AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's been a few scattered questions about this in various threads, so might as well put it in its own.


I'm in NYC (Northern Queens). Just got the HDT-1X today, and have been checking out the HD on both AM and FM.


I'll limit this, though, to C-Quam reception. I was able to pick up AM 600 WICC out of Hartford, CT. Fairly weak signal where I am, but it did trigger the stereo beacon (the two headphones) on the HD-1X. I could also hear a difference in the audio when it shifted in/out of stereo due to the weak signal.


Now, one caveat. I used to work at an AM Stereo station that disabled their C-Quam broadcasts, but still generated a C-Quam stereo beacon. However, WICC plainly states on their home page that they are, indeed, an AM Stereo station.


From the "Advertising" section of their website:


"WICC radio has Southern Connecticut's best AM stereo signal. Tuning in to WICC is never a problem."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikkster /forum/post/0


There's been a few scattered questions about this in various threads, so might as well put it in its own.


I'm in NYC (Northern Queens). Just got the HDT-1X today, and have been checking out the HD on both AM and FM.


I'll limit this, though, to C-Quam reception. I was able to pick up AM 600 WICC out of Hartford, CT. Fairly weak signal where I am, but it did trigger the stereo beacon (the two headphones) on the HD-1X. I could also hear a difference in the audio when it shifted in/out of stereo due to the weak signal.


Now, one caveat. I used to work at an AM Stereo station that disabled their C-Quam broadcasts, but still generated a C-Quam stereo beacon. However, WICC plainly states on their home page that they are, indeed, an AM Stereo station.


From the "Advertising" section of their website:


"WICC radio has Southern Connecticut's best AM stereo signal. Tuning in to WICC is never a problem."

Thanks for the info. I will try to see if I can receive this AM Stereo station at 600 on the dial. I doubt it though, but I'll try. As far as I an tell there are no AM stereo stations broadcasting in NYC area anymore. There used to be a few of them in the mid 1990's when I got my Denon 680NAB AM Stereo reference tuner but I have not used that tuner in about 7 years. I should pull it out and see if the stereo indicator lights up on any NYC area AM stations still. I don't think there are any, but I want to see for myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbiased /forum/post/0


Thanks for the info. I will try to see if I can receive this AM Stereo station at 600 on the dial. I doubt it though, but I'll try. As far as I an tell there are no AM stereo stations broadcasting in NYC area anymore. There used to be a few of them in the mid 1990's when I got my Denon 680NAB AM Stereo reference tuner but I have not used that tuner in about 7 years. I should pull it out and see if the stereo indicator lights up on any NYC area AM stations still. I don't think there are any, but I want to see for myself.


WREF 850 is in C-Quam stereo and they play music.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
I'm about 30 miles from WICC 600 broadcasting from Pleasure Beach(that's where the antenna is located) in Bridgeport, Ct. I tried two of my tuners with a stereo indicator and I didn't get stereo. I then tried Sangean HDT-1 which has no stereo indicator but is hooked up to McIntosh Preamplifier with which I can instantly switch back and forth from left to two speakers and then right to two speakers. Again I did not get any stereo which I do not understand. A ball game is on--does that make any difference?

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.F. Burns /forum/post/0


WREF 850 is in C-Quam stereo and they play music.

I am not able to get these AM stations in my house. I am only using the indoor loop antenna of the HDT-1x. I was able to get a weak faint station at AM 600 earlier this evening if I held the antenna at the right spot. But it was way too weak to trigger the stereo circuits if it was an AM stereo signal.


I tried again later tonight and am not getting the stations at 600 and 850khz. So I guess that's it for me. No AM Stereo stations here. Thanks for letting me know that AM 850 is in stereo still. I will keep that in mind and see if I can receive it some day when conditions are right. :)


Update: I am tuned to AM 600 right now around 11:25pm, and I hear WICC fading in and out. But mostly very noisey background whistles and AM noises. I hear the announcer's saying the station's call letters. But as said above, signal is so weak it would not come in, in stereo where I am.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by doxytuner /forum/post/0


I'm about 30 miles from WICC 600 broadcasting from Pleasure Beach(that's where the antenna is located) in Bridgeport, Ct. I tried two of my tuners with a stereo indicator and I didn't get stereo. I then tried Sangean HDT-1 which has no stereo indicator but is hooked up to McIntosh Preamplifier with which I can instantly switch back and forth from left to two speakers and then right to two speakers. Again I did not get any stereo which I do not understand. A ball game is on--does that make any difference?

Richard


I believe they carry the Yankees games, and those are undoubtedly mono broadcasts. Most of their programming looks to be talk-oriented, so it would be hard to tell if there was true stereo there unless something was aired that had stereo music.


I'd check the station at a different time if I were you.


On the HDT-1X, I get the stereo indicator (headphones icons), and when I go into the advanced menu, it does show up as a "STEREO" broadcast. The advanced menu lets you switch out of stereo to mono if desired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
960 Posts
Yeah I never bought that they had "removed" C-Quam from later samples. It didn't make sense that someone would go to the trouble to reprogram the firmware in order to REMOVE a feature...particularly a feature that has generated a buzz from AM stereo enthusiasts and stations. If someone buys the tuner (or radio) for AM stereo rather than HD, hey...you've still made a sale!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
I can get WICC as a distant station, if I angle the supplied loop antenna just right I can even get the noise down to a tolerable level but apparently it's still too weak to light the stereo icon. Either that or my sample doesn't support C-Quam. I was able to get the SSI meter to show 1-2 on this station last evening before dusk, but today I can't get it over 0. I assume "SSI" is the "Signal Strength Indicator", right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
unbiased: You might be able to get WREF Oldies 850 in CQUAM Stereo if you purchase the Terk AM Advantage tunable Loop Antenna and directly connect it to your tuner. It has considerable gain and is very selective, as to thwart sideband interference from WCBS 880's HD signal. If you can tune in their analog signal (WREF 850) WITHOUT hearing sideband interference from WCBS, the added directional characteristics of a properly tuned Terk AM Advantage antenna, could very-well mean the difference between NOT hearing the station, and picking it up in CQUAM. WREF is DAYTIME ONLY so forget about trying to get them at night As much as I've distained the virtues of Terk's HDR-I indoor amplified HD antenna, I continue to sing the praises of their classic AM Advantage effort. It has kept me from having to give up on AM radio listening PERIOD since management in my Apartment decided to use commercial-grade compact florescent lighting in the lobby one floor below me. Their interference kills any station below 80dbu from 540 to 1100 kHz. I've gone to the extreme measure of mounting my AM Advantage to my Terrace railing on a PVC pipe tilted to precisely cancel-out this overwhelming RFI level which now allows me to hear WLW 700 some 200 miles away from me in the daytime.

I'm betting the farm that a $35.00 or so investment could open up "Oldies 850" in CQUAM if you get WICC at all on your generic loop!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
960 Posts
In the "good ole' days" of AM stereo, if you could get a stereo station at all, you could get it in stereo. The pilot tone is 20hz...and is much more robust than a 19khz pilot on a distant fm station. Besides, the Sony SRF-A100 didn't even need a pilot tone to decode AM stereo!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
From my location in Oregon, a good AM stereo DX catch (on my HDT-1) is CKMX (1060), Calgary. this is a C&W station, but on Sat. evening they have a Bluegrass program. A bit of "platform movement" can be heard at this distance, as the station fades, but still pretty nice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by afw7962 /forum/post/0


unbiased: You might be able to get WREF Oldies 850 in CQUAM Stereo if you purchase the Terk AM Advantage tunable Loop Antenna and directly connect it to your tuner. It has considerable gain and is very selective, as to thwart sideband interference from WCBS 880's HD signal. If you can tune in their analog signal (WREF 850) WITHOUT hearing sideband interference from WCBS, the added directional characteristics of a properly tuned Terk AM Advantage antenna, could very-well mean the difference between NOT hearing the station, and picking it up in CQUAM. WREF is DAYTIME ONLY so forget about trying to get them at night As much as I've distained the virtues of Terk's HDR-I indoor amplified HD antenna, I continue to sing the praises of their classic AM Advantage effort. It has kept me from having to give up on AM radio listening PERIOD since management in my Apartment decided to use commercial-grade compact florescent lighting in the lobby one floor below me. Their interference kills any station below 80dbu from 540 to 1100 kHz. I've gone to the extreme measure of mounting my AM Advantage to my Terrace railing on a PVC pipe tilted to precisely cancel-out this overwhelming RFI level which now allows me to hear WLW 700 some 200 miles away from me in the daytime.

I'm betting the farm that a $35.00 or so investment could open up "Oldies 850" in CQUAM if you get WICC at all on your generic loop!

Thanks for the tip, I will consider it. Looked at these inductive AM loopers and now I need to decide which one I might get. But the AM 850 station does not even come in at all, so I don't know if these selective AM loop antennas will help with that. No signal to even bite on!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech /forum/post/0


Lots of good info on loop antenna construction here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~loop_antenna/


WARNING: there are several equations, but you really don't need them to build one of the loop projects.

Good stuff for those who like to roll your own and experiment!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Hey guys,


How is the regular AM reception on the HDT-1x? is it noisy?


How's AM HD compared to C-Quam Stereo? a friend said HD-AM sounded like FM!


Just for kicks, I went through the AM band on the GM Delco UX-1 stereo in my 91 Suburban, (the fancy one with an AM-Stereo switch and 5 band EQ) I was able to catch 1450AM out of Portland (from Vancouver, WA) the sound quality wasn't much better although the "STEREO" light came on. I could also pull in 1490 from Kelso, WA which is supposed to be stereo but no light.


I remember there used to be more C-Quam around, lack of a standard and lack of good programming killed it. AM around the Portland area seems to be volatile political talk radio or mexican music.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra71 /forum/post/0


Hey guys,


How is the regular AM reception on the HDT-1x? is it noisy?


How's AM HD compared to C-Quam Stereo? a friend said HD-AM sounded like FM!


Just for kicks, I went through the AM band on the GM Delco UX-1 stereo in my 91 Suburban, (the fancy one with an AM-Stereo switch and 5 band EQ) I was able to catch 1450AM out of Portland (from Vancouver, WA) the sound quality wasn't much better although the "STEREO" light came on. I could also pull in 1490 from Kelso, WA which is supposed to be stereo but no light.


I remember there used to be more C-Quam around, lack of a standard and lack of good programming killed it. AM around the Portland area seems to be volatile political talk radio or mexican music.



You hit it right on with your first reason, but programing had nothing to do with the success or failure of AM stereo. It was the lack of a standard that was the reason that broadcasters joined together to create a standard. One of the parties involved with the AM stereo debacle has been trying to do it again with the new digital radio. The difference is that the broadcasters & the FCC have already established a standard and his system has little support from other than a handfull of smaller broadcasters. He might have had better luck if he had convinced any manufacturers to produce a radio that could decode his digital transmissions. Unfortunately for him, there are no off the shelf radios capable of receiving his signals. I guess what he is facing is similar to what CBS labs faced when NTSC became the TV standard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
960 Posts
Sierra71, the good news is that AM HD is quieter than FM stereo. In fact, it's as quiet (noise-free) as a cd...16 bit audio yields a signal to noise ratio of 96db (6db per bit x 16). The bad news is that, at 32kbps, the bitrate is quite low for AM HD, so unless stations are VERY carefully in how they process (and pre-process) audio prior to encoding, audible compression artifacts can (and often do) result. So is it "as good as fm"? In one respect (noise), it's better. In others, potentially "not so much". Much depends on the quality of engineering at the station, and your tolerance for processing artifacts.


AM HD uses the same codec as FM HD...but at a much lower bitrate than typically used on FM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
I don't listen to much AM myself, but from what I've heard I do feel the HD sounds better than analog. However, I don't think it "sounds" as good as analog FM. Not that I've got an ear for such things (consider me the "average geek" audience - I know "About" these compression artifacts but I can't actually pick them out)


Still, I'm driven by content before quality, so I'd rather listen to an analog AM station broadcasting good content rather than an excellently engineered HD FM station broadcasting crap :b~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra71 /forum/post/0



Just for kicks, I went through the AM band on the GM Delco UX-1 stereo in my 91 Suburban, (the fancy one with an AM-Stereo switch and 5 band EQ) I was able to catch 1450AM out of Portland (from Vancouver, WA) the sound quality wasn't much better although the "STEREO" light came on.

Sierra71,


In the evenings (and also afternoons on weekends), KBPS-AM (1450) broadcasts programming from Portland State, rather than their studio at Benson High. The feed from PSU to the transmitter at Benson is a MONO line, but the stereo beacon is not turned off, this may have been what you heard. Also, some of the source material played by the young folks at Benson may be older mono recordings, but most of the time I hear quite good Stereo. Can you hear any Stereo on 1640 (Radio Disney) ? My HDT-1 does not produce stereo from 1640, but does from 1450. I think that the HDT-1 was not *really* designed to receive C-Quam Stereo, but due to similarities in circuits (sync detector, quadrature demodulator) it does work for C-Quam if conditions are *just right*.


jr
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top