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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Currently the Espn signal i get is 720p and is horrible quality during basketball games. Will a scaler or a noise reduction device like a flea help me the most with getting the best out of a crappy ESPN 720p source? Also will a scaler help my picture out quite a bit since it will give me the additional 300 lines to help clear/clean my picture up.


Thanks

P
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms20003 /forum/post/18252103


Currently the Espn signal i get is 720p and is horrible quality during basketball games. Will a scaler or a noise reduction device like a flea help me the most with getting the best out of a crappy ESPN 720p source? Also will a scaler help my picture out quite a bit since it will give me the additional 300 lines to help clear/clean my picture up.


Thanks

P

Which projector? The built-in scaling capability varies greatly.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms20003 /forum/post/18252245


w6000

Ah. I can't comment on that one. Don't know nuthin'. I'd think it's scaling capabilities should be pretty decent, though. Other members will know more.
 

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You have a very good projector there that has the Silicon Optix HQV processor...a very good scaler indeed. Not many pj's can match it really. I have a Pro8100 with a slightly better version of the HGV processor and it is exceptional with 480/720 material.


Here's a review from another forum, about two thirds of the way down under Video Processing, it summarizes the capabilities. http://www.avforums.com/reviews/BenQ...or-Review.html


You mention the ESPN channel is "crappy". Unfortunately, crap in=crap out...
 

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I don't get it. ESPN HD is quality channel. 720p / 1080i for broadcast was debated in length the past few years, but I think everyone would agree that neither would give you a "crappy" picture. It is HD and it should blow away anything non-HD.


So my question is - how are your receiving this? Cable / Satellite? Is all the HD that you receive that bad? If so there is a problem with your delivery company. If it is only the ESPN channel well then there is a problem somewhere else - it is not with ESPN......


I guess my point is - first figure out why it is crappy........ not fantastic as bluray - sure that comment I would have understood. Crappy - sorry don't get it and I would say some major improvement should be possible before considering minor improvements via an external scaler
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry for not clarifying. It is a cable signal. it looks great on my LCD. Other channels typically 1080i like TNT looks great.
 

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OK. Here is what is going on maybe. ESPN native is 720p. Does your box put out native or does it put out only one user selectable resolution such as 1080i with the cheap poor quality scaler built into the box changing that nice ESPN 720p signal to 1080i. This would explain why native 1080i signals coming out of the box look fine and those changed by the box from 720p to 1080i look bad. My FIOS box will omly output one selected resolution and I continually go into the bqx set up menu and change between 720p and 1080i to match the channel`s native. I then use a high quality video processor to scale 720p or 1080i to 1080p for my projector. Of one could use the scaler in the projector, Point is the scalers in set top boxes tend to be not so good.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms20003 /forum/post/18253478


Sorry for not clarifying. It is a cable signal. it looks great on my LCD. Other channels typically 1080i like TNT looks great.

You are not alone. I'm a huge Lakers fan and their games from my Charter cable feed consistently look outstanding and clean from Fox Sports West at home and KCAL 9 on the road. TNT also consistently looks tremendous, especially from Staples where they seem to do it best of anyone.


ESPN on the other hand has much more noise and artifacts on virtually every basketball game pro or college I check out they are covering. The parquet floor in Boston is a crawling mess typically when viewed on a very revealing projected setup. I have a theory they cover so many events that they probably are using less than current, high quality S.O.T.A. cameras on many of them. You can often see the difference between cameras even at the same sporting event, not just on ESPN. Maybe even less than the best in the trucks outside doing the uplinking. But yes I agree totally with you and remark to friends all the time about it.


Should add that I'm feeding RS25 from an Edge at 1080 60P so the 720P aspect from ESPN should not account for that. Other 720P acquisitioned feeds look fine.
 

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You guys are seeing deinterlacing artifacts somewhere in the broadcast to set top box chain. If ESPN is capturing the broadcast in 720p (which may not be the case) and is broadcasting it in 720p, and your set top box is outputting it in 720p (which may not be the case, check what it is set to) your projector might soften it a bit when scaling 720p to 1080p, that is it. If ESP is picking up an arena HD feed in say 1080i, it will be deinterlacing it ans saling it down to 720p and the 720p feed will have artifacts contained in it. Which because they are part of the broadcast signal, can not be eliminated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF /forum/post/18254958


You are not alone. I'm a huge Lakers fan and their games from my Charter cable feed consistently look outstanding and clean from Fox Sports West at home and KCAL 9 on the road. TNT also consistently looks tremendous, especially from Staples where they seem to do it best of anyone.


ESPN on the other hand has much more noise and artifacts on virtually every basketball game pro or college I check out they are covering. The parquet floor in Boston is a crawling mess typically when viewed on a very revealing projected setup. I have a theory they cover so many events that they probably are using less than current, high quality S.O.T.A. cameras on many of them. You can often see the difference between cameras even at the same sporting event, not just on ESPN. Maybe even less than the best in the trucks outside doing the uplinking. But yes I agree totally with you and remark to friends all the time about it.


Should add that I'm feeding RS25 from an Edge at 1080 60P so the 720P aspect from ESPN should not account for that. Other 720P acquisitioned feeds look fine.

I completely agree 100%. I notice the different camera's quality as well depending on the game.


Can i get a clarification when you say "I'm feeding RS25 from an Edge at 1080 60P so the 720P aspect from ESPN should not account for that"? Are you saying that a scaler won't do me any good because you are currently using one and it hasn't helped your picture on ESPN? Or has it only helped slightly? I assume your stating that I really need a noise reducer if I want to help my ESPN station look better. Overall how impressed are you regarding your scaler. Is it worth the $500 you spent on it for your setup?


Thanks,

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^^^

No, more that I think it is ESPN problem. Aren't ABC and Fox still doing 720P acquisition for sports? Honest question. I thought so but am not sure. Anyway I don't see the same crappy signal coming from them most of the time like ESPN. And my cable box is always set to 1080i for those as well.


Yes I like the Edge a lot!! Wow are they going for $500 now? I paid $600 on a deal at the time.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab /forum/post/18253308


I don't get it. ESPN HD is quality channel. 720p / 1080i for broadcast was debated in length the past few years, but I think everyone would agree that neither would give you a "crappy" picture. It is HD and it should blow away anything non-HD.


So my question is - how are your receiving this? Cable / Satellite? Is all the HD that you receive that bad? If so there is a problem with your delivery company. If it is only the ESPN channel well then there is a problem somewhere else - it is not with ESPN......


I guess my point is - first figure out why it is crappy........ not fantastic as bluray - sure that comment I would have understood. Crappy - sorry don't get it and I would say some major improvement should be possible before considering minor improvements via an external scaler

Maybe ESPN for some reason just does not do "cable" well. I have a friend at work also with a projection system with Time Warner cable (I have Charter) We both marvel how good the clean telecasts look on our systems. ESPN consistently on its basketball coverage college and pro is noisy and artifacty as hell and frequently oversaturated in the reds. It's not our systems. Sorry.
 

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I know i spoke to you already, but just to be a bit clear, I asked in the satellite forum if a scaler would help, and I forget who discussed it, but he was mod of that forum with many years experience and simply said no.


In the digital realm scaling will do very little when tv stations are already starving bit rates. The benqs have good deinterlacing, so I cant imagine any issues with it.


Also mentioned the benq is very noisey, so its not deinterlacing artifacts or I would be very surprised, 1080p/24 blue ray discs as you know also look noisey.


Lcd might hide it a bit more because its so much smaller you will have to get close and look at it lcd are also a bit better for noise from what i have heard. My 50 inch plasma looks cleaner, until you get closer to compensate for the small screen. Does your lcd also have some noise reduction built in and enabled. I know the new panasonic g15 plasmas look really clean with noise reduction on light.


I just really dont think a scaler is going to do much, unless your set top box scaler is absolutely awful.


Put the output to 720p of the set box, and give it a try, tell us if you see a difference although i dont think you will really.
 

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It may have been said, but ESPN doesn't always broadcast in HD, even on their HD channel. I wonder if you are seeing standard def when you were viewing....
 
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