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Receiving almost all the channels that I care about now and more than I want for almost a couple of weeks . Had to direct my antenna almost 45 deg off of the direction to Sutro (I use an indoor "flat antenna" in San Jose and the window I have the antenna is pointed almost perfectly at Sutro).

Had to jury rig a different mounting for it:

For the time you've spent fiddling with the indoor antenna, you probably could have mounted one outdoors by now. You seem to care enough to work on it. Sometimes the most efficient thing to do is go straight to the best solution.
 

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For the time you've spent fiddling with the indoor antenna, you probably could have mounted one outdoors by now. You seem to care enough to work on it. Sometimes the most efficient thing to do is go straight to the best solution.

Thanks for the outdoor recommendation again.



Seriously considering an outdoor solution, but I really have not spent much time on this endeavor so far. I also have enjoyed the challenge and learning experience of this project, otherwise I would have stuck with satellite and streaming for care-free entertainment....


As other folks have mentioned previously an indoor is perhaps the only solutions (i.e. apartment dwellers) or like me , they want to use whatever they already have on-hand (all projects have some constraints and restrictions and need to be accomplished within some resource limits).


Was thinking of this for an outdoor antenna since it meets my price / aesthetics constraints, and I could do a DIY eave-end fascia on corner of a 2nd story roof or a wall mount in the front of the house:



https://antopusa.com/product/flat-panel-outdoor-hdtv-antenna-pl-402/



Thoughts and other recommendations welcome.
 

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Very interesting, thanks!

FYI, I verified with KQED that the information on their Transmitter Status page is current despite their being no posting date on it:

https://www.kqed.org/about/transmitter-status/

So that explains why the nominally higher-power KQED isn't coming in as strongly as KPJK.
I've noticed that KQED and KQEH have been showing up with a slightly weaker signal than the other stations from Sutro. Now we know why. Thanks for passing on the info.

EDIT: Chuck says we shouldn't see the 3 db difference, but compared to the other Sutro stations, RF 30 has a weaker signal here.
 

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Thanks for the outdoor recommendation again.
https://antopusa.com/product/flat-panel-outdoor-hdtv-antenna-pl-402/

Thoughts and other recommendations welcome.
I've been hearing a lot of positive things about the Antop "Big Boy" over the past few months. It's the first antenna in a few years that's caught me eye as a potential replacement for the 20 year old Zenith SilverSensor I bring with me on whenever I head out into the field (I once hauled a CM4228HD on a trip. Just a little bulky...). The Big Boy to have good sensitivity based on user reports.

If you do decide to get one please report on how well/poorly it does.
 

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It would be nice if the Y-axis was labeled. Do you know what the scales are for the various statistics? When I went to the page and turned everything off on KQED except for Signal Strength, I saw Signal Strength as a straight line at the top. I'm guessing that once Signal Strength reaches a predetermined level that it is assigned 100% and everything stronger is still 100%. Not very helpful when you have a strong station. If this is what's happening, then it's no surprise that a 3 dB difference in KQED signal strength is still 100%.

Chuck
The tuner and demodulator values for signal strength, signal quality, and other signal properties are the raw numbers coming out of the HDHR4/HDHR5. The signal strength does saturate at a certain point - that's a function of what the tuner in the HDHR4/5 can measure - remember these are commercial ICs used in the HDHRs and not test equipment-grade parts.

The reception at the monitor tends to be sufficiently good that when Sutro was switching to aux antennas earlier in the year it usually was not visible in the graphs. The only indication that a station had switched to/from the aux antenna was a huge spike in transport stream-level errors at the instant of the switch.

(FYI to highlight a particular statistic you can hover your mouse over its title in the legend. Generally easier than trying to toggle the various items on/off.)
 

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The tuner and demodulator values for signal strength, signal quality, and other signal properties are the raw numbers coming out of the HDHR4/HDHR5. The signal strength does saturate at a certain point - that's a function of what the tuner in the HDHR4/5 can measure - remember these are commercial ICs used in the HDHRs and not test equipment-grade parts.

I didn't know we were talking about HDHR here. I think this is a software limitation and not a hardware limitation. In an old post:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/369015-san-francisco-ca-ota-303.html#post22804244

Toast0 said 100% is 0 dBmV or -48.75 dBm. That means anything above 0 dBmV will read 100%. All the tuner chips have to handle at least -8 dBm. This means HDHR is calling the upper half of the dynamic range 100%. I suppose this made sense to somebody but not to me. 0 dBmV is just an averagely strong signal. If they couldn't handle stronger signals the tuners would overload in many environments.

Chuck
 

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If I point my 8200U antenna west directly at Sutro Tower through about a 20 degree swath, ~75 to 95 degrees, I get a non-8vsb signal of 100% on many of the channels with the HDHR receivers. I suspect that's due to receiver overload. I have no idea how strong the signals really are. My Sony TV often shows signals of 33-34 DB SNR for the Sutro channels.
 

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I didn't know we were talking about HDHR here. I think this is a software limitation and not a hardware limitation. In an old post:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/369015-san-francisco-ca-ota-303.html#post22804244

Toast0 said 100% is 0 dBmV or -48.75 dBm. That means anything above 0 dBmV will read 100%. All the tuner chips have to handle at least -8 dBm. This means HDHR is calling the upper half of the dynamic range 100%. I suppose this made sense to somebody but not to me. 0 dBmV is just an averagely strong signal. If they couldn't handle stronger signals the tuners would overload in many environments.

Chuck
Keep in mind that what chips handle and what they report are two different things. I know that the Micronas DRX in the HDHR2 is capable of reporting a greater range, so in the case of the HDHR2 the firmware is choosing to report a more limited range for reasons only SiliconDust knows. Perhaps it had to do with how the NIMs in HDHR1 worked. I looked into the HDHR raw values vs dBm a couple years ago. The advisory then was that the signal strength should not be interpreted as dBm. I believe there was a similar statement regarding signal quality and SNR. I suspect that at one time there was a relationship, but as newer hardware revs were introduced perhaps the relationship was lost. Even within a certain model there can be some variability, for example if the LNA is changed and the firmware does not account the change in gain. (Another tuner stick I had reported signal strength in dBm, but post LNA, which wasn't quite as informative as the strength at the connector).
 

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I've been hearing a lot of positive things about the Antop "Big Boy" over the past few months. It's the first antenna in a few years that's caught me eye as a potential replacement for the 20 year old Zenith SilverSensor I bring with me on whenever I head out into the field (I once hauled a CM4228HD on a trip. Just a little bulky...). The Big Boy to have good sensitivity based on user reports.

If you do decide to get one please report on how well/poorly it does.
The big boy is about 2 feet tall. It's over 9 pounds. Sounds like, if it's bigger it's better. That often is not the case. My advice won't change. The classic bowtie is a step up from the Silver Sensor. If you haven't tried one, do.
 

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Is that on the KCNZ transmitter that very few people seem to receive?
I get KCNZ VC 28 RF 21 all the way down in south San Jose at 73%/66% strength/quality (-14dBmv/20dB SNR) without a preamp. That's with the the 91XG long rifle, although I'm behind a hill. Indoor and small outdoor bowtie antennae may not cut it unless you're closer.

Edit: Yes, KCNZ is sharing with KOFY.
 

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We lit up KAXT/KTLN tonight on RF channel 22. 42 will shut down on 7/3. How does the new 22 compare to the current 42 from your location?
On RF 42 VC 1.2 KAXT in south San Jose with a DB4e pointed at Fremont it is 88%/86% strength/quality (-7.2dBmv/25.8dB SNR) on a Silicondust HDHR4-2US

On RF 22 VC 1.2 KAXT in south San Jose with a DB4e pointed at Fremont it is 94%/86% strength/quality (-3.6dBmv/25.5dB SNR) on a Silicondust HDHR4-2US

And on the wrong antenna:
On RF 22 VC 1.2 KAXT in south San Jose with a 91XG pointed at San Francisco it is 91%/90% strength/quality (-5.4dBmv/27dB SNR) on a Silicondust HDHR4-2US

You can also check Minakami's antenna monitor web page, he has quite the fancy setup.
 

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We lit up KAXT/KTLN tonight on RF channel 22. 42 will shut down on 7/3. How does the new 22 compare to the current 42 from your location?
No / low signal. (No service) at my home on Quinn lane in Hayward.

No service in the Kelly hill / Fairview district of Hayward.
Most likely no service in the town of Castro Valley
 
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