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if you’re interested, this link will send you to my Live Bandscan using a Televes Ellipse Mix. I am 30 miles east of Sacramento, CA. I easily receive all Sacramento locals plus most of the Bay Area. I get some DX surprises now and then too. I’ve tried several other outdoor antennas but the Televes is hands down the better performer so far.

Glad to read this, and happy your getting good results. Surprised by other blank statements.
 

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Calaveras, do you have personal experience with Televes products?
Hi Javier,

You had to go way back to dig up that post but it shows how long I've been fighting the VHF antenna battle. :D As I remember the OP wanted to receive SF stations from Tracy. You can see from the Rabbitears report that it's a tough go from Tracy being tucked in behind the Altamont Pass. All SF stations are rated either Poor or Bad. My recommendation is based on the need to receive high VHF stations. At the time there were two stations, now there are three stations. None of the UHF antennas with add-on high VHF elements are likely to be good enough in that situation. I wouldn't change my recommendation for an antenna with VHF capabilities comparable to UHF. If I were to change my recommendation at all I'd say try the Televes for UHF and add a dedicated high VHF antenna.

The WB6LZV situation is quite a bit different. He's in a superior location for TV reception. In a post over on the Sacramento thread ( 9 d ago ) he said his antenna prior to the Televes Ellipse Mix was an RCA ANT705E. That's a very small antenna intended mainly for locations near the transmitters. I'd expect the Televes to be "hands down" better than the RCA. A fairer test would be an XG91 and a Stellar Labs 30-2476 for VHF against the Televes Ellipse Mix. I don't know if he ever tried that. I doubt it based on his HOA comment. Those two antenna wouldn't be stealth. :) He didn't make any comment about VHF reception.

Over the last decade or so I've tried a lot of different antennas. What I've found is that once you have properly functioning antennas up in the air, it is very hard to make much of any improvement. Even 1 or 2 dB is hard fought for.

Best,

Chuck
 

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Hi Chuck, I have not tried an XG91 and/or a separate VHF antenna like the 30-2476. You are correct, it wouldn't be very stealth. My VHF reception is still quite good. 95%+ signal strength and quality from the Walnut Grove stations (KXTV and KVIE) as you would expect. Bay Area VHF (KRON, KGO and KNTV) is solid copy for the most part excepting occasional atmospheric conditions during the day. If you look at my Live Bandscan graphs, you can see when I turned off the amp.


Since yesterday, 8/20 at 9am I have been running the Ellipse Mix passively with the amplifier off. There hasn't been anything that I couldn't receive without the amp. Since my signals are strong to begin with, the signal margin with the amp off doesn't seem to be an issue. Line loss should be minimal having only 40' of RG6 quad shield between the antenna and HDHomeRun. It will likely be a different story when I connect to my full distribution system.

Sigs are looking quite good as I type this. BTW, that reception of RF27 Virtual 4 of KBTV-TV in Port Arthur, TX is an error. There is a low power station in Sacramento, KBTV-CD also on RF27, but they aren't transmitting their assigned TSID. So Live Bandscan does its best to figure it out.

73, Craig
 

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You get amazing reception with your Televes antenna! You get batter strength and quality from Sutro Tower than I do!

Larry
 

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Hey.. KRCB 22-1
How many days, weeks, months, is your EPG on screen clock going to be wrong ?
Sloppy operation with pledge drives ?
Same problem with 60-1
 

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Hi Larry,

Are you seeing KDTS-LD today? We're doing testing on RF UHF 14 from Sutro Tower at 15 kW ERP. Every odd minute from 10:01 AM until 1PM the transmitter is on. Every even minute the transmitter is off. You should see virtual channels 15, 40, 52, and 26.11
So far no land mobile people have complained. The station does have a huge waveguide filter with steep cutoff below 470 MHz. Rick of CMC-TV in Oakland is seeing it as well as former Family Radio TV engineer Matt in San Leandro.

Blessings,
Keith
President and Engineer, One Ministries, Inc. (KQTA-LD / KQSL)
 

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Hi,

Did anyone see KDTS-LD UHF 14 during its testing today from 10AM to 1PM. It was on during the odd minutes and off during the even minutes. We'll repeat the testing tomorrow. How does its signal strength compare to other stations in the market?

Best Regards,
Keith, KB5JVM
 

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Hi,

Did anyone see KDTS-LD UHF 14 during its testing today from 10AM to 1PM. It was on during the odd minutes and off during the even minutes. We'll repeat the testing tomorrow. How does its signal strength compare to other stations in the market?

Best Regards,
Keith, KB5JVM
I watched the start of the testing and checked out the accompanying subchannels (even though they are only color bars right now). Strong signal here in San Francisco near Market & Van Ness. I'll check on the testing again tomorrow.
 

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Hi,

Did anyone see KDTS-LD UHF 14 during its testing today from 10AM to 1PM.

Best Regards,
Keith, KB5JVM
At work during testing. Sorry.
I'm sure it will work here just fine.

I think Five Canyons Parkway will be the cut off point here in Hayward.
No service east of that street.

However, KQSL 17-1 has full city wide coverage. With no dead zones.
 

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At work during testing. Sorry.
I'm sure it will work here just fine.

I think Five Canyons Parkway will be the cut off point here in Hayward.
No service east of that street.

However, KQSL 17-1 has full city wide coverage. With no dead zones.
Hi Ben,

Thanks! I got reports from the Oakland Hills and Walnut Creek that KDTS-LD was as strong as KGO, KNTV, and KRON! Today is another day of testing. One minute on and one minute off. I'm going to TeamViewer in to remotely control the transmitter. I feel a little bit like George Jetson working for Spacely Sprockets pushing buttons all day. So far it seems like the transmitter doesn't mind being turned on and off 90 days a day. That's great about KQSL-LD 17.1. I plan to move it to Sutro. For the main KQSL 8.1 in Mendocino County, it sounds like I can decommission the huge slot antenna in the future and go to a distributed network with a smaller signal towards Fort Bragg. I can also put a distributed transmitter on Cow Mountain for Ukiah. So, the full power KQSL will become a network of lower powered transmitters. That will save money on rent on the huge installations on Cahto Peak in Mendocino. Also, the ruling last week about Dish TV needing to carry full power stations that deliver a signal via LPTV was awesome. I moved the fiber feeds for KQSL to Sutro. They feed Dish, DirecTV, and U-Verse. In the future I can feed those systems via an LPTV at Sutro. Unfortunately, KDTS-LD doesn't have an auxiliary antenna yet. So, it may have to turn off 20 days a year from 8AM to 5PM when the tower crews are working in the vicinity of the antenna. We first need to prove out the main antenna before we can think about an aux antenna. So, KDTS-LD won't work to feed cable and satellite systems yet. However, moving RF 3 and RF4 to Sutro would work to feed cable systems.

Blessings,
Keith, KB5JVM
 

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Hi Keith... for what it's worth, I was able to decode RF14 up here in El Dorado Hills (20 miles east of Sacramento). Live Bandscan decoded it as KQTA-LD. There is a low power station down in Folsom (KSAO-LD), also on RF14, and about 4 miles and 250 feet below me. I can physically see the top of that tower. I'm guessing the Sutro RF14 transmitter switched on around 10:15 this morning because I could no longer decode KSAO-LD beginning at 10:15 but had about 10-15 minutes where I was able to decode KQTA-LD. Not too shabby for 100 miles and 15kW.


73, Craig - WB6LZV
 

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Hi Larry,

Are you seeing KDTS-LD today? We're doing testing on RF UHF 14 from Sutro Tower at 15 kW ERP. Every odd minute from 10:01 AM until 1PM the transmitter is on. Every even minute the transmitter is off. You should see virtual channels 15, 40, 52, and 26.11
So far no land mobile people have complained. The station does have a huge waveguide filter with steep cutoff below 470 MHz. Rick of CMC-TV in Oakland is seeing it as well as former Family Radio TV engineer Matt in San Leandro.

Blessings,
Keith
President and Engineer, One Ministries, Inc. (KQTA-LD / KQSL)
I found 18 stations originating from KDTS on virtual channels 15, 26. 40 and 52. I tried to see how strong the signal was here, and went through an entire 360 degree rotation on my 8200U antenna and never lost it.

Great news about no complaints from the land mobile folks!

It'll be interesting to find out how far away viewers will be able to receive these channels. RF 14 is the first low power station on Sutro Tower, so you're testing new waters here.

Larry
 

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Hi Keith... for what it's worth, I was able to decode RF14 up here in El Dorado Hills (20 miles east of Sacramento). Live Bandscan decoded it as KQTA-LD. There is a low power station down in Folsom (KSAO-LD), also on RF14, and about 4 miles and 250 feet below me. I can physically see the top of that tower. I'm guessing the Sutro RF14 transmitter switched on around 10:15 this morning because I could no longer decode KSAO-LD beginning at 10:15 but had about 10-15 minutes where I was able to decode KQTA-LD. Not too shabby for 100 miles and 15kW.


73, Craig - WB6LZV
That's amazing! KSAO is only 4 miles away from you and you were still able to receive RF 14 from Sutro Tower! Looking at your station list from the bandscan, I notice where you're able to receive several stations on the same channel as another... definitely "not to shabby"!

Larry
 

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That's amazing! KSAO is only 4 miles away from you and you were still able to receive RF 14 from Sutro Tower! Looking at your station list from the bandscan, I notice where you're able to receive several stations on the same channel as another... definitely "not to shabby"!

Larry
My signals from KSAO are not very strong even though they are close. I suspect the antenna is low on the tower I see and as a result not necessarily LOS. Depending on where it is on the tower, it might even be 2 Edge.

I have another antenna and tuner that I will be setting up on Live Bandscan. My plan is to aim ~290 degrees and start scanning Downtown Sacramento and northward. In the past, I've copied KYUB-LD (15), KBTV (27), KKPM (28), KAHC (30), KFMS (31), KSTV (32), KEZT (34) in addition to the Walnut Grove stations at the expense of the Bay Area co-channels. If I can come up with an invisible VHF-Lo antenna I'd like to try that ;)
 

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That's amazing! KSAO is only 4 miles away from you and you were still able to receive RF 14 from Sutro Tower! Looking at your station list from the bandscan, I notice where you're able to receive several stations on the same channel as another... definitely "not to shabby"!

Larry
Hi Craig and Larry,

I got a report from a Land Mobile licensee that at 11:02 AM today at the top of Mt. Tamalpais he started seeing another channel 14 at -85 dBm. When KDTS-LD is on every odd minute, he measures -64 dBm. So, evidently Sacramento 14 was off for a bit this morning and came back at 11 AM.

Best Regards,
Keith
 

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Any knowledge if the Monterey/Salinas RF ch 14 will be going active with all this other ch14 activity?
I did catch them testing months ago with virtual 43.1 thru 4 and Duplicates of KSBW virtual 8. But it has been off the air since.
 

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Any knowledge if the Monterey/Salinas RF ch 14 will be going active with all this other ch14 activity?
I did catch them testing months ago with virtual 43.1 thru 4 and Duplicates of KSBW virtual 8. But it has been off the air since.
Hi Keith,

I heard the other channel 14s in the area weren't going through the proper testing and notification to Land Mobile. Also, some may have been causing interference to Land Mobile. We had to get a huge waveguide mask filter for KDTS-LD to have the sharpest roll off at 470 MHz. The FCC didn't include any guard-banding between channel 14 and Land Mobile. So, if an LPTV just uses a standard full power mask, they will most likely cause interference. Also, amazingly if you look at the roll off of the full power channel 14 in Dallas, their filter rolls off 5 dB at the pilot carrier. The bottom line is that it is expensive and difficult to turn on a channel 14 LPTV. Nevertheless, this turned out to be a good thing for KDTS-LD, since otherwise the Ion Network station in the Bay Area would have been on channel 14. Instead, they requested to be moved to another channel. The difficulty with channel 14 is what made it available to KDTS-LD and its two channel share partners.

Blessings,
Keith
 

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Hi Craig and Larry,

I got a report from a Land Mobile licensee that at 11:02 AM today at the top of Mt. Tamalpais he started seeing another channel 14 at -85 dBm. When KDTS-LD is on every odd minute, he measures -64 dBm. So, evidently Sacramento 14 was off for a bit this morning and came back at 11 AM.

Best Regards,
Keith
That makes sense that Sacramento 14 was off the air. That was when I copied KDTS-LD. I think they are back on now, but I'm unable to decode it. Likely co-channel interference with KDTS-LD.
 
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