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Seems multiple people ARE seeing it, but only
intermittently, and maybe not that many people
watch KNTV anyway.

Look, probably the only five people who watch
broadcast TV over an antenna post here, the majority
of people have cable in this area in particular, and I've
never ceased to be amazed at how bad things have
to be before somebody actually complains.

Part of the problem here is that the first thing the
regular posters here will do is recommend a new
antenna...

I DO always assume some kind of local interference;
for example, the gardners were running leaf blowers
and hedge-trimmers today when I was home for lunch,
and sure enough, I had "macroblocking" coming out
the wazoo. My basic rule is that if I can hear something,
like a plane or a two-stroke gas engine, I expect to have
problems, and if I don't hear it, I still expect to have
problems...

The value here IS that people can report the same problems
from many different areas, thus making it much less likely
that the problem is anything local or anything that is related
to an airport or something like that that's been there forever
but never caused any problems before (besides which,
the flight paths for SFO are BELOW the transmitting
antenna).

Again, I blame Doug Lung...

--
maxreactance
yet, we practically trouble shot the issue right here, Doug was notified and the issue seems to be gone. Maybe you didn't notice my post talking about DishNetwork's feed being OTA and that adds many, many viewers to the antenna folk... That, in itself, brings credence to the fact that there was an OTA issue right here....
 

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Another reason is that analog TV was two separate transmitters, one for the video and an FM transmitter for the audio. If the radio had an FM receiver then all there was to receive TV audio was add in the frequency converters to tune the TV channels. In DTV everything that a station transmits is in one data stream. There's no simple way to just get the audio so there's not much point in building an audio only receiver. Unlike analog TV where you might have poor picture but good audio, the audio in DTV has the same reception issues as the picture.

Chuck


Very well-written and understandable. Thank you so much.

KNTV perfect so far today, all day. Does anyone know what was wrong and how it was fixed ? Or was nothing fixed and today is a Lucky Day (420) ?
 

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Code:
[B]G:\HDTV>REM FullStream3.bat Working 4/18/2015[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>REM[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>REM 1) Use HDHomeRun Config (GUI) to choose the physical channel.[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>REM Ctrl-C to stop after 30 seconds.[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>REM[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 set /[/B]
[B]tuner0/filter "0x0000-0x1FFF"[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 save[/B]
[B]/tuner0 sample3.ts[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B]................................................................................[/B]
[B].............[/B]
[B]-- Video statistics --[/B]
[B]1204394 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport error[/B]
[B]s, 0 sequence errors[/B]
[B]Terminate batch job (Y/N)? n[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>REM[/B]
[B]G:\HDTV>Pause[/B]
[B]Press any key to continue . . .[/B]
Continuity errors: 0
TEI errors: 0

SHF


How was it fixed ? What was wrong ?
 

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OH NO!!!!

I hope channel 7 hasn't had a re-occurence of the audio
problems they had for me about a year ago, "Dancing
With The Stars" is on tonight, and for most of the season
last year I couldn't hear it!

Near as I can tell, these types of problems may be a
result of subtle mis-matches between the audio encoding
from the station/network and decoding in your receiver.

How bad is it? I couldn't hear dialog on channel 7 if
there was any background noise, but it's been fine for
quite a while after I complained about it...

--
maxreactance



Not "bad", but a substantial difference in audio quality from 11.1. They both have a lack of lower mid-range, lack of depth, lack of richness. . . . like someone put a thick blanket over the speaker output.
 

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It's been a crazy reception day here. All stations in all directions have had huge swings in signal strength.
Chuck
Edit: More strong ducting. Image attached of KAXT with diagnostic screen - SNR 31.3 dB.
I was out all day and missed all the fun. :(

15 kW at 120 miles or so... that's a rootin'-tootin' good signal you got!

I saw an interesting situation last evening. KTVJ has been coming in steady at about 19 dB SNR here or a signal strength of 80 on the HD HomeRun receiver. Last night I noticed that the signal was dropping a little, bouncing between 70 and 76 with occasional dips to 65. Then all of a sudden the signal took a nose dive and went from 72 to 39 and back up to 76 in just a 15 second time period. Now that's a major swing in signal strength for a station that's just 14 miles away! After that it was fairly steady in the 70 to 75 range. Could the heavy fog coming through the Golden Gate cause a sudden change like that? Tonight KTVJ is back up to 80.

Larry
 

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It's the chicken pluckers NOT!

1. Why do you think Doug was responsible, directly or in directly, for fixing it ?

2. Will someone find out what was malfunctioning and let us know ?


1) Doug likely has the phone number or the e-mail address of someone responsible for the station engineering directly or can get messages to them.

A couple of years ago a station had the virtual channel field blank or zero and was in effect turning another stations transmitter off. I finally started asking questions where Chuck and the other real experts hang out. One of them looked up in the FCC records the person responsible for the station and called him. The problem was fixed very quickly.

Then there is this post, did you not see it?

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/369015-san-francisco-ca-ota-410.html#post33587529

2) It is very unlikely that they will tell anyone outside of NBC what was wrong, they will not tell us for sure.

It is like how I got two streams booted off a station a while back. When I asked the program listings be included for those two streams that request was seen by one of the bean counters who told management that they had two streams on their transmitter that they were getting NO MONEY FOR. One part of a station may not have much contact with other parts,

While others think otherwise, I still consider the LA to SF link from KNBC (where KNBC, KNTV and KNSD) are controlled to be a possible source.

Do you really want to know how sausages is made. Or see a video of how chickens are made into nuggets? No there are not thousands of people pulling their feathers off by hand and cutting them up.

SHF


 

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1) Doug likely has the phone number or the e-mail address of someone responsible for the station engineering directly or can get messages to them.

A couple of years ago a station had the virtual channel field blank or zero and was in effect turning another stations transmitter off. I finally started asking questions where Chuck and the other real experts hang out. One of them looked up in the FCC records the person responsible for the station and called him. The problem was fixed very quickly.

Then there is this post, did you not see it?

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/369015-san-francisco-ca-ota-410.html#post33587529

Never saw that post until now. Too busy eating chicken nuggets with feathers.
 

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Hi guys.

I'm thinking of cutting the cable soon. Can anyone comment on network reception in general from the Santa Rosa area? I understand, in my limited knowledge of the subject, that this would greatly depend on the antenna I use. I plan to give a cheapo set top Amazon special a try first, and will gradually, if I'm dissatisfied, work up to one which will allow me to communicate with Martians.
 

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Hi guys.

I'm thinking of cutting the cable soon. Can anyone comment on network reception in general from the Santa Rosa area? I understand, in my limited knowledge of the subject, that this would greatly depend on the antenna I use. I plan to give a cheapo set top Amazon special a try first, and will gradually, if I'm dissatisfied, work up to one which will allow me to communicate with Martians.
Go to: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

and paste the link in a post here.

Parts of the North Bay are impossible, one person tried for five (5) years and finally gave up. With the first location he gave I knew the answer.

SHF
 

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I am racking my brain to remember previous tools I used and Terry may have used to collect his data.

Terry's post http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/369015-san-francisco-ca-ota-409.html#post33573473
Sorry, I missed a day's posts recently and only saw this tonight. Nani, you have the same tool that I used: CW_EPG http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/659993-cliff-watson-epg-add-myhd-fusionhdtv-hd-homerun.html. It keeps a log of recording statistics for all of your HDHR captures. You can quickly see the most recent 50 of them by entering "localhost:8181/recent" in your HTPC's browser. You can review the older captures by looking at the table named CW_EPG_CAPTURES in cw_record.mdb on your HTPC.
 

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I was out all day and missed all the fun. :(

15 kW at 120 miles or so... that's a rootin'-tootin' good signal you got!

I saw an interesting situation last evening. KTVJ has been coming in steady at about 19 dB SNR here or a signal strength of 80 on the HD HomeRun receiver. Last night I noticed that the signal was dropping a little, bouncing between 70 and 76 with occasional dips to 65. Then all of a sudden the signal took a nose dive and went from 72 to 39 and back up to 76 in just a 15 second time period. Now that's a major swing in signal strength for a station that's just 14 miles away! After that it was fairly steady in the 70 to 75 range. Could the heavy fog coming through the Golden Gate cause a sudden change like that? Tonight KTVJ is back up to 80.

Larry

KAXT is 90 miles from here but it doesn't even show up on my TV Fool report. It doesn't always come in but I see it often with an SNR in the teens. 31 dB is just off the charts. At the same time the 4 full power stations from Fremont were stronger than Walnut Grove.

There's something going on with your low VHF signal strength we don't understand. An LOS signal at such a short distance should not change. If you saw that spectrum analyzer image of RF 2 - 4 I posted for Keith you saw KCSO nearly identical 2 days apart. It is LOS and 14 miles from here. I use KMMW at the same site as a reference signal because it never changes by more than +/- 1 dB over years. When conditions are poor and I start having doubts about my antennas I check KMMW to be sure they're working. :)

I'm still seeing some enhanced signals this morning so it might be another interesting day.

Chuck
 

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Hi guys.

I'm thinking of cutting the cable soon. Can anyone comment on network reception in general from the Santa Rosa area? I understand, in my limited knowledge of the subject, that this would greatly depend on the antenna I use. I plan to give a cheapo set top Amazon special a try first, and will gradually, if I'm dissatisfied, work up to one which will allow me to communicate with Martians.
It all depends on where in Santa Rosa you are. Some areas are shaded by Sonoma Mt. I can tell you, for sure, that an indoor antenna will get you nothing except, KEMO, channel 50, KRCB, Channel 22, and perhaps, a religious station. If you can give us a nearby cross street a better answer may be forthcoming.
 

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Hi guys.

I'm thinking of cutting the cable soon. Can anyone comment on network reception in general from the Santa Rosa area? I understand, in my limited knowledge of the subject, that this would greatly depend on the antenna I use. I plan to give a cheapo set top Amazon special a try first, and will gradually, if I'm dissatisfied, work up to one which will allow me to communicate with Martians.
I live in the north SR area, by Larkfield and cannot rely on OTA reception. I'm able to get UHF channels with a full blown attic antenna but the high VHF are impossible.
The UHF from Sutro are not reliable enough to depend on them so I can't even consider cutting the cord and going OTA.

OH, and our little subdivision is still pristine, no antennas other than Dish or Direct and I'm not about to be the first to mess up the charm.
We all used to have perfect green lawns too, but that is changing rapidly thanks to the weather gods...........
 

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Thanks for the replies, guys.


I'm just south of Santa Rosa, in Rohnert Park. Cross streets are Snyder and Golf Course.


So, I don't think Sonoma mountain would be a problem, but it is a bit discouraging to learn that the area in general is difficult to receive OTA programming.


Yeah, my lawn is less than pristine these days too. We're pretty seriously considering ripping it out in favor of native plants, and I've wanted to do a rain water (what's that?) collection system for a while too.
 

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Thanks for the replies, guys.


I'm just south of Santa Rosa, in Rohnert Park. Cross streets are Snyder and Golf Course.


So, I don't think Sonoma mountain would be a problem, but it is a bit discouraging to learn that the area in general is difficult to receive OTA programming.


Yeah, my lawn is less than pristine these days too. We're pretty seriously considering ripping it out in favor of native plants, and I've wanted to do a rain water (what's that?) collection system for a while too.
I'm also in Rohnert Park, D Section. You are in a good spot for an outdoor antenna. I have a Channel Master 4228 and I am able to get all of the UHF channels off of Sutro very well. Channel 7 is spotty and channel 11 is a bust for me. However, my 4228 is a UHF antenna only. There are some antennas out there that do both VHF and UHF and that is your best bet. Something you will want to look out for is heavy trees to the south. They can play havoc with digital TV. The redwoods on the Expressway are far enough away from me to not be an issue but one of my neighbors had a couple that caused me woes but he trimmed them way back and now I get great reception.
 

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I'm also in Rohnert Park, D Section. You are in a good spot for an outdoor antenna. I have a Channel Master 4228 and I am able to get all of the UHF channels off of Sutro very well. Channel 7 is spotty and channel 11 is a bust for me. However, my 4228 is a UHF antenna only. There are some antennas out there that do both VHF and UHF and that is your best bet. Something you will want to look out for is heavy trees to the south. They can play havoc with digital TV. The redwoods on the Expressway are far enough away from me to not be an issue but one of my neighbors had a couple that caused me woes but he trimmed them way back and now I get great reception.
Interesting comment about your neighbor's trees. So did the conversation go something like, "Good morning Earl. Hey listen, those two trees of yours are really cocking up my TV reception. Can I pay to have them trimmed for you?" If so, at what point do buying fancy antennas, mounts, trimming neighbors trees etc outweigh the cost of just staying with cable and having tons more programming to watch? Hmmm

I'm deep enough into G section that there aren't many heavy trees directly to my south, just a lot of (mostly) single story homes. I'll definitely look into antennas which are both UHF and VHF capable. I usually watch channel 7 news, so it's a bummer to hear that it's spotty. Thanks for the advice!
 
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