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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was fairly close to purchasing an XP21N when I realized how little vertical resolution I'd actually have when watching letterbox DVDs or HDTV. I'm considering switching to the PLV-60 and would like some feedback on the following:


* It looks like the PLV-60 has enough zoom that I could set it up for 80" wide 16:9 and then use the zoom to blow the image up to 80" wide 4:3 for other sources. Of course, at an 80" wide 4:3 picture, the black sidebars would fall outside the screen area, but with a dark wall, I can't see that being a problem. Anyone tried this or see a problem with it?


* How is the internal scaler on the PLV-60? I understand the built-in deinterlacer is no good, but I'd love to be able to use the PLV-60 with just an iScan Pro. I'd mate it with a Quadscan or CrystalImage, but good deinterlacing is very important to me and the iScan beats both of those scalers for deinterlacing.


I've read hundreds of posts, if not a few thousand, here and elsewhere trying to get a handle on this, but I haven't found good information on the above two questions.


Thanks!


/jab


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Quote:
Originally posted by JAB:
* It looks like the PLV-60 has enough zoom that I could set it up for 80" wide 16:9 and then use the zoom to blow the image up to 80" wide 4:3 for other sources. Of course, at an 80" wide 4:3 picture, the black sidebars would fall outside the screen area, but with a dark wall, I can't see that being a problem. Anyone tried this or see a problem with it?

I don't use the PLV-60 but I have a sony 10ht and they have the same 16:9 panels so things should be similar. I think you will find that most people with this configuration do not optically zoom in and out when going between 4:3 and 16:9, rather they stick with a constant height configuration. By this I mean they set their projector to fit the 16:9 screen and when you watch 4:3 black/gray bars come up on both sides of the 4:3 image while maintaining the same height as the 16:9 image. Some will also opt to digitally crop/zoom the 4:3 in to a 16:9 frame or use their stb/video processor to stretch a 4:3 image to fit a 16:9 frame. You should be able to do what you are talking about but you will have to do some work to figure out what screen configuration is going to work best for 16:9 and 4:3. If you do this you will likely want to buy or build some kind of variable masking system so you can blackout unused sections of the screen. I would recommend looking finding the largest 16:9 screen that would work for you and see if the you find the 4:3 image acceptable.


Make sure you post your scalar question over at the big picture Sanyo forum. You will get a much more focused group of users. I know you are into your tivo but you should consider looking into a HD STB. They do a fair job at upconverting and HD content is a lot better then SD and you can really appreciate it on a FP. For the fun of it I just might try sending the RF feed from my dtivo into one of the RF inputs of my Hughes to see how well it upconverts the composite signal to 1080i. If I get around to it I will post my opinion of how the PQ looks as compared to direct upconvert. A lot of that stuff is already highly compressed and loaded with compression artifacts and it just looks fuzzy when big, there is not much you can do about that


Regards,


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
If you do this you will likely want to buy or build some kind of variable masking system so you can blackout unused sections of the screen. I would recommend looking finding the largest 16:9 screen that would work for you and see if the you find the 4:3 image acceptable.
I was thinking a 80 x 60 4:3. I'd use both all 80" of width for 16:9 and 4:3, masking the unused portion when viewing 16:9. I don't think I'd need to mask the sides on 4:3, because the black bars would be off the screen and a matte black wall behind the screen would probably work well enough.

Quote:
I know you are into your tivo but you should consider looking into a HD STB.
I would only get a HD STB for use as a scaler. I simply won't watch something if it isn't on DVD or TiVo.


I'm not opposed to getting a scaler, but I'm having trouble finding one that doesn't have some glaring problems deinterlacing 480i delivered by S-Video. The iScan will do a good job on deinterlacing, but it doesn't scale. The Faroudja NRS will do a great job on deinterlacing as well, but it won't scale to 1366 x 768. The Vigatec deinterlacer isn't as good as the iScan and it has poor S-Video performance. The Rock deinterlacer is fairly poor and requires manually switching modes. So ... I'll probably either get the XP21N with the Faroudja or some other projector that has a decent internal scaler and an iScan.


As always, thanks for the feedback.


/jab


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I'm going to solve the vertical resolution issue with a Panamorph--that is if the damn thing ever gets delivered! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


I have to say, though, it really isn't much of a problem in my setup without it. The picture is really good.


Still, I'd look hard at the Cinema HD or the PLV60 if this is a concern for you.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's mostly a concern relative to 720p or 1080i. Based on everything I've read, the XP21N performs very well with 480p DVD. Here's precisely my concern:


If I pay close to $9,100 for a projector and scaler, I want to be sure I won't be disappointed with its performance when I eventually start watching HDTV. I would hope to keep this setup at least five years, if not ten.


An alternative plan is to go for a projector that would perform well using an iScan. Since this would trim about $2,600 off my investment, I wouldn't be quite as worried about my investment.


Hmmmm. Would the XP21N likely outperform an RPTV when displaying 1080i or 720p?


/jab


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I'm not as knowledgeable as all you guys but it seems to me that the Sony 11ht (based upon the 10ht performance) has good internal processing which makes an external scaler rather unnecessary? Then there is the Sharp 9000 which everyone seems to think has great processing. Buying a projector that doesn't require external processing to look good really appeals to me. Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'll have to research those two projectors. IIRC, the PLV-60 was generally considered superior to the 11HT.


I was planning to consider the Sharp, but the search function is overloaded, so I haven't been able to sponge any good information.


/jab


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Am I missing something? The vertical resolution will be identical. If you watch 16*9 in the 4*3 of the 21N, you will be using 768 of 1024 lines. If you watch 16*9 on the PLV-60, you will be using all of its 768 lines. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that with the 21N, all you are getting is extra horizontal lines to use when you want for 4:3?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
On the XP21N, a 4:3 picture is 1024 x 768 and a 16:9 picture is 1024 x 576. On the PV-60, a 4:3 picture is 1024 x 768 and a 16:9 picture is 1366 x 768.


/jab


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I just hooked up a Toshiba DST3000 HDTV Receiver to my 21N clone. It would be hard to imagine anyone being disappointed in what I saw. In fact I was very happy with the image quality. It seemed like if the detail and sharpness were increased that it would no longer appear natural. This is not to say I am an advocate for this projector or any 4:3 projector if the goal is to make a purchase that could last up to ten years. So if your hoping not to buy again for ten years I would go 16:9 but probably wait for something with more lumens. Personally I do not think I would want a projector for that length of time unless all progress were to stop now.

Lenny Eckian
 

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I'd use a 4:3 with Panamorph or the PLV-60 without. One thing that people don't mention is that a 4:3 projector is at 75% of the output when used in 16:9 mode.


Hence 2500 lumens becomes 1875 lumens in 16:9 mode. Still good but not overwhelming.


The Panamorph does reduce screen door considerably.


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Ken Elliott
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The Panamorph is something like $2k, yes? Sounds like a good argument for the PLV-60. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


After reading many of the xp21n and plv-60 threads more carefully, I'm finding most of the complaints on both units, ignoring screen door, is the deinterlacer, not the scaler. This leaves open the possibility of using something like the iScan and skipping the external scaler completely.


It seems about half the people posting feel that screen door is worse on the plv-60, because it doesn't have mla, while the other half think it's worse on the xp21n because of increased brightness. I wonder which unit exhibits more screen door when displaying 4:3 images of equal width...?


/jab


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Quote:
Originally posted by leckian:
This is not to say I am an advocate for this projector or any 4:3 projector if the goal is to make a purchase that could last up to ten years.
Wow, 10 years? I doubt if most people on this forum are lucky to make it 10 months without the urge to upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Oh, I didn't say I wouldn't have the urge... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Typically, I upgrade my video display every 5 years, and to date, I've never paid more than $3,700. So, the concept of plunking down $9,100 makes me really want to pick something that will last more than five years. I'd much rather keep the total closer to $5,000.


OTOH, now that I'm exploring that $9k price range, I'm finding some very interesting possible solutions, like the Seleco HT300. If it has powered zoom sufficient to flip between 80" wide 16:9 and 4:3 and streets at about $9k per Alan's claim, it would be a much better solution than a XP21N with a Faroudja NR.


/jab


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