AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 444 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
** Updated last 2/23/2021: Added VNF subs back into the mix behind the MLP seat in addition to the Stacked Tube Cone Up HoverBoss, Mega Bossback and other TR gear, plus updated FR as well HERE

Updated 1/19/2021: Added a few FF subs back into the mix up front behind the AT screen with updated FR etc HERE

Updated 1/17/2021: Added a few still screen shots from the new UHD Trilogy The Hobbit HERE

Updated 12/26/2020: Changed out my MegaHoverBoss Huge multi-seat platform to more efficient single seat Cone Up Lightweight HoverBoss platforms for better TR. Lots of pics etc HERE

Updated 7/21/2020: Added some VibSensor measurements and posted a few TR vids as well. Post can be found HERE

Updated 5/8/2020: Added more BK LFE's for Canti-Lever, as well as for MegaBossBacks for the outer seats. Post can be found HERE

Updated 3/11/2020: Added a lot more TR gear with a HoverBOSS and BossBACK. Also added a lot more updates a few posts up from this one as well. Main latest post can be found HERE

Updated 7/29/2019: Added a 4K HDR projector and other fun HT goodies, Xbox One X and Apple TV 4K. Lots of Pics and impressions of it all HERE

Updated 6/12 & 26/2019: Part 2 & 3 to last update - added updated FR and final thoughts with BOSS sub riser in the system HERE and HERE

Updated 6/4/2019: Part 1 - Added a new BOSS tactile response riser to my system. LOTS of pics with different versions that I tried...you can find that post HERE

Updated 3/5/2019: Added two more 18" DIY sealed subs, a 3rd seat, and two more Crowson MA's. LOTS of pics ...you can find that post HERE

-------------------------

WOOHOO!!!! ..I finally got a dedicated room for my Home Theater!! I've always wanted one for as long as I can remember. I previously had my HT setup in the Living Room. I put a lot of work into that setup and had it about as good as I could get it for a living room. My old thread for that setup can be found HERE (sorry all the images on that page are not showing and haven't had a chance to fix it yet)

The new dedicated room!! YAY!!

So here it is:

Room Size:
1400 cuft (13'x13'x8') sealed room on a suspended floor

Equipment:
AVR/Players
Denon AVR-X6300H
Oppo UDP-203
Xbox One X
Apple TV 4K

Video
Epson 5040UB 4K Projector
SeymourAV 16:9 120" Retractable AT Screen

Speakers
KEF Q Series in a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos configuration
- Q900's (Front - Left, Center, and Right)
- Q100's (Surrounds & Heights)

Subs/TT's
DIY Stereo Integrity DS4-18's (x4) & DIY Dayton UM22-18's (x2)
Buttkicker LFE (x7)
Crowson Shadow 8 Motion Actuators (x6) - 2 per seat
Cone Up HoverBoss with 6x 12" JBL woofers directly underneath the seating
MegaBossBack on each seatback (1x 12" JBL + BK LFE)

Amps/External PEQ
Inuke6000DSP (x4)
Buttkicker BKA1000-N Power Amp (x4)
MiniDSP 10x10HD

Seating
Pembroke HT Design (x3)

Treatments
GIK corner bass traps in the rear corners floor to ceiling. Front wall covered with 2" Roxul Rockboard 80 and the first reflections on the side walls for the front L,C, and R speakers are done with 1" OC703. Also all walls and ceiling covered with SY Triple Black Velvet + a black shag rug over the light colored carpet (all for video PQ and distraction free viewing, not for sound treatment). To help liven the room back up a little from all the velvet, GIK Alpha 6A's with 2a scatter plates on the back wall as well as 8 GIK Gridfusors - 6 on the ceiling and 2 on rear cack walls.

Overview (Pics and info don't include the 3rd seat addition and HoverBOSS's that were added to the system.)
With my previous setup in the living room, I became a HUGE fan of VNF (Very Near Field) subs + Tactile Transducers and Crowsons MA's. So I pretty much set it up the same way in this new room with a sealed 18" VNF behind each of the two seats and the other 2 sealed 18's Far Field (if you can call them that in this small room), + the 2 BK LFE's and 2 Crowsons MA's per seat as well. No way was I giving these up!!!! I'm still amazed at what subs with drivers facing into the back of your seat as close as you can get them will do for Slam/Impact and Tactile Response when it comes to the bass in movie soundtracks.

Its a pretty small room at around 1400 cuft, but is working out great. I love it and is so nice to finally have my setup in a dedicated room. I pretty much blacked out the entire theater for the best image quality possible with no light reflections. I got the idea from the "Theater Blackout" thread. I'm in awe of what blacking out the room did for the Picture Quality. Contrast, Black Levels, Shadow Detail, and Brightness went way up and helped tremendously compared to what I was used too. Also, it's really cool to have the image look like it's floating in black space. When the movie is going, I pretty much see nothing but Image, which is one of the things I was after.

I set pretty close to a 16:9 120" AT screen, so it feels huge and very immersive. Eyes to screen are about 7' exactly in recline mode. Yes it's breaking the "Rules", but feels just about right to me on the majority of content ....not overwhelming, just IMMERSIVE.

The Room
So first up, the room itself. It's small and not the fanciest room ever, but it works. It's quite dark with all the surfaces (ceiling, walls) covered in Black Velvet and the floor covered with a Black Shag Rug, which is fantastic for when the movie is going (most important to me and what I was after), but still pretty dark at other times even with the lights on. It's pretty much a 'Get Down to Business' kind of room and optimized for this. So it makes it a little tougher to see what's going on with everything, but I tried to photograph it the best I could to hopefully give a good idea.


Some fire power behind the seats ..YEAH!!


A shot from the closet where the projector, Amps, and PC are at


Not reclined ..which I never watch movies this way but thought I'd better get at least one photo like this


Here is a shot of the back part of the room with all the surrounds, top front and top rear heights (for 7.1.4 Atmos) with room treatments, plus my little area in the back where I keep my PC, amps, and projector at (which worked out perfectly to give me more throw distance that was needed with my current projector).


Lighting
I put 3 lights up front that can light the screen and 2 lights above the two seats (1 above each), but had to make Black Velvet blinders to hang in front of front 3 lights so that I can't see the reflections in them during the movie. Having everything else blacked out, this was quite distracting, but this TOTALLY solved the problem.


Blackout
So I had to take the door of to get the black shag rug in for the final touches in the blackout process, so I took a few pics when I did that that will give another perspective. Also shows how shaggy the black shag rug is. It makes the room feel pretty cozy and really helps finish off the blackout process with everything else covered in SY Triple Black Velvet. It also helped quite a bit with PQ and total immersion from whats on the screen only. I guess I just didn't realize how much a light colored floor can light things up and take away from the visual impact, even with everything else covered in black already.

L,C,R Speakers are behind the drop down AT screen ...


Cozy Black 'Shag' Rug ...and surprisingly, it's just almost as dark as the Triple Black SY Velvet!


FR (Frequency Response)
So in a room this small, I was able to get pretty flat down to 5 Hz, which was cool. A square room made it kind of tough, but with three locations and multiple subs I was able to get a pretty flat response with speakers crossed at 90 Hz


With the MultEQ Audessey Editors App and roll off #2 my FR is pretty flat across the board with that 2k dip - MidRangeComp that Audy puts in (which can be enabled or disabled for any of the speakers with the Editors App). Also I'm running a very slight rising house curve. RED is All Subs Only (because it's so easy to get this reading now since I've switched to HDMI for REW on the mac) then varying sub boosts combined with Left, Center, and Right front channels. I tend to run my subs like the ones with about 12-15db boost above the speakers (with no DEQ) on the majority of movie material.



TR (Tactile Response)
Now for the TR - I'm a tactile junkie (I should probably be in some sort of rehab for it lol). I like a lot of it. Besides the VNF subs right behind the seats with the drivers firing into them, I like Transducers and Crowson MAs as well. I love what they can do all combined together - it creates a pretty darn power synergy, and continues on with the 'Intense' thing for movies that I love and was after. I run 2 Buttkicker LFE's and 2 Crowson Shadow 8 MA's per seat, a sealed 18" behind each seat, + 2 more sealed 18's Far Field (if you can call them that in this small room), plus I'm on a suspended floor. Probably overkill, but that kind of seems to happen around this place. I really like both the Crowsons and the BK's, but for different reasons. So I just run them both! With 2 BK's bolted directly to the frame under the seat, it can give me the feeling of being on a trampoline when cranked up, which I LOVE!! I run and love the Croswon MA's as well. The BK LFE's and Crowson MA's mix very well together IMO, which I think is awesome and can get what each have to offer (a best of both worlds kind of thing).

Here's a few pics of the seats, BK LFE's, Crowson MA's and VNF subs setup








And a shot from the front underneath the seat


A few older pics
So here are a few pics that I took along the way getting the room ready. Since my entire room is pretty much blacked out now with the Black Velvet, it's kind of hard to see what's what going on in the pics sometimes. These show the speakers and locations etc a little better with the walls completely bare before I did any treatments or black velvet. This setup was really fun with only one recliner with the subs surrounding me for a little while. I hit the image limit per post so you can see the images if your interested in this post HERE (sorry all the images on that page are not showing and haven't had a chance to fix it yet)


More Pics and Other Stuff
A little entry way decor and some color. All photo's were taken with my iPhone7

Got Wonder Woman (yup I'm a Gal Gadot fan as you'll probably see) and the Cap standing guard




White Screen shot from just inside the closet (where the amps, projector, and PC are at) behind my two seats



A few Movie Screen Shot Stills ...

MARVEL ..Since I seem to love pretty much all the Marvel movies


MARVEL ..Another ..back corner shot, plus I just thought the image and coloring looked cool


HULK!!!


LUCY!! - Love this movie, has fantastic visuals, bass, and it has Scarlet Johansson! I was looking for a still shot capture that was captivating ..I was thrilled when I came across this! This one feels pretty darn cool sitting right in front of it on the big screen and fills up a huge portion of my vision.


WONDER WOMAN - this is one of my favorite moments in the movie and really caught me be surprise the first time I watched it. Since I was'nt ready for it, the bass impact and what happened was so cool!



Yep, more Wonder Woman (she's just so cool, and uh, well ya know ... :D)


TRON: LEGACY - Sitting as close as I do to the 16:9 120" screen (7' eyes to screen when reclined), Tron is a TRIP, especially when it shifts to IMAX full screen aspect! This movie brings the bass too, and is one of my favorites. It really does feel like I'm right there in the light cycle battle. A lot of other movies make me feel like I'm right there as well, but Tron in particular somehow manages to push it to the next level and make me feel even more there, like right there inside the movie experiencing it or something. It's kind of freaky sometimes, but I love it, and is tough to describe they way it makes me feel. It's like nothing I've experienced in Home Theater quite like this before. Besides just being close to a real big screen and no other distractions because of all the velvet blackouts, I really do think its partially the way the movie is filmed (graphics style and editing, etc) with all the NEON colored lights, the way they flow fluidly on the screen a lot of times, along with the numerous silky smooth pans. It all just seems to just add up to that feeling of being right there in it. I think Tron is probably my favorite movie for making me feel this way. And it feels this way in a large majority of the movie, not just the light cycle scenes. The last part of the movie where they are doing a lot of flying is pretty crazy feeling.


TRANSFORMERS:TLK - I always love the visuals and all the shiny metal in Transformers


GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY II ((3D)) Yup, I'm a big 3D fan as well! This bubble scene is one of my favorites for 3D. It switches to 1:85:1 full screen aspect a lot of the time which works good on my screen (since it's 16:9). The bubbles feel like they are right out in front of me and I could reach out and touch them, or even might float into me! If you look in the bottom right image, it looks pretty crazy. The worse it looks when your 3D glasses are off like that, the better the 3D usually is


Listening Habits and what I tried to achieve with this room and setup
I'm really into and LOVE movies, so I mainly use my system for this only. I've tried my best to optimize this room and setup for such. I watch a lot of movies and also am an avid movie Demo'er (I'm addicted to it, and is a rush for me). A lot of times it feels Euphoric, kind of like a drug I guess you could say. So besides just watching the movies, I like to demo a little bit everyday (if I can fit it in) to get my Home Theater movie and bass "FIX" :D These are usually just short sessions and is one of my favorite things to do, and probably always will be. I have all my Blu Ray movies ripped to MKV lossless files (except for the 3D movies) and put on an external drive. I just connect it to my Oppo player, and it works so fast and easy to get to whatever movie and/or section I want when it's demo time. Not the fanciest thing, but works great.

I love intensity and realism when it comes to the Home Theater experience. The more I can feel like I'm actually in the movie experiencing everything, the more I love it. This means video immersion, bass and tactile energy, surround sound, and total envelopment as a whole with no distractions. The blacking out of the room, plus the FarField, Very NearField subs, Crowson MAs and Buttkicker LFEs, 'Big Screen' with seating pretty close for great video immersion, all really come together to give me what I was after. Of course it took quite a bit of fine tuning and experimenting along the way to get it to feel natural, yet still very intense and realistic as well (to me anyway), but was worth the time and effort to get it there.

Also one of the things I love most about the way I have it setup with the VNF (Very Near Field) subs + the small army of BK LFE's and Crowson MA's, is that I'm able to get the kind of Slam/Impact and Tactile intensity from the bass that I crave (pretty extreme intensity sometimes, which I love), even at fairly moderate to low listening levels. At night I can only get away with listening at about -25mv or so (but bass and tactile can still feel pretty intense because of the VNFs, MAs, and BK LFEs, which is way cool and keeps it fun and exciting). During the day I listen louder, but still not at extreme SPL levels. I rarely get over -15 to -10 Master Volume (which can still seem pretty darn loud in this small room), although I do run my subs quite hot most of the time (usually anywhere from 10db to 20db hot, depending on the movie). I can adjust this fast and easy on the fly whenever I feel the need. I feel that the way the bass levels are mixed in some of these movies, sub trim levels just need a little (or a lot occasionally) adjustment sometimes to get the absolute most balanced, clean and powerful sound and feel out of the track. I have no problems doing this, as I'm not really a set a forget it kind of guy anyway (I'm kind of a tweaker by nature I think lol). I'm cool with that, although I know most folks 'are' the set and forget kind. I'm a perfectionist sometimes (or most of the time) when it comes to this stuff (its probably a curse, but I deal with it) and just feel the need to adjust on the fly when need be (quick and easy). EDIT: BassEQ these days (about 2 years after I wrote that,) pretty much eliminates the need for such adjustments and running bass as hot, as it fully restores the bass that was filtered out of most movies, back to full band and normal levels. BEQ ROCKS, especially if you are a ULF Bass and TR lover!!!!!!

But anyway, what I was trying to get at was that I can achieve the level of bass intensity (slam/impact and Tactile Response) that I crave without having to kill my ears with extreme SPL levels in the process. It keeps movie watching and demoing fun without hurting my ears and hopefully not pissing too many of my neighbors off, and still be able to get what I desire.

Final Thoughts
The room is really getting there now. It was quite a bit of work and I still have a few things to add (like a few more acoustical treatments and a 4K projector eventually, maybe even a 3rd seat, although a 3rd will be tight in this small room but will put 1 seat back to dead center in the sweet spot for me, instead of having to share dead center and splitting the difference with two seats). It was a LOT of fun getting the room ready and things set up. I'm loving it so far and is everything I had hoped a dedicated room could be. Hopefully I'll continue to enjoy it for many years to come!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Great job. Looks like a one man palace. Not sure you have any reason to ever leave that room!!!!!
Thanks Frohlick! At the moment yes, a one man show for sure LOL. I don't know how long I can get away with that though with only the one chair, the wife and daughter are gonna want a place to sit for some movie time pretty soon I'm sure. Good excuse to get some HT chairs like I've always wanted though I guess :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I concur, great job. Its so good to see you go dedicated and will be watching intently as this room's progress. Performance is off the chart.:cool:
Thanks Dave! Ok I've got my thread going, you need to get yours started as well like we were talking about, cause your room and setup is freakin awesome and was a big inspiration for mine!! :cool: :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
mating differing subwoofers

Did you have any trouble mating the ported and sealed subs attributable to phase shifts or rolloff frequencies of the different units. I have a pair of SVS 16 sealed enclosure ultras. They seem pretty good into the low teens but do not have the chest slap punch that can be present in many movies. . I also have an 18 inch JBL subwoofer in a home built 8 cubic ft enclosure tuned to about 26 cps as was done in the JBL 460 sub containing the same driver and also the same volume. I wanted to get the JBL to help out in the punch realm (40 to 90 cps ?) not the super low effects range. Any suggestions? I do have the JBL on a Crown amp with some parametric eq capabilities bridged to put out 1kw. The JBL is not a super long excursion sub 20 cps unit but does have an efficiency of 95 dB/watt at one meter). It has a max excursion of one inch. The SVS subs are at the movie screen end of the room and the big JBL is at the rear of the room about 26 feet away. I sit about 2/3 back in the room or about 14 ft from the screen(svs subs) and less than 8 ft from the JBL sub. .
 
  • Like
Reactions: SBuger

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
YES YES YES!

Nothing like a small dedicated room !


Due to the outstanding bass a small room offers, I find music way more enjoyable in a room of that nature for serious eyes closed listening.


Great job on blacking out the room.......blacking it out makes all the difference I think.......you are way ahead of me as I did not do the entire room yet, since I will be building out a new dedicated room soon, but it will still be pretty small approx. 40 square foot bigger than now which is 12x12.....new will be approx. 10x18 with a AT screen up front, so more like 10x16 usable.


Having a dedicated room allows you to do things you never would in a dual use living room.....or that would never get approved anyway....:D


A huge area is cool, but I like the feel of a smaller space.....

I am not sure your plans, but I went with carls progrey screen as it just staples to the wall so it gives you maximum viewing distance and size........I will be getting rid of mine in favor for a AT spandex screen as I want a AT screen. Not sure your PL or throw distance but you might want to consider a huge spandex screen for the biggest picture possible and AT qualities........or leave alone how you have it if happy.....;) I have mine at the max picture size it will do, almost 140 diagonal at approx. 9 foot eye to screen distance.......I wanted 150, but that would require cutting a peep hole into the closet to get the additional PJ distance. If I was not planning on a new room, I would do that for sure, especially for 3d, but for regular as well.......


Great job !
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
So whats your final thoughts on concrete VS suspended floor ?


My take is with enough firepower and TT`s, it is a mute point........it is going to take a HUGE amount of subs and structural floor movement to equal a couple VNF`s and some good TT`s........I do not think you could get that kind of action thru the floor without structural damages.....LOL

I know my cheap clark with a single ht 18 behind the seat on a concrete floor is really moving things. I am just not sure it is even possible to get that much action on a suspended floor with subs 6 to 12 foot away.


I have never felt big/lots of subs on a suspended floor ?


The reason I am so intent on the difference is that in my new room, I could do a suspended floor over the concrete....I guess a decoupled floor would be the better term, but I am not even sure I would notice the difference due to running a TT and a VNF . The second row on the riser will benefit I am sure as it will not have VNF`s or TT`s..........
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
Thanks Frohlick! At the moment yes, a one man show for sure LOL. I don't know how long I can get away with that though with only the one chair, the wife and daughter are gonna want a place to sit for some movie time pretty soon I'm sure. Good excuse to get some HT chairs like I've always wanted though I guess :)

Having had 2 sets of dedicated recliners now, I would drive up to 2 hours away to sit in my next set first and bring a sack lunch, because 10 minutes in them has no meaning on how my back feels after 2 to 6 hours on them.



I am in them now as I have my computer ran thru the PJ, I use it for everything, my living room tv has been off for over 8 months now as I borrowed the surge protector everything was wired to in the front room ....LOL


Upside is the living room stays nice and clean and organized as it gets no use.........:rolleyes:

Downside is these HT recliners........I am not the sure the ones I have are meant for sitting in all the time hours on end.


So I will be camping out in the ones I plan to buy next time to make sure they cut it.......I am eying the ones like Steve Callas got for his theater.......oversized singles, my new ones are standard width and are not fun for long and not conductive for having a lady sit with you.......the last ones were about 8 inches wider and while not oversized or a double recliner they were big enough to allow a lady to snuggle with you or to just sprawl out and relax.

Everyones preferences are different, I just thought I would mention my observations of dedicated HT seats......

One set is 25 between the armrests and while fine for a solo 90 minute movie......everything else, not so good. The others are 27 inches between the arm rests and that 2 inches is a amazing difference....bottom line is I would do a ton of chair setting, even if it meant making a long trip to do so....:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did you have any trouble mating the ported and sealed subs attributable to phase shifts or rolloff frequencies of the different units. I have a pair of SVS 16 sealed enclosure ultras. They seem pretty good into the low teens but do not have the chest slap punch that can be present in many movies. . I also have an 18 inch JBL subwoofer in a home built 8 cubic ft enclosure tuned to about 26 cps as was done in the JBL 460 sub containing the same driver and also the same volume. I wanted to get the JBL to help out in the punch realm (40 to 90 cps ?) not the super low effects range. Any suggestions? I do have the JBL on a Crown amp with some parametric eq capabilities bridged to put out 1kw. The JBL is not a super long excursion sub 20 cps unit but does have an efficiency of 95 dB/watt at one meter). It has a max excursion of one inch. The SVS subs are at the movie screen end of the room and the big JBL is at the rear of the room about 26 feet away. I sit about 2/3 back in the room or about 14 ft from the screen(svs subs) and less than 8 ft from the JBL sub. .
I'm actually running my 'Johnny' (ported) sub up front farfield in sealed mode at the moment to go with my other sealed 18's NF. I just stuffed the ports and set then limiter on the Inuke amp to avoid over excursion on the driver since the box is a little bigger. Seems to work great doing this. But I have messed around a little bit with running it in its normal ported mode as well. It does need some work to get the phase differences of the two to line up. I got them lined up as well as I could by using an HPF with the different BW oct filters with in the miniDSP and worked pretty well. Although that said, whether in sealed or ported mode, my square room made it tough to get the Farfeild and Nearfield subs working together because of room modes and cancellation issues. That can be trying on its own sometimes, not to mention trying to get the phase differences of sealed and ported subs to line up. I got it to work out ok, even when I run it ported, but wasn't the easiest in this square room, along with where my seating location has to be.

About your Mid Bass, it can be tough to get and hard to figure out sometimes. What I've found, if at all possible, try not to have any dips in your FR in that very important 50-80hz region. I'm sure that's obvious and something you probably already know, but thought I would mention it anyway. It can be bad news for feeling the Mid Bass in the chest if you have a null or big dip somewhere in that region. If your FR is pretty good in this region though and is still lacking, my suggestion would be to try to get one of your subs (or an MBM) as close to you as you can, preferably right behind your seat with the driver facing into you if possible. You'll probably have the best chance at feeling the mid bass with it positions like this if you can make it fit. And again, try to get rid of any dips/nulls in that all important MB region if you can.

If you do want to try a sub behind your seat to help mid bass punch but don't have much room for it, you may try a Behringer 1200d like a lot of folks are using. I use one as well. Its pretty small and is very effective. If your interested, you can find some info on it and quite a few folks that integrated one or more of them in the thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2434250-nearfield-ported-mbm-increased-mid-bass-tactile-response.html

Or maybe something from the diysoundgroup site. Those would probably work fantastic as well, or even better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
YES YES YES!

Nothing like a small dedicated room !


Due to the outstanding bass a small room offers, I find music way more enjoyable in a room of that nature for serious eyes closed listening.


Great job on blacking out the room.......blacking it out makes all the difference I think.......you are way ahead of me as I did not do the entire room yet, since I will be building out a new dedicated room soon, but it will still be pretty small approx. 40 square foot bigger than now which is 12x12.....new will be approx. 10x18 with a AT screen up front, so more like 10x16 usable.


Having a dedicated room allows you to do things you never would in a dual use living room.....or that would never get approved anyway....:D


A huge area is cool, but I like the feel of a smaller space.....

I am not sure your plans, but I went with carls progrey screen as it just staples to the wall so it gives you maximum viewing distance and size........I will be getting rid of mine in favor for a AT spandex screen as I want a AT screen. Not sure your PL or throw distance but you might want to consider a huge spandex screen for the biggest picture possible and AT qualities........or leave alone how you have it if happy.....;) I have mine at the max picture size it will do, almost 140 diagonal at approx. 9 foot eye to screen distance.......I wanted 150, but that would require cutting a peep hole into the closet to get the additional PJ distance. If I was not planning on a new room, I would do that for sure, especially for 3d, but for regular as well.......


Great job !
Thanks unretarted!

Yeah might as well wait until you get your new room to totally black it all out (I'm sure it'll be great!) You mentioning to me about using black velvet for all walls, ceiling and floor in the VS thread a while back was the last little push I needed to do my room this way :) I had already been thinking about doing that instead of the flat black paint for part of it. And yes, I really do think it makes all the difference. In fact, I just cant hardly get over what it has done for the PQ, along with no distractions. I can only imagine what one of the top end 4K projectors would look like in a totally blacked out room. Now that I've experienced it, I don't think I could ever go back. Kind of like having the VNF subs, once experienced, it ruins you and ya cant go back :cool:.

LOL, yep ...this would have never went over in the living room with black velvet on the ceiling and everywhere. It had to be in dedicated room and one more reason for me making the transition to this room.

Cool, I think you'll like an AT screen. It's really nice having your speakers behind the screen for various reasons. Thanks for the idea on the spandex screen. It would have been a great option if I couldn't have put my projector in the closet to get more throw distance. I think the min throw for a 120" screen on the Epson 5030 that I have is like 12.7' or something. So the closet worked out just right if I wanted to use my AT screen with speakers behind it. I'm pretty limited on where my seating has to go, because not only of the small room with the screen being out away form the wall 2-3' to allow for the sub and speakers, but because of my VNF subs that I have to have behind my chair as well. That means the seat(s) have to be out from the back wall about 2' or so as well.

Sounds just about right with your 140" (or even 150") diagonal with your eyes to screen at 9'. I'm sure it feels/seems quite large and immersive! That is something that I wanted as well. I was 9.5' away from my 120" screen in my last setup in the living room, but wanted to be closer so it would be bigger, but didn't want the couch moved out into the living room any more than it was. So up in this new room, I messed with it quite a bit to get that exact feel/size that I wanted. I started at about 8', then just kept inching my seat forward until I got what I was after. I ended up with eyes to screen right about at 7' even. Its pretty intense and feels just about right for my tastes. Very immersive and big feeling in scope. In 16:9, it feel absolutely HUGE. Any closer than I am now, and it's just to much and I start wanting to scoot back some. So for now, I'm really, really happy with the size for as close as my seat is to the screen. Not that a 140-150" screen wouldn't be freaking awesome, but I'd most definitely have to move my seat back some (or a lot).

One thing I haven't tried yet in this new setup, is 3D, but I'm thinking it should be pretty killer with the screen feeling as big as it does in 2D. I love 3D, and the closer and the bigger the image you can get, the better the 3D is IMO (to a certain point at least).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So whats your final thoughts on concrete VS suspended floor ?


My take is with enough firepower and TT`s, it is a mute point........it is going to take a HUGE amount of subs and structural floor movement to equal a couple VNF`s and some good TT`s........I do not think you could get that kind of action thru the floor without structural damages.....LOL

I know my cheap clark with a single ht 18 behind the seat on a concrete floor is really moving things. I am just not sure it is even possible to get that much action on a suspended floor with subs 6 to 12 foot away.


I have never felt big/lots of subs on a suspended floor ?


The reason I am so intent on the difference is that in my new room, I could do a suspended floor over the concrete....I guess a decoupled floor would be the better term, but I am not even sure I would notice the difference due to running a TT and a VNF . The second row on the riser will benefit I am sure as it will not have VNF`s or TT`s..........
I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement right there. With a VNF right behind your seat + TT's, I think you'd get structural damages to get the same kind of action form a suspended floor to keep up with what former provides. With the VNF's + TT's, I honestly don't think I was missing anything when I was on concrete compared to now being on a suspended floor. Being reclined for movies, it does feel just a tiny bit different occasionally (a little more depth maybe), but very, very, very similar. Sometimes a bit better, and sometimes maybe not quite as good, for whatever reason on certain clips. But that could be do to other things as well, like different seating (as we've discussed before) or the way its all integrated to work together having to deal with different variables (room primary) to get the desired FR, TR, PR etc that your after.

But with that being said about them feeling very similar, I will say that I have to run my TT/MA's about 7db's higher to get close to the same intensity and feel. That could actually be the suspended floor working against the TTs/MA's (although I don't think so, but ya never know) or may be the different seating. I think mainly its my seating. My couch (when I had my setup downstairs) had a LOT of flex, and I think that really worked well with the BK's. They seem to work great with the single recliner as well, but maybe not as efficiently. That, or maybe my TA (Time Alignment) is off just a bit between the two. Although that's probably not it because with TT/MA's only, I still have to turn them up more to get close to the same feel as I did on my couch with a bunch of flex in it. It feels great though, so I really haven't wanted to dive into a bunch of testing to figure it out, which is really unlike me (I usually love that stuff). I think I'm just mainly wanting to enjoy the new room, get back to my daily demoing and get caught up on some movies that I haven't seen yet :) Today I did quite a lot of demoing and was so much fun. Things sounded and felt just about perfect to me. Bass (TR, Impact, envelopment etc) and overall sound and video were just about right for my preferences. I demoed at -10mv with my normal 9-15db hot subs depending on the movie. Kind of makes me not want to mess with or test anything with the VS for TA etc. But I probably should at some point to see if I can get a little more efficiency at lower gain levels out of the TT's and MA's. After a little bit of 'The Incredible Hulk" and then bumping up the MV to around -5mv on Mad Max Fury Road, my Crowson MA's got Waaaaaaaay to hot and went into protect mode and shut down. Although I know these two movies are so hard on MA's (or TT or Subs), it makes me wish Randy Crowson would make some an Ultra Hardcore beefed up Edition of the MA's that could withstand all the abuse you could throw at them without having to worry about them heating up to much and shutting down. Yeah I know most folks don't run them like that, but I guess I'm not most folks when I'm in the mood for all they can give LOL.

So anyway, I also wanted to say (before I started going off on a tangent for today's demoing session ), with that said about a suspended floor up above, if one did not use VNF's or TT or both, then I think it could really help a lot, especially if ones seating didn't recline and feet were on the floor. But if reclined and you use VNFs and TT's, they are just so darn hard to compete with. In fact IMO, suspended floor cant even come close, but is still cool.

So about you building some type of suspended floor over the top of your concrete, I don't know if it would even be worth it for you to mess with putting that kind of floor in compared to just concrete. You may ask @coolrda's opinion on it as well, since he put down wood flooring over his concrete. As you know, he uses VNF and Crowsons MAs as well. Last I heard, he did like it more compared to just concrete. So it may be worth it for you to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Having had 2 sets of dedicated recliners now, I would drive up to 2 hours away to sit in my next set first and bring a sack lunch, because 10 minutes in them has no meaning on how my back feels after 2 to 6 hours on them.



I am in them now as I have my computer ran thru the PJ, I use it for everything, my living room tv has been off for over 8 months now as I borrowed the surge protector everything was wired to in the front room ....LOL


Upside is the living room stays nice and clean and organized as it gets no use.........:rolleyes:

Downside is these HT recliners........I am not the sure the ones I have are meant for sitting in all the time hours on end.


So I will be camping out in the ones I plan to buy next time to make sure they cut it.......I am eying the ones like Steve Callas got for his theater.......oversized singles, my new ones are standard width and are not fun for long and not conductive for having a lady sit with you.......the last ones were about 8 inches wider and while not oversized or a double recliner they were big enough to allow a lady to snuggle with you or to just sprawl out and relax.

Everyones preferences are different, I just thought I would mention my observations of dedicated HT seats......

One set is 25 between the armrests and while fine for a solo 90 minute movie......everything else, not so good. The others are 27 inches between the arm rests and that 2 inches is a amazing difference....bottom line is I would do a ton of chair setting, even if it meant making a long trip to do so....:D
Thanks for sharing your experience with the chairs.

I hear ya, if I could drive 2 hours or even a little more around here to check out some chairs just to see and get a feel for them I would, but nothing like that around here. I could definitely see where a bigger chair might be good for you if you like having your girl close or in the same seat with you for movie time or even just to sprawl out a little more and relax like your were saying. So a bigger chair or maybe enve a love seat style HT chair.

I'm struggling a little bit on pulling the trigger on some seats, but will need to do it pretty soon probably. I really do want and need 3 seats in this room. Also, as we've discussed before, they can make quite a difference in performance and the way the TR feels, as well as size and comfort like your talking about now as well.

I think the biggest thing I'm struggling with is that I'm just not sure how I'll be able to make my BK LFE's work with most HT seating. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to give them up very easily if I cant get them mounted into or right behind the back of the frame somehow and still feel good. I really do like them damn BK LFE's. I wish I didn't, but I do LOL.

I think I'll probably end up with a row of 3 'Pembrokes' like coolrda or the Seatcraft Sonomas and just take my chances ordering them online. Some of the testing he has done on his (objectively and subjectively) show they give some great TR with the MA's (at least with them in a certain location), as well as being comfortable for long periods of time (like 6 hours or more at a time IIRC).

Speaking of which, I've been meaning to ask you @coolrda, if I end up with 3 of the 'Pembrokes' (with arm rests for each seat), with having to position them like you showed in the Crowson thread a while back (not under the arms rests, but more inward on the frame), do you think I would need 2 per seat (six total)? I was originally planning on only 4 all together - one on each outer leg under the armrests (on the back of chair) for the two outside seats, and then the middle seat sharing the other two with the outside seats, making each chair have two on each back corner basically (if that makes sense). Or I guess I could put two under the middle MLP chair, and only one under each outside chair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,292 Posts
Great room, man. I’ve been meaning to comment on your setup earlier, and now that you finally have a proper thread, i can go ahead :)

This room has it all, blacked out, PJ & screen, farfield and nearfield subs, Crowsons AND Buttkickers and proper setup. This has to be close to nirvana on all the senses ;)

Very nice job, and enjoy watching movies :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: biga6761 and SBuger

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,950 Posts
Installing the wood floor in the room was strictly for continuity, to match the rest of the home. Aethetically it just looks better. I'm even surprised how much I prefer it. The tactile gains are a plus but knowing what I know now I wouldn't do it for that reason only. For tactile, VNF's+MA's rule the day and nothing else is close.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Great room, man. I’ve been meaning to comment on your setup earlier, and now that you finally have a proper thread, i can go ahead :)

This room has it all, blacked out, PJ & screen, farfield and nearfield subs, Crowsons AND Buttkickers and proper setup. This has to be close to nirvana on all the senses ;)

Very nice job, and enjoy watching movies :)
Thanks Nalleh!! Well not quite all, don't have 4K or ATMOS yet. But yes, so far it really does feel like nirvana on all the senses and something that I've dreamed about for quite some time. I guess dreams really do come true sometimes lol :)

Speaking of ATMOS, your setup is way cool!! I bet it sounds absolutely amazing (I'm sure the envelopment is ridiculous)!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,292 Posts
Thanks Nalleh!! Well not quite all, don't have 4K or ATMOS yet. But yes, so far it really does feel like nirvana on all the senses and something that I've dreamed about for quite some time. I guess dreams really do come true sometimes lol :)

Speaking of ATMOS, your setup is way cool!! I bet it sounds absolutely amazing (I'm sure the envelopment is ridiculous)!!
Atmos is the biggest step up in audio i have done ever! Recommended ! So yeah you still have some things to improve upon, but that’s ok.

4K is more of a hit and miss, as some of the UHD’s are spectacular, and others are meh... then again bluray can be incredible good picture wise, so it is not all black and white. But now most UHD’s get the Atmos treatment, so it is a must ;)


Thanks, i am rather happy with my setup too, and it is also constantly evolving, but it is really cool sit down and watch a good UHD with Atmos and awsome ULF, and you just find yourself smiling trough the movie, then all the work is truly worth it ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: biga6761 and SBuger

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
if ya got a big budget, go check out chairs at tema.

https://www.temafurniture.com/living-room/recliners.html
Hey Torii! Yeah no kidding huh, wow those chairs anent cheap, but I'll bet they are super comfortable and supportive. Mounting some Buttkickers on them might prove to be a bit challenging though. The Crowsons, they could just go under the supporting legs/frame pretty easy I'll bet.

Probably a little rich for my blood. I need three seats and the Pembrokes or Sanoma's are pushing it at $2,300 - 2,700. Plus I'll need more BK's and MA's for those as well. I have a feeling I'll be saving for a while longer before I get'm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Atmos is the biggest step up in audio i have done ever! Recommended ! So yeah you still have some things to improve upon, but that’s ok.

4K is more of a hit and miss, as some of the UHD’s are spectacular, and others are meh... then again bluray can be incredible good picture wise, so it is not all black and white. But now most UHD’s get the Atmos treatment, so it is a must ;)


Thanks, i am rather happy with my setup too, and it is also constantly evolving, but it is really cool sit down and watch a good UHD with Atmos and awsome ULF, and you just find yourself smiling trough the movie, then all the work is truly worth it ;)
Cool! And yeah I hear ya about the setup constantly evolving, but great to sit down and get totally immersed in a movie. It's worth it.

Yeah I've heard great things from quite a few folks around here about how good Atmos is. But that'll be a ways out since I probably need more chairs first plus those extra BK's and MAs to go with them. Oh well I guess, something to look forward to :)
 
1 - 20 of 444 Posts
Top