[Bulldogger]

Which has a better picture? I am aware of the disadvantages of both technologies. Ignoring the screen door effect, which has a better more 3D picture. Looks like my selection has come down to these two projectors and possibly the Sony VW11.


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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

 

[btmoore]

what is important to you? Ease of use, native 16:9, cost of consumables, noise, picture quality, contrast, etc, etc.


Regards,


Brian

 

[kelliot]

I've got a G1000 and have seen the PLV-60. For all the press I think I like the PLV-60 a little better at longer viewing ratios and the G1000 at shorter ratios. The G1000 is a little weak on brightness, however if a Panamorph brightens it up, I might change my mind. I think the PLV-60 has better contrast at a given brightness level.


I've not been impressed with what I've read about the Sony.


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Ken Elliott



[This message has been edited by kelliot (edited 07-19-2001).]

 

[Bulldogger]

Thanks Kelliot. Btmoore, I am aware of the disadvantages of both types. I am only concerned with picture quality and contrast.


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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

 

[dreamer]

You say to ignore the screendoor effect, but I think it is critical. At CES I looked really hard for a projector I liked better than my G1000. I don't recall the PLV-60 specifically, but there were plenty of XGA LCDs and DLP new models from Yamaha, Seleco, Runco et al. and the screendoor was very distracting to me.


And in every case, I was sitting more screen-widths away than I do at home.


------------------

*********************

Kirk Ellis

G1000 D-ILA, HTPC, Panamorph (soon I hope),

Dish 6000 (HBOHD,SHOHD,CBS,NBC,ABC,WB,FOX,UPN, KCET -- does it get any better ?)

 

[Bulldogger]

Sometimes this section of the forum becomes almost useless. It is impossible to get any information on projectors without someone who owns a rival technology screaming screen door, rainbow effect, or heat and noise. I am aware of those problems and am just asking for your opinion as to the best picture. So, Dreamer are you saying that the G1000 has a better picture? That's all I am interested in? I AM AWARE OF THE LIMITATIONS OF EACH TECHNOLOGY. WHAT PROJECTOR DO YOU THINK HAS THE BEST PICTURE AND CONTRAST? If for example a HDTV has screen door effect and a 1950's black and white tv did not, telling me that the HDTV has screen door can be misleading if that is the only factor guiding your judgement.


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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

 

[videohot]

You asked "Which has the better picture".


Even with your caveats "I know the disadvantages of both" you're bound to get people touting their own pet technology based on the fact that every projector type has trade offs. Perfect is watching the action in your easy chair in front of you. Everything delivered by a film projector or a video projector is flawed and suffers comparatively.


That said, the three most important things to me PICTURE WISE that D-ILA delivers on are..


No Screen Door


Higher resolution


A "silky smooth" picture after calibration.


That said its a matter of your opinion after factoring the disadvantages of the each technology available at what price point.


If you have the heat, bulb cost, size of the projector, and noise whipped buy a D-ILA IMHO.


I am buying a LT-150 not for use in my HT here but for use in my vacation house 'cause I can stick it in my luggage and it offers a great pic FOR THE PRICE.


Lets try it this way. What car will get you to work the FASTEST. A Ferrari or a VW Bug? umm...are you driving on streets with a speed limit of 30 MPH?


Larry Vale




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G15 D-ILA

Lexicon MC1 7.1 system

Radeon Based HTPC

NHT, velodyne & bag end speaker systems

Panasonic, Dish, HDTV recording setup.

 

[Don O’Brien]

Bulldogger,

You want some real answers, provide the information necessary to determine choice for your unique needs? Also, put shoe leather on the ground and go see them. Nobody can determine which one you will like better. There probably is some grey area when you ask a highly subjective question regarding the "3d" capability of the projector. In the mean time, let us know the answers to the following.

1)Screen size, gain, AR, presence of a masking system?

2)Viewing distance from the primary viewing distance

3)Ability to control ambient light- or personal desire to have ambient light on in the room while watching.

4)What is the color of the ceiling, front wall, floor and side walls in your room.

5)Will you place the projector in a hush box.

6)What is your desired throw distance for the projector.

7)What will be your primary source/s for the projector? Will you use a scaler or HTPC for NTSC sources?


BTW,

this is a forum that provides free advice with no obligation to provide answers that are "framed" to your liking. To say this forum has "almost become useless" degrades the character of the forum. Have you found another source to give you an answer or a demo?


We love to help, we just don't want to be berated because we misinterpreted what your specific needs were.


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STOP HDCP on DVI

Don O


[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited 07-21-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited 07-21-2001).]

 

[Bulldogger]

Thanks Dreamer and Larry. That's all I wanted, your opinion.


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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.


[This message has been edited by Bulldogger (edited 07-21-2001).]

 

[Phat Phreddy]

But to attempt to differentiate screen door from picture quality is plainly wrong also... you ask what has the best picture quality, but (obviously) the relative merits of each technology has a bearing on how the picture quality comes out.. Saying that DILA's resolution and fill factor are unimportant is also incorrect that is one of the strong elements that improves DILA's picture quality..


My guess is that the newer LCD's will have better contrast / black level but DILA will have better color accuracy and a smoother more film like image (due to the fill factor and screen door)...


Good luck in your choices


------------------

[email protected]
HTPC without using windows... GUI Front Ends for Home Theater

 

[videohot]

One other thing. I ordered my first D-ILA having never seen one and was happy. Everything I have seen since hasn't measured up in the picture quality department.


I buy cars, computers, printers you name it from reviews by others.


Larry


------------------

G15 D-ILA

Lexicon MC1 7.1 system

Radeon Based HTPC

NHT, velodyne & bag end speaker systems

Panasonic, Dish, HDTV recording setup.

 

[Don O’Brien]

Bulldog,

all of the above questions are valid.


A calibrated g1000 (500-600 ansi lumens max) on a big, perforated greyhawk screen in a room with poor ambient light control, white walls and ceiling, without masking would produced bad results. In that room the 3D affect would be poor. It is not just about the projector.


If you tell me your prime sitting position is 9 feet from a screen that is 110 inches wide, I would avoid the the Sanyo because the image structure would become apparent.




------------------

STOP HDCP on DVI

Don O

 

[Bulldogger]

I do the same thing. For example reviews and the internet helped me to limit my selections to 3 surround processors. After I did that I jumped on a plane and flew all the way to Arizona to hear the last unit on my list. But had I been limited to what is sold locally, I would have missed out. That decision was easy. I wanted the one that sounded the best with music. I solicited information and received the same kind of responses. That one will never work, "it's only 5.1, "that one will never work it has no component video switching, that one will never work it has no on-screen menu. I did not care about any of that I just wanted the one that had the best 2 channel. Same here, "what's got the best picture?" is all that I am asking. Oh!, 3 emails, already!


------------------

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

 

[kelliot]

I was watching HBO-HD using my G1000 yesterday from about 5PM to 11PM.


At 5PM I would have preferred the PLV60 because the ambient level washed it out. The PLV60 is much brighter under these circumstances.


By 9PM I was getting a great picture that would have beaten the pants off anything with the lights completely off. If I get off the couch for any reason, the lights go on and the picture starts showing washout.


I have a relatively short throw, and my NEC MT1040 has similar screen door to the PLV60. At 2:1 viewing distance to width ratio and a little defocus, the screen door is not noticeable. At 1.5:1 it is noticeable but not necessarily highly objectionable.


I commonly use the MT1040 to save on bulb life on the G1000.

I'll probaly sell one or both soon and get a new projector. It will probably be a XP-30 with a Panamorph if I can get a demo


------------------

Ken Elliott

 

[Bulldogger]

Kelliot, I posted this because there is a G1000 on ebay right now. It has a buy now price of 4000.00 and the bidding starts at 3000.00. If the G1000 does not have that much brightness, perhaps I will consider a DILA with a higher output. You guys insist don't you. Phatt Phreddy , how can I make this more clear? I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH SCREEN DOOR ON THE SANYO PLV 60 OR A DILA. I AM BUILDING A HOME, I CAN SIT BACK AS FAR AS I LIKE or buy whatever device needed to minimize it. Please guys enough already with the screen door, rainbow, noise heat. I already know about that. I give up, you guys insist on making this about screen door, heat and noise or rainbow. Thanks all who have taken their time to e-mail me. I sincerely appreciate your advise. I'll keep reading the reviews. I see Stereophile Guide to Hometheater has no problem stating which projectors they think are better.


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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.




[This message has been edited by Bulldogger (edited 07-21-2001).]

 

[dreamer]

If you want a completely unqualified answer, then this is it:


I looked at the latest available in every technology at CES in January. I found nothing I liked better than D-ILA.


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*********************

Kirk Ellis

G1000 D-ILA, HTPC, Panamorph (soon I hope),

Dish 6000 (HBOHD,SHOHD,CBS,NBC,ABC,WB,FOX,UPN, KCET -- does it get any better ?)

 

[Bulldogger]

There are few place in New Orleans to see such projectors. I know of 6 projectors in a 100 mile radius. I have never seen a DILA projector. There are none anywhere near New Orleans. I am not asking anyone to pick a projector for me. I am asking for your opinion. What do you think has the best picture? I am not limited by any of the things you mentioned Dan. Many of you seem angry that I refuse to be brought into the "screen door vs heat and noise vs rainbow" fight. A lot of others have e-mailed me on the side because they do not wish to enter "the ring" as well. Perhaps I should have just asked to be emailed to avoid all of this. When I do a search on some of you alls post, I see that some are the very ones leading the "fight." I stand by my statements. This is a great forum but often fights about the small differences can completely render this forum useless. Anyone who does not acknowledge this is in denial. I am not attacking the forum as a whole. Kelliot and Mr. Wigggles have consistently given me great advise as have many others. But some have becomes so involved with their pet technologies that they are blinded by them. By taking away the "rainbow, noise heat, screen door" door fight, it seems many do not have much to say http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif . Surely there is more to the picture quality of these technologies. Anyone please feel free to e-mail me. Your opinions and experience are greatly appreciated. Dan, don't try to turn this into a "don't knock our forum" post. If you are angry because I will not accept the "fight" ignore this post. To be honest heat and noise, rainbow, and screen door are not things that concern me. How can I make that more clear? I see clear paths around each limitation.


------------------

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.


[This message has been edited by Bulldogger (edited 07-21-2001).]

 

[Mark Hunter]

Hi Bulldogger,


My opinion will be either worthless or weighty, depending on how you view it.


I was so impressed with the image quality of D-ILA that I quit my job and started a company to provide enhancements to the technology. I believe that the technology is far superior to anything out there, but as you and others have noticed, it just isn't marketed like LCD and DLP projectors.


If you are looking for image quality above all else, the choice is clear...CRT or D-ILA. The contrast, image fidelity, coloration, smoothness and resolution just can't be found in anything else.


Again, the disclaimer is that D-ILA technology has become more than a passing hobby for me.


Having said that, I really liked the Sanyo PLV-60 when I saw it at Infocomm. It didn't make me want to trade in my D-ILA, but it was pretty nice for an LCD.

 

[Phat Phreddy]

Bulldogger, Please see I am not trying to argue with you.. and please note I am not bringing in any factors (bulb cost, heat, noise, rainbow etc) that are inherent in the technology...


Only to ask about picture quality without mentioning screen door (or pixel structure or fill factor or whatever else may be wound up in the same problem) is like asking what has the better picture quality, I don't care about the colors ??? Or what has better PQ I don't care about the contrast??? They are part of the equation. Granted bulb cost, heat etc are just installation and cost hassles and as per your request I have not mentioned them.


I do not own a DILA.. I am not trying to push you either way only relaying information I have gleaned in the hopes it may help you.


------------------

[email protected]
HTPC without using windows... GUI Front Ends for Home Theater

 

[kstirman]

I think for many people the viewing of video is hard to consider without mentioning screen door, heat, noise, etc., because these become aspects of the experience we cannot forget when viewing.


When I think about seeing movies I've liked in my life, invariably things like who I saw them with, where I was, etc., are part of the experience.


For instance, probably the best movie I saw this year was 'Faithless.' Unfortunately, the experience was tainted by an extremely cold theater with seats taht could give you arthritus of the pelvis. Should these factor into my opinion of the movie? Probably not, but the fact is they do.


So, when you ask about these projectors, how can we help but comment on the aspects that signifigantly contribute to our experience of them? Chances are, they will affect you as well.


Kelly