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Im running a scope screen and theres no way of talking me out of it



Using a digital projector its easy, just throw a anamorphic lens in front and your done. With CRT its a little more complicated.


I have chosen three methods within my system and would like your opinion which you think would be best and why.


System information. CRT is a 9" Barco 1209s. Im using a Lumagen VP.

Content, mostly 1080p 24 from BD and some 1080i.

Outputting 1080p 48 to the projector.


3 Options:


1. Performing one memory in the Barco at 1080p 48. Lumagen outputing 1080p 48.

Scope movies, set the lumagen to letterbox = 16x9 raster and compress the image height on the Barco down to 235:1. I would view 16x9 movies by hitting the the 4x3 button on the lumagen which would center a downscaled image in the proper ratio in the center of my scope screen without the need to create another memory in the Barco.


2. Feed the Barco 1080p 48. With the Lumagen in 16x9 mode scope movies have black bars top/bottom. Fill my screen with the scope movie in this fashion and blank the black bars. For 16x9 movies set up another memory

@ 1080p 48 and compress the image into a 16x9 inthe center of my screen.


3. Same as number 2 but reduce the resolution for 16x9 movies. Maybe 720P.

Put that into memory in my Lumagen so when I hit that memory the Barco goes into 16x9 mode. Im thinking of reducing the resolution for 16x9 thinking 1080p is to much to squeeze down down into such a small image on the surface of the tube. Am I right or wrong??


What would you do? Those running scope screens what are you doing ?
 

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I have mine set this way with the lumagen and a marquee 8000.


Set to 817p and use the 2.35 mode on the lumagen. it can be accesed i think by being in 16x9 mode and zooming 2 times. then size it using the size adjust controls on the lumagen. Then check the out put cofigiguration and see that the menu shows 2.35 aspect ratio. Now this will open up some bandwith and you could try 72hz since the extra black bars above and below wont be scaned by the crt's. then do the convergence in your projector to the lumagens grid pattern and save this memory for both the lummy and Barco. Craig rounds explains it better than I. here is a link to his post on Active area scaning:

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=737385



Athanasios
 

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I run a 2.40:1 screen with my G70, however I'm running a HTPC so I just do 1920x800p and do all the configuration with software.


I think with a scaler you would want to do something similar as 800p uses less BW than 1080p.


Erik
 

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When you guys use a scope setups what do you do about the menus. Those are most of the time those are 16:9. I assume the menus look sqashed..I guess thats not a big thing...who cares about the menus anyway.


Erik thats good thinking outside the box. The problem with PDVD Ultra is I don't think it allows AR control that would allow you to the strech the image to fit the scope screen.


Mike
 

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Mike,


I'm a little worried about that, when I start doing HD on my HTPC I may have to switch back to 1080p until the software matures a little more.


Right now I'm using Zoom Player and K-Media Player and it works very nicely.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger /forum/post/13016674


2. Feed the Barco 1080p 48. With the Lumagen in 16x9 mode scope movies have black bars top/bottom. Fill my screen with the scope movie in this fashion and blank the black bars. For 16x9 movies set up another memory

@ 1080p 48 and compress the image into a 16x9 inthe center of my screen.

Alan, this would be one option and you could leave the Lumagen in pass mode all the time with it. You might be pleased even more with a 1920 x 8xx pixel scope setting though. That way you can also get a 1:1 pixel mapping of the active picture area and you can also use the aspect ratio control of the Lumagen to access the menus which is IMO neater than to use the Barco remote for switching. And when you have set up these two you could even check how much of a difference it makes whether you use the 1440 x 8xx pixels in the scope setting as compared to the 1920 x 1080 pixels in the 16:9 setting on the projector.


Oliver
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs /forum/post/13018367


Alan, this would be one option and you could leave the Lumagen in pass mode all the time with it. You might be pleased even more with a 1920 x 8xx pixel scope setting though. That way you can also get a 1:1 pixel mapping of the active picture area and you can also use the aspect ratio control of the Lumagen to access the menus which is IMO neater than to use the Barco remote for switching. And when you have set up these two you could even check how much of a difference it makes whether you use the 1440 x 8xx pixels in the scope setting as compared to the 1920 x 1080 pixels in the 16:9 setting on the projector.


Oliver

Im about to give this a try, thanks!
 

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Alan, first of all glad to hear someone doing scope CRT, this is the only way for a true film theater at home, just my opinion of course



first of all you need to decide between 2.35 and 2.40, personally I picked 2.40:1, why? because 2.40 is a nice even 1920x800p (2.35:1 is 817.02), scope HD movies only have 800 lines of visible picture resolution, there is no point in wasting all that bandwidth on lines of info that isn't there



the way I would do this is to setup the Barco for 1920x800p from the Lumagen, I would also suggest 72hz instead of 48hz, with the lower resolution you are still making the Barco very happy even with 72hz, then as you said use the Barco and squeeze down to proper aspect ratio


the Lumagen has wonderful scaling, I would simply view 1.85:1 content via pillarboxing by hitting the aspect ratio button you mentioned


my vote is #1 all the way which is the way I do mine along with the 1920x800p resolution, my full setup is shown in my signature link and here is a screenshot or 2 of it in action, T2 french HD release:





-Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #9
800x1920 it is. This will be my evening project in between watching SB



Gary sweat screen caps. Nice theater
 

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that how I have it also 800 by 1920.


Athanasios
 

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Hi Alan, I'd go the way Gary recommends, this way you make full use of your raster for cinemascope content, which I assume is what you will mainly be watching
 

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My first caps. The real image looks great.

Harry Potter and the second shot is Rose McGowan in the movie Grind House.


 

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Wow Alan, that was fast - how do you like going to 16:9 and 1.85 within the 1920 x 800 ? I think it looks pretty good that way but for very detailed movies a separate 16:9 1920 x 1080 preset still looks better.


BTW: Dunno why but I like the second screenshot better
 

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very nice Alan



see there are some people who argue that why would you use a CRT with such a small raster, the fact is that setting up the CRT for a 2.40:1 image and viewing a 2.40:1 image in a 16:9 raster is the same amount of phosphor usage
no difference when viewing a 2.40:1 image, except you save bandwidth our way


Alan, I would recommend using as light a gray pillarbox bars on 1.85:1 content that you can stand(hopefully this can be set on the Lumagen like a DVOD unit), watching a 1.85:1 image on this type setup is hard on the tubes unless you use grayish bars to evenly light the entire 2.40:1 image, I cover them up with a masking system and they are gone


Alan, check out Timecop HD-DVD if you have it, one of the best anamorphic scope images I have ever seen, amazing stuff



-Gary
 

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Nice work Alan, what type/size scope screen are you using?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell /forum/post/13022799


very nice Alan



see there are some people who argue that why would you use a CRT with such a small raster, the fact is that setting up the CRT for a 2.40:1 image and viewing a 2.40:1 image in a 16:9 raster is the same amount of phosphor usage
no difference when viewing a 2.40:1 image, except you save bandwidth our way


Alan, I would recommend using as light a gray pillarbox bars on 1.85:1 content that you can stand(hopefully this can be set on the Lumagen like a DVOD unit), watching a 1.85:1 image on this type setup is hard on the tubes unless you use grayish bars to evenly light the entire 2.40:1 image, I cover them up with a masking system and they are gone


Alan, check out Timecop HD-DVD if you have it, one of the best anamorphic scope images I have ever seen, amazing stuff



-Gary

The problem with scope set (constant hight) with CRT is not the scope material whereas reduced rez with 1.78 & 1.85. But if it works for you all it matters.

A constant hight on CRT is equivalent to CH with digital and zooming rather than using anamorphic lens. There are disadvantages for sure.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM /forum/post/13023533


The problem with scope set (constant hight) with CRT is not the scope material whereas reduced rez with 1.78 & 1.85. But if it works for you all it matters.

A constant hight on CRT is equivalent to CH with digital and zooming rather than using anamorphic lens. There are disadvantages for sure.

It sounds like the method Alan's using involves downscaling 16:9 material to fit CIH inside 2.40.


With the digital and zoom method, you still get 1:1 pixel mapping on all material. No scaling is involved, so in terms of source resolution, there's no degradation at all.
 

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Quote:
The problem with PDVD Ultra is I don't think it allows AR control that would allow you to the strech the image to fit the scope screen.

PowerDVD doesn't, however the original AR control software, YXY, which predates both Theatertek and Zoom Player does and works just fine with PowerDVD.


I use PowerDVD with YXY for HD, but I still use Theatertek for DVD.


Alan, the major problem with CRT and CIH is that no matter how you set it up you will have uneven phospher wear and this will show up in your image sooner or later.


Over the years that I had my Runco (NEC) I had to replace the CRTS twice because of this issue.


Vern
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell /forum/post/13022799


Alan, I would recommend using as light a gray pillarbox bars on 1.85:1 content...

Does having the gray pillarbox bars on all the time have any noticeable impact on black level or contrast in low APL scenes? I just wonder if having some part of the tube illuminated constantly will elevate black levels (create haze) in dark scenes.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi Vern


You bring up a very good point. The tubes are 4x3 so running anything but 4x3 will show usage burn over any given period of time.

To reduce the risk of usage burn over time here is what I do. This is very important. I did this with all my CRTs years ago when running scope and put 6 to 10k hours on them with the tube showing no wear.


I set up a full raster memory using any scan rate, I use 1080i because its easy, you do not have to converge this but look in each gun and make sure its centered. I run this for 10 minutes to excite all the phosphor before running my move at the desired ratio. Run any content, preferably with daytime scenes. At times I also kick this in before shutting down the projector for a few minutes. In the past I have put thousands of hours on the tubes without any evident ware showing. This warm up period is a pain but if you want to preserve your tubes surface for the next person or if you deside to move to a different size screen in the future you will not have to retube the machine.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias /forum/post/13023761


PowerDVD doesn't, however the original AR control software, YXY, which predates both Theatertek and Zoom Player does and works just fine with PowerDVD.


I use PowerDVD with YXY for HD, but I still use Theatertek for DVD.


Alan, the major problem with CRT and CIH is that no matter how you set it up you will have uneven phospher wear and this will show up in your image sooner or later.


Over the years that I had my Runco (NEC) I had to replace the CRTS twice because of this issue.


Vern
 
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