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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was trying to sell my HC5500 to no avail, currently the projector is in a room where i cannot to easily control the lights and there is a lot of it. I have 2 sliding glass doors as well as several windows. Currently there is a 100" Elite Ezframe 100" with a 1.0. Someone locally is selling a 133" pulldown 16:9 with a 1.5 gain. If i were to implement some dark curtains (which i was using for a short time with the current setup before i took it down) and changed to the 1.5 gain screen would i be more pleased with my picture.


As it was, it was almost impossible to watch anything during the day, or even with one lamp on, I had to get the room to almost pitch black levels during the day which is somewhat inconvenient/unreasonable for a room like this (lower level family room)


Thanks guys.
 

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The increase in gain will help in some respects, but be advised that the gain will also work just the same magic with any ambient light that makes it onto the Screen surface.


Where you'll really notice any improvement with it (1.5 gain) is in the Dark / near Dark.
(....In actuality, you need a 1.3 gain "High Contrast" Gray surface....)


An effective lighting scheme can make an incredible difference. EyeBall spots. Shielded Lamp Shades. Anything that restricts the cones of light to within a specific area will allow you to enjoy the light coming off the Screen mo'bedder.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrmstrng /forum/post/19555781


So would you recommend me working harder on controlling the light by spending money on good blinds, shades etc, or switching screens and starting there?

The Lights / Light control is such an important part of the entire equation, it bears being made a priority.


Many advise too quickly to go "Gain" simply because it's something that to many seems to make sense. But unless your viewing content shown at the end of a narrow Tunnel, and the surrounding ambient light cannot intrude in at the sides, or worse, from directly behind, it's really not going to help image "quality"...only brighten further what is already bright areas within the image.


BTW, although it seems logical to some, I personally feel it's "not advisable" to look to a High Gain screen solution merely to compensate for a Dimming Bulb situation. Yes, when Bulbs cost 500.00 to replace, it can seem an effective route to consider....but unless your viewing situation demands the specific advantages of such a screen, opting in for "Bulb" reasons alone is misguided thinking.


A Balanced system is best...and High Gain is decidedly not balanced.


Contrast is King. The difference you see between the Lightest area on screen than the Darkest area is where it's all at. The wider the difference...the greater the contrast...the more Pop & Sizzle any image will show, regardless of brightness. Well...almost regardless. 2000 lumes showing a native 5000:1 CR is stupendous! However significant ambient / directed light can and will effectively denude the quality of even such an image.


Going with High Tech Retro-Reflective Gray screens can cost you more than the PJ by 2x. A HP in a Light controlled room with non-reflective Wall / Ceiling surfaces? a LOT less. An effectively done DIY Metallic Gray Screen? A real bargain.


All you really need to do is find the Balance between effective lighting control (...needs not mean "Blacking out"...) screen Gain/Color, and PJ light output / available Contrast.


A low Contrast PJ needs as much help in that department as it might/does as far as delivering adequate brightness "off screen", so don't fall into the trap of thinking a High Gain Screen cures all ills.


Lastly, a 133" screen @ 1.3 gain is only an increase in size...not brightness. The Gain is only allowing you to get that big...not bigger AND brighter.


1.3 gain at 110" WOULD be a significant difference. Combine that size screen with that level of Gain in a High Contrast Gray and Bub...you'll be the happiest of all.
 

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You didn't give us any info on projector placement, distance, seating arrangement/distance etc. First off, gota get rid of the light as you have been advised. Second, depending on some other factors, lamp age and output not excluded, you could possibly benefit from a Dalite HP screen. You would need to read the several major threads in the screen forum to figure out if it would be a good fit for you setup, or if you could adjust the setup to make it work to it's fullest potential. As mentioned, bigger the screen the dimmer the picture given the same projector light output.
 

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If you're stuck with that pj, I'd try decreasing the screen size as that pj is under average for brightness (an 85" screen would be noticeably brighter than your 100"), but for sure work on the light control first. You might also try bias lighting behind your screen. If you upgrade pjs, choose one with a bright "dynamic" mode like any of the Epsons from the past few years.


Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for all the posts guys, learning a lot of information. The projector was setup directly behind the sofa, with the projector at about 10'6 projecting a 100" image. If I were to upgrade screens to the larger 1.5 gain the projector would be moved back to around 16' to get the 133" image. This may just be a bad room for a PJ and it may be time to work harder on selling it and moving to a traditional TV. The ceilings are white, the walls are beige (not my house, not allowed to re-paint) I have some thinking to do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrmstrng /forum/post/19557295


Thanks for all the posts guys, learning a lot of information. The projector was setup directly behind the sofa, with the projector at about 10'6 projecting a 100" image. If I were to upgrade screens to the larger 1.5 gain the projector would be moved back to around 16' to get the 133" image. This may just be a bad room for a PJ and it may be time to work harder on selling it and moving to a traditional TV. The ceilings are white, the walls are beige (not my house, not allowed to re-paint) I have some thinking to do.

Nonsense! I can't let this deteriorate into a Direct TV choice!


PM me. I have "Da Bomb" Screen solution that will effectively work to negate most all the adverse effects your Room creates and let you move up to the 130"+ range to boot. Don't back track. Don't "settle". After you read my suggestion, you can decide when & where you want to post up.
 

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I have 3 suggestions for your consideration:


1. Control lighting. Install blackout shades and/or curtains over the windows so that you can control the light during the daytime. If you have a sliding glass door or windows along the wall behind the projector then these especially must be covered if there is any hope of using your system in the daytime regardless of what type of screen you are using. Keep any lamps in the room toward the sides of the room and away from the screen and not anywhere near the centerline of the room (the line from the center of the screen to the projector then on to the rear wall of the room.


2. Consider replacing the screen fabric in your existing Elite EZ Frame screen with the Elite Powergain fabric. This fabric has a gain of 1.8 and can be ordered from any Elite dealer. For the 100" size the replacement fabric may cost you only around $100 to $150. Don't go with a larger screen since that will only make the projected image dimmer (i.e., replace to add the screen gain but keep the size at 100 inches) and that is the opposite of what you need. If your were to totally replace the screen then take a close look at a Dalite screen using their "High Power" screen material but you will need to mount your projector just a little above eye level when seated (e.g., perhaps mounted just 4 ft. above the floor level) if you use this type of screen. If you can make such a projector position work for you then the DaLite High Power is good way to go. The least expensive DaLite screens offered with the High Power fabric are their manual pull-down Model B and Model C screens.


3. If you have a lot of hours (e.g., more than 1500 hours) of use on the lamp in your Mits 5500 projector consider replacing the lamp with a new one since lamps can lose 50% of their light output in the first 1000 to 2000 hours of use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/19557365


I have 3 suggestions for your consideration:


1. Control lighting. Install blackout shades and/or curtains over the windows so that you can control the light during the daytime. If you have a sliding glass door or windows along the wall behind the projector then these especially must be covered if there is any hope of using your system in the daytime regardless of what type of screen you are using. Keep any lamps in the room toward the sides of the room and away from the screen and not anywhere near the centerline of the room (the line from the center of the screen to the projector then on to the rear wall of the room.


2. Consider replacing the screen fabric in your existing Elite EZ Frame screen with the Elite Powergain fabric. This fabric has a gain of 1.8 and can be ordered from any Elite dealer. For the 100" size the replacement fabric may cost you only around $100 to $150. Don't go with a larger screen since that will only make the projected image dimmer (i.e., replace to add the screen gain but keep the size at 100 inches) and that is the opposite of what you need. If your were to totally replace the screen then take a close look at a Dalite screen using their "High Power" screen material but you will need to mount your projector just a little above eye level when seated (e.g., perhaps mounted just 4 ft. above the floor level) if you use this type of screen. If you can make such a projector position work for you then the DaLite High Power is good way to go. The least expensive DaLite screens offered with the High Power fabric are their manual pull-down Model B and Model C screens.


3. If you have a lot of hours (e.g., more than 1500 hours) of use on the lamp in your Mits 5500 projector consider replacing the lamp with a new one since lamps can lose 50% of their light output in the first 1000 to 2000 hours of use.



Thanks again for more info. I do have more than 1500, currently around 1800 hours since i dismantled my HT setup to sell it. But now i have another problem. Since I had planned on getting rid of the PJ I rearranged the basement, so now the only place to put the projector is on the back wall, which is around 16' meaning the 100" screen is going to have to go either way due to limited zoom.



And also, the reason i suggested moving up to a 133" 1.5 gain screen is because someone locally is selling the 133" of the exact model you suggested, the DaLite Model C 133" pull down for $150.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Also, referring to the above post, I thought the HC5500 bulbs were rated at something close to 4k hours in economy mode, or 2000 in regular mode. Right now that 1800 is all economy meaning 900 hours in regular mode. That seems far from ready to go, I'd be bummed throwing in the new bulb i have sitting around and seeing that it makes little to no difference.
 

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First, I have not read all the replies so this may be duplicate. First question...how many hours are on your projector? It is entirely possible your lamp is super dim due to high hours...in other words, replacing the lamp may help a lot.


In regards to your screen question...first thing to note is most gain ratings are exaggerated...while I don't know what brand the 1.5 is, more than likely it isn't that high. However let's assume it is...a 100" unity gain which you have is 29.6' square. A 133" is 52.4' square. If you take 52.4' and divide by 1.5, you get 34.9. What does that mean? Well simply put if you take the image you have now and blow it up to the 133" size, the gain (again assuming it is even correct) will NOT counter the increase in size. In other words, you will be worse than you are now.


That being said, gain is not the answer to ambient light (always). The enemy of front projection is ambient light...no matter what. Gray screens can help with that for sure, but they aren't a guarantee of the fix.


In truth, it sounds like you might need a gray screen and a new bulb...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/19559245


First, I have not read all the replies so this may be duplicate. First question...how many hours are on your projector? It is entirely possible your lamp is super dim due to high hours...in other words, replacing the lamp may help a lot.


In regards to your screen question...first thing to note is most gain ratings are exaggerated...while I don't know what brand the 1.5 is, more than likely it isn't that high. However let's assume it is...a 100" unity gain which you have is 29.6' square. A 133" is 52.4' square. If you take 52.4' and divide by 1.5, you get 34.9. What does that mean? Well simply put if you take the image you have now and blow it up to the 133" size, the gain (again assuming it is even correct) will NOT counter the increase in size. In other words, you will be worse than you are now.


That being said, gain is not the answer to ambient light (always). The enemy of front projection is ambient light...no matter what. Gray screens can help with that for sure, but they aren't a guarantee of the fix.


In truth, it sounds like you might need a gray screen and a new bulb...


1800 hours all in economy mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/19559629


I can guarantee that isn't helping. At 1800 hours...near end of realistic life, you are probably getting 1/3 to 1/2 the original light output AT BEST. May be worth considering a new lamp.

I have a lamp, brand new sealed in the box...if that's truly the case then i will consider using it, but it is still for sale on ebay for another week.


I cant imagine that almost the entire time i've used it is at that low level of brightness.


So i've read the light output that most PJ's claim is false, and now im guessing so is the lamp life?
 

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Well yes lamp life is typically going to be less than rating as those are specific test environments. But, that is not the point. Lamp dimming is a simple fact...within a few hundred hours you will have substantially lower light output. Lamp life rating doesn't factor that in.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrmstrng /forum/post/19557530


Thanks again for more info. I do have more than 1500, currently around 1800 hours since i dismantled my HT setup to sell it. But now i have another problem. Since I had planned on getting rid of the PJ I rearranged the basement, so now the only place to put the projector is on the back wall, which is around 16' meaning the 100" screen is going to have to go either way due to limited zoom.



And also, the reason i suggested moving up to a 133" 1.5 gain screen is because someone locally is selling the 133" of the exact model you suggested, the DaLite Model C 133" pull down for $150.

Actually I suggested a DaLite Model B or C but in a smaller size and with the "High Power" screen material (gain 2.4 or 2.8). But as myself and others have suggested above, controlling the ambient light the the #1 thing you should address.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/19559989


Actually I suggested a DaLite Model B or C but in a smaller size and with the "High Power" screen material (gain 2.4 or 2.8). But as myself and others have suggested above, controlling the ambient light the the #1 thing you should address.

I am going to:


address ambient light

see if i can find a high gain screen locally at close to no loss after selling my screen

replace bulb with the new one i have

calibrate with professional dvd.
 
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