven't received a picture on that ION station either.

Larry
Don't you have the same problem with KSPX as you do with KCRA? Co-channel interference? The KTVU translator is on RF 48 in Fremont. The second problem is that the KSPX antenna is side mounted on the east side of the tower. I wonder how much that blocks the signal in your direction? The third problem is that they have a directional antenna with a big null to SF. Looks to be about 72 KW in your direction and 1000KW in my direction. This must all conspire to make it rather difficult for you to ever see it.

Chuck
 

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Don't you have the same problem with KSPX as you do with KCRA? Co-channel interference? The KTVU translator is on RF 48 in Fremont. The second problem is that the KSPX antenna is side mounted on the east side of the tower. I wonder how much that blocks the signal in your direction? The third problem is that they have a directional antenna with a big null to SF. Looks to be about 72 KW in your direction and 1000KW in my direction. This must all conspire to make it rather difficult for you to ever see it.
Chuck
KTVU could be keeping me from seeing KSPX, but I don't know. I never got the station before the KTVU translator came on the air. KCRA was always solid at 20 dB or higher all the time before KGO's translator came on the air, so with that one I know what's happening. KCRA still makes it over the background noise and is viewable occasionally, it's just not strong like it used to be.

Despite the big null toward SF and just 72 KW, I have seen the KSPX signal get up to 14 dB. Close, but no cigar, just like the station I'm seeing on channel 13. Do you think I'm right thinking it's KTVN from Reno I'm seeing on 13?
 

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Despite the big null toward SF and just 72 KW, I have seen the KSPX signal get up to 14 dB. Close, but no cigar, just like the station I'm seeing on channel 13. Do you think I'm right thinking it's KTVN from Reno I'm seeing on 13?
I think you're seeing KCBA and the reason you never see KSBW is that adjacent KGO is too strong. From the signals I captured at you place I see that KNTV is quite a bit weaker so maybe KCBA is possible.

I just returned from my friend's place in Walnut Creek where I brought my antennas and spectrum analyzer. He has a great shot in the Reno direction and there was not a trace of anything on RF13. Seems unlikely you'd being seeing any signal from it over another range of hills.

I going to post about that trip.

Chuck
 

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Well, one of these days I'll hopefully know what station I am receiving on RF 13. One disadvantage of digital is that you can't see what the weak stations are. With analog you could make out the ID through the snow. :)

I don't get KSBW because we have KDTS 52 from Mt. Diablo on channel 8 here.

Larry
 

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I have pretty much the same situation for KSPX 29 (RF48) from Walnut Grove. I still haven't received a picture on that ION station either.

I still haven't decided exactly what and where I'm going to post about my Walnut Creek data but you might be interested in this. Walnut Creek is exactly on a line that splits the difference in headings between Sutro and San Bruno from Walnut Grove so I would expect you'd be seeing the same relative signal strengths at your location.

Here's a list of the Walnut Grove stations from my friend's place in Walnut Creek with the spectrum analyzer reading and ERP from the FCC database. The VHF signal strengths have been adjusted to take into account differences in coax loss and preamp gain. The difference between the stations is what matters, not the exact number. All except KSPX were SNR 31 to 34 dB.

Station/SS dBm/ERP KW

KCRA/-46/1000
KVIE/-43/33
KXTV/-44/28.6
KOVR/-41/1000
KSPX/-61/151
KMAX/-43/1000
KTXL/-58/90
KQCA/-51/600
KTFK/-52/29

KOVR is again the strongest station with VHF close behind. KSPX is the weakest.

I think what you receive pretty much corresponds to the strengths I recorded. The antenna setup I used on his roof is attached.

Chuck
 

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Stations rearranged by strength:

Station/SS dBm/ERP KW
KOVR/-41/1000 - I get about 50% of the time
KMAX/-43/1000 - I get all the time (my strongest of the group)
KVIE/-43/33 - I get about 67% of the time
KXTV/-44/28.6 - I get about 67% of the time
KCRA/-46/1000 - I get only occasionally due to KGO translator
KQCA/-51/600 - I get all the time
KTFK/-52/29 - Don't get
KTXL/-58/90 - Don't get - local station on 40
KSPX/-61/151 - Don't get

What I find interesting is that KQCA, my second strongest station, is only one dB stronger there than KTFK that I don't get at all.

Larry
 

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I suspect that I'm seeing KTVN 2 from Reno.
Larry
I say possibly yes, because working at SF Presidio I was picking up a FM radio station from Pollock Pines quite well everyday. The range was the entire Presidio, parts of Lombard St.
and by the time I drove to Van Ness, It was entirely gone.
But then again, you don't live in that part of the city.
I think you're seeing KCBA
Chuck
It could be that. but, nobody on this forum has mentioned reception of that station in that area, including the north bay, where KSBW has been reported working.
I get a constant "always there" low signal here, that is KCBA, The long distance to Reno might bring surge only reception conditions. And not a local constant low signal ?
Well, one of these days I'll hopefully know what station I am receiving on RF 13. One disadvantage of digital is that you can't see what the weak stations are. With analog you could make out the ID through the snow. :)
Larry
Why don't you try to obtain transmitter maintenance & shutdown schedules for both those stations ? Compare that to what you see, and possibly know that way. ?
I should check what is on 13 in Rosevile, and see If I can get a lock on KTVN there. Bring my testing gear, ... and do it on a rainy day, ... for normal reception conditions.
No cheating if I check on a rainy day right ? ;)
From memory, basically every channel in Roseville has something. 2 through 51
I think I saw nothing digital on 5 & 6 Now I'm curious, road trip coming soon. LOL
 

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I ran terrain profiles for KTVN and KCBA at the same vertical scale to Larry's location. Neither are an easy path and neither show up on his TV Fool report so both stations would be extremely weak. It would definitely take some special ducting to receive either. I know KTVN has been received in Newman in the San Joaquin Valley. It could be we'll never know as "almost received" may occur under the very best conditions.

Chuck
 

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Well, one of these days I'll hopefully know what station I am receiving on RF 13. One disadvantage of digital is that you can't see what the weak stations are. With analog you could make out the ID through the snow. :)
Larry, one advantage of DTV is that you don't have to see the picture to find out what is the station. ;) If you can get enough of the transport stream to allow your HDHomerun tuner's configuration software to decode the PSIP, you'll know what that rf13 guy is. Alternatively, you could set up the HDHR to capture the TS from rf13 and then feed that to TSReader and see what it makes of it.
 

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I ran terrain profiles for KTVN and KCBA at the same vertical scale to Larry's location.
Chuck
Thanks, Chuck... interesting displays! Both show pretty much impossible paths, so whatever I'm getting has to be tropo. Hopefully, one of these days the channel 13 signal will get strong enough to find out what I'm seeing.

Larry
 

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Larry, one advantage of DTV is that you don't have to see the picture to find out what is the station. ;) If you can get enough of the transport stream to allow your HDHomerun tuner's configuration software to decode the PSIP, you'll know what that rf13 guy is. Alternatively, you could set up the HDHR to capture the TS from rf13 and then feed that to TSReader and see what it makes of it.
The HDHomeRun receiver reached "ss=48 snq=44 seq=0" the last time channel 13 came in well... not enough for the PSIP to be decoded. Normally I get an ss=35, at most, on 13. I wish my HDHR had a better receiver. Signals picked up on some of my other receivers don't make it on the HDHR. Are the receivers in the newer models any better?

I hadn't thought about trying to capture the signal to read with the TSReader. I'll have to give that a try the next time I see a somewhat decent signal on 13. Thanks for that suggestion!

Larry
 

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30.4 and 30.5?

I managed to lose KTVU last night on the TV in my office and couldn't get it back even while waving the antenna around, so I just did a rescan. Picked up some channels (including KTVU), lost some others. Does anyone know why my TV might have caught signals on 30.4 and 30.5? (Those are the PSIP numbers; when I go to the signal strength screen, it also gives "30" as the RF number, but that would be KQED, so that can't be right.)

The screens are black except for an error message from the TV: "No broadcast now." So it's apparently getting an RF signal but nothing else.

Any idea what's going on there?
 

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30.4 and 30.5?

I managed to lose KTVU last night on the TV in my office and couldn't get it back even while waving the antenna around, so I just did a rescan. Picked up some channels (including KTVU), lost some others. Does anyone know why my TV might have caught signals on 30.4 and 30.5? (Those are the PSIP numbers; when I go to the signal strength screen, it also gives "30" as the RF number, but that would be KQED, so that can't be right.)

The screens are black except for an error message from the TV: "No broadcast now." So it's apparently getting an RF signal but nothing else.

Any idea what's going on there?
I will try and do a TSReader scan later, but KQED does have two data streams, 8 and 9. They might have their PSIP messed up.


SHF
 

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KQED TSReader Scan

Other than KQED not indicating what language is on each audio stream, it looks OK, but then I am not an expert.

The TSReader output is attached.

SHF
 

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Looks fine to me. Could be that the TV is just putting the two data channels, which it sees immediately after the three regular video channels, as 4 and 5 instead of 8 and 9. I've seen TVs do that.

- Trip
 
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