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Discussion Starter #1
Stewart (and I'm sure others) makes an electric screen (1.33:1) that has an electric mask that comes in from above to mask the screen to anything as small as 2.35. For this to work, however, the scaler would have to put the image at the BOTTOM of the projector's pixels, not vertically centered as most seem to do by default.


Does anyone know of a scaler that has this function? I'm especially interested in the Extron DVS406, Faroudja NRS, and the Digital LEEZA --- but if you know of another that supports this function, let me know.


Thanks!
 

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Usually with this kind of screen the bottom of the screen comes up as well as the masking coming down, so the image will stay central.


I've just been at an installation with exactly this set up - bit of a big screen though, about 4.5m wide !
 

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Hi,


I am not sure what other scalers support this (I'm sure one of the great AVSFORUM guys will chime in on this...) but I know that the TAW ROCK+ supports top-alignment and bottom-alignment with any aspect ratio. For more information about this feature, you can read the online ROCK+ manual.


This means you can have a top-only-masking or bottom-only-masking screen system. You can use a 4:3 screen, 16:9 screen, or even a custom aspect ratio screen, and apply top masking or bottom masking to it. Masking can be applied to any one edge, all 3 other edges remain stationary.
 

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Wth the Extron Product you can position it anywhere on screen from top to bottom. THe positioning controls allow it to be moved anywhere on a single pixel by pixel basis.
 

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Dizzman, can it switch from 2.00:1 bottom-aligned to 2.35:1 bottom-aligned (or any other bottom-aligned aspect ratio) using just two button presses?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mark,


I didn't realize this feature was used for this application --- I understood it was more of a centering feature.


However, having said that, the DVS supports three (3) presets pet input... for my purposes that's good enough for one button access because it'll be integrated with a crestron system.
 

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On the extron box you only need one button press. YOu can save a preset that encompasses ALL switcher settings. At least all image and position/size settings. It will toggle between the three presets per input.
 

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It turns out i was a little mistaken on my description of a preset on the Extron Box. I checked in the manual and it turns out that a preset ONLY stores Size and positioning information. But there are three memories for that on each input except for number 1.


dloftis...

I seem to recall that you had an extron box, Have you had time to run it through its paces? how did it seem.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I actually have two System 7SC's used for videoconferencing on large screens... but I don't have much chance to do anything with them in the HT realm.


I have played a bit with the size and position knobs, but all the sources I have are 4:3 as is the projector ---- and turning those knobs all the way in one direction or another doesn't shift the image a whole heck of a lot.


Even if these adjustments DO shift/size the image enough, I'd be very nervous using them for aspect ratio controls. How do I really know if I've nailed a 1.33:1 image, or if I've distorted it a litte into a 1.4:1 image?


IMHO, there are two reasons I'm no longer really considering an Extron scaler... 1> No DVI output (on the models I can afford anyway) and 2> The aspect ratio controls are just not that easy to deal with.
 

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Chec out the DVS 406 have seen t and the sizing and positioning controls are totally different.


Also, i keep getting in trouble when i talk about this but... I have tested allot of devices with DVI in against the properly setup analog input and... It is extremely difficult to tell the difference. I had a projector setup yesterday and was doing an A/B with the DV I/Analog on my computer and a group of 20 people could not all agree on which was which in a blind test. With the challenges of dealing with the DVI signal (switching from and to it, Distance limitations, What do you do when you have a set top box with DVI and a scaler with DVI) I really tell people to figure out if it is going to improve things for their application and most importantly their projector. An assumption that DVI is the universal Cure all is totally wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK, just point me to the box (NOT the Teranex) that can do everything for $5K and I'll buy it ;)


Considering my main 3 preferences, the DVS 406, Leeza, and DUNE, I have two big decisions to make.


1> Is DVI a must-have? If so, it must be a Leeza.

2> Is HDTV scaling a must-have? If so, it must be a Dune.


If the answer to both is no, any of the three will accomplish what I really need. If the answer to one of them is yes, it defines which scaler I buy. If the answer to both is yes, I'm screwed.


;)


Thanks for the input.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Also, can you elaborate a little on just how the controls are "different"?


Will it handle anamorphic lenses? Specifically in regards to 4:3 sources being squeezed to project correctly on an anamorphic system?


Thanks
 

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Hi,


DVI and HDTV scaling are certainly also buying considerations. (The ROCK+ is also upgradeable to DVI in the future, although we currently don't offer DVI)


However, you need to keep aspect ratio control as a consideration. It depends on how much aspect ratio control flexibility you need: ROCK+ can do any video material aspect ratio on any custom aspect ratio screen, through any anamorphic lens stretch factor(Including 4:3 without needing to remove the lens), and even when using top-only masking or bottom-only masking on top of all of this.
 

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As far as the controls go, there is a button on the front panel marked size... then one knob is horizontal sizing, the other is vertical. THere is also a know marked as Position... same thing. And the range is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than the system 7. They are shipping and Extron allows dealers to get a unit on demo for people to look at.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
We're way off-topic for the thread here, but ---


I mentioned a question about the anamorphic support on the DVS 406. I'm aware that several others handle all sources projected through the anamorphic lens quite nicely.


I'd really like to know if and how the Extron handles anamorphic systems... particularly when feeding it a 4:3 source (satellite, VHS, computer, etc...)


Thanks!
 

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Essentially, the extron allows you to take a 4:3 source in and squish it. then remember how much you squished it. Either Horizontally or vertically.


As far as Scaling HD goes, there are other products from extron that do that as well. Some of them may have allot more features than you need... or you may want. Also on another note... With all the talk of DVI you might think of another option. Given the choice between a DVI out and an SDI in... would DEFINITELY go for the SDI in. I feel that the improvements are far better.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My short list right now,


DVS 406

Leeza

Dune


That's the order of cost... they all have SDI in, the Leeza adds DVI out, and the Dune scales HD but drops the DVI out.


The thing with DVI is that my projector will be at least 25-30 feet (cable distance) from the scaler... and I don't really think I'll gain enough quality to justify the expense of a DVI extender. (I've seen a couple for ~$300, not sure of quality --- The extron, I believe, is in the $2,500 range.)


As I see it, the only thing I really loose going with the DVS instead of the Dune is the HD scaling... and I'm trying not to make decisions based on HD with the potential changes in the near future.
 

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"...As I see it, the only thing I really loose going with the DVS instead of the Dune is the HD scaling... and I'm trying not to make decisions based on HD with the potential changes in the near future."


dloftis, what is the different between the Dune and the 406 regarding HD, what would you like to do with HD and the 406?

Maybe I can try it. I have the 406 with a Barco 1209 and 4dtv HDTV.

Last night I made AB test between Faroudja 5000 and 406.

While watching the long and slow panning on Fly away home the 5000 shows a lot of microstuttering while the 406 runs without any stuttering or jumping.


Federico
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Federico,


The Vigatec Dune, like the Far 5K, can scale HD sources... ie, 1080i to 1080p scaling. Or, since I'm looking at digital, it can scale 1080i or 720p up to 1365x1024. The Extron only transcodes the HD signal, doesn't scale it at all.
 
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