[aquaphile]

so im not sure if anyone else has seen these, but the best example i can produce right now is the Totem Beak



linkage:
http://www.totemacoustic.eu/english/acc/beak_01.html



a personal experience of (i think) a similar product........

i was once at a dealer near me, and the place had a good selection of products (Focal, Bryston, Monitor Audio, Intergra, some insane brand of cable i dont recall), and when i walked in, one of the sales staff had a gentleman listening to some Focal bookshelfs (dont remember model, but they were fairly big), and it was a female jazz singer with only a bass and a piano. there was someone snapping in the recording to keep the beat. the song finished and the salesperson grabbed something that looked like a little metalic planet, and put it between the speaker, and his main argument was "listen to the snapping". he played the song again, and ill admit, it did sound different (although possibly a placebo affect). i will also say though this showroom was a big open warehouse type room, so i dont really think it was the best for acoustics. but i overheard him talking to the customer, and wanted over $1,000 each for those!

so my question is, are these little "tuning pods" as totem calls them, any legit? im pretty sure that guys full of garbage charging that much, but it also seemed like a bit of a "snake oil" type place, although not entirely. i believe the Beaks are more like $125. but still, is that worth it?


sorry for the small novel here, but im just really curious if A) these truly help imaging and all that good stuff (not even sure what theyre supposed to help?), and at what price point would you be like "no thanks"? is this a true element to room acoustics, or BS???


thanks ofr any and all replies, and thanks if you made it through this whole post!

 

[mcnarus]

Not only would I not pay a dime for such things, I would not pay a dime for a speaker made by someone who believed that crap.


If there are speaker resonances that a "beak" can tame, then what you've got is a really badly made speaker.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus /forum/post/16900881


Not only would I not pay a dime for such things, I would not pay a dime for a speaker made by someone who believed that crap.


If there are speaker resonances that a "beak" can tame, then what you've got is a really badly made speaker.

so true, there is a thread in the speaker forum that I just posted on talking about the Totem speakers.....BAD DESIGNS!!!


They actually believe speaker box resonance is a good thing

Each speaker costs $900 and weighs only 12 points....how can people buy this crap??

 

[aquaphile]

saw the speaker thread on Totems, which is actually what made me start this thread (didnt want to hijack the speaker post)


so basically a well made speaker wont need these items?

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile /forum/post/16900926


saw the speaker thread on Totems, which is actually what made me start this thread (didnt want to hijack the speaker post)


so basically a well made speaker wont need these items?

Right! You do not need cable lifters either

The best speakers built are the speaker with zero box resonance (that is hard to do but everyone wants very little box resonance). To actually say box resonance adds to the SQ is a complete joke. Resonance is simply distortion. We want less distortion in speakers not more.

 

[aquaphile]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16900959


Right! You do not need cable lifters either

The best speakers built are the speaker with zero box resonance (that is hard to do but everyone wants very little box resonance). To actually say box resonance adds to the SQ is a complete joke. Resonance is simply distortion. We want less distortion in speakers not more.

good to know! i guess i always thought the cable lifters had to do more with the electrical issues/aspect, not the SQ

 

[A9X-308]

I also think the beaks, like the coins on top of speakers is a lot of crap, but will accept good measurements in reply if someone wants to prove otherwise. A 20kg sandbag on the other hand.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile /forum/post/16901051


good to know! i guess i always thought the cable lifters had to do more with the electrical issues/aspect, not the SQ

There are no electrical issues wih cables near hard surfaces. More audiophile stupidity/mythology.

 

[mcnarus]



Quote:
i guess i always thought the cable lifters had to do more with the electrical issues/aspect, not the SQ

Nope, just the gullibility aspect.

 

[Ugly1]

"A 20kg sandbag on the other hand....."


haha! I use an empty beer bottle on top of my rack mounted computer case to damp the noisy vibrations of the top panel while loud low frequency bass is playing. It made a wonderful improvement in room response. And to think my cleaning lady keeps taking them off there and throwing them away. Oh well theres no shortage of of more where that came from. true story. lol

 

[aquaphile]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus /forum/post/16901434


Nope, just the gullibility aspect.

totally guilty

ill never deny that im here to learn



however, the items i saw at the dealer werent designed to be placed on the actual speaker, they were supposed to go around the room. is there any difference? i really wish i remembered what they were called, if only for the sake of discussion. please excuse my obvious lack of knowledge and proper terms, but i think the theory was "to obsorb echos or something like that"


theres no way i would EVER pay anythign near to what he was asking (i seriously think it was near $1300 each!), but is anyone even familiar with the product?

 

[A9X-308]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile /forum/post/16901848


thowever, the items i saw at the dealer werent designed to be placed on the actual speaker, they were supposed to go around the room. is there any difference?

Now your in the acoustics region, and there is a wealth of information out there on room treatment methods and the reasoning (and measurements!) behind why it is done. The fact that people who are paid to do this for a living and actually get results, ie professional Acoustic Engineers, don't use them. They are a gimmick. Room treatment is very worthwhile to pursue but it can be difficult, expensive and not domestically acceptable to get great results. So people make this sort of junk and hope that suggestion and gullibility will sell.


Some worthwhile reading would be F. Alton Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics
which is very easy to read and accessible - google books also have a good chunk of it available. Also have a squizz at Ethan Winer's site . This gives you an idea what the pro's do, and puts the BS into some perspective.

 

[scorrpio]

I could sell you a real special kit for a bargain price of $1,500. Includes a jar of special goat blood and an an instruction booklet. You draw the specific designs in goat blood on the speakers, and chant the incantation at midnight on the full moon. The goat blood bakes into the speaker wood, altering it harmonic-resistance properties which perceptibly improves separation, smoothing midtones to a broader spectrum while tightening the bass to perfection and slightly red-shifting the tweeter dissonance for a high that is truly hi-fi. As an added bonus, also includes a cantrip to exorcise all traces of oxygen from your Valhalla and Audioquest cables.

 

[mcnarus]

Look, you don't have to make this stuff up. There's actually a guy out there who will play weird noises over the phone to tune your audio system.


After you give him your credit card number, of course.

 

[Easyaspie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrpio /forum/post/16902387


As an added bonus, also includes a cantrip to exorcise all traces of oxygen from your Valhalla and Audioquest cables.

I've offered to out-gas cables for people in the vacuum chamber here at work.

I don't accept credit cards though.

 

[aquaphile]



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrpio /forum/post/16902387


I could sell you a real special kit for a bargain price of $1,500. Includes a jar of special goat blood and an an instruction booklet. You draw the specific designs in goat blood on the speakers, and chant the incantation at midnight on the full moon. The goat blood bakes into the speaker wood, altering it harmonic-resistance properties which perceptibly improves separation, smoothing midtones to a broader spectrum while tightening the bass to perfection and slightly red-shifting the tweeter dissonance for a high that is truly hi-fi. As an added bonus, also includes a cantrip to exorcise all traces of oxygen from your Valhalla and Audioquest cables.

hmmmm, seems a bit easier than calling up satan and selling my soul for "truly perfect" sound. have any contact info or a website?

 

[b.greenway]

Totem hawks rank somewhere (its been awhile) in my top ten best speakers I've heard in the last decade or so, they really are awesome.


That said, the beak is just a speaker spike.


--edit-- or something much weirder

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by b.greenway /forum/post/16902701


Totem hawks rank somewhere (its been awhile) in my top ten best speakers I've heard in the last decade or so, they really are awesome.


That said, the beak is just a speaker spike.

I have read many times that people like them....its the same way people like tube amps. Coloration isnt a bad thing according to Totem's design principles. Im against it myself but YMMV.


btw, what do you mean by Speaker spike? As the spike on the bottom of speakers?

 

[b.greenway]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16902735


I have read many times that people like them....its the same way people like tube amps. Coloration isnt a bad thing according to Totem's design principles. Im against it myself but YMMV.


btw, what do you mean by Speaker spike? As the spike on the bottom of speakers?

tbh I hadn't even fully read the description before I posted that. Yeah its even sillier now that I have.


And no, not really like the tube thing at all for me, I never bought into the warm/tube crap. Certain companies are prone to discuss lots of strange things when discussing their products, oddly enough I've heard the hawks at a local dealer and talked with the founder at a trade show the whole coloration thing never came up once.

 

[aquaphile]



Quote:
Originally Posted by b.greenway /forum/post/16902868


I've heard the hawks at a local dealer

well, even though its a bit OT, im just curious. what were your impressions?


ive yet to hear Totems myself, so i cant claim to have any personal experience. but as said before, up until recently, i have heard nothing but good things. and TBH, the good reviews/feedback/comments/etc far exceed the bad

 

[aquaphile]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16902735


btw, what do you mean by Speaker spike? As the spike on the bottom of speakers?

not sure what he meant by the term speaker spike. ive got a link on the top of the thread to Totem's page regarding their "Beaks", and a brief description of what they claim the product does



just for fun, here is a system on audiogon in which the system owner uses the beaks, in case anyone wanted to "see them in action". i was really just curious. if they were some sort of miracle, i might consider it, but also i figured if they were that great, wouldnt i have known about it long ago/seen it used other than with Totems?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...ztotem%20beaks