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Screen Judder vs Poor 720p Resolution

908 Views 10 Replies 5 Participants Last post by rebe1, Dec 25, 2005

rebe1

Discussion Starter · Dec 21, 2005

Hi Everyone,

I have been trying to decide on which plasma panel to get for the longest time, and been flip flopping between the two last ones on my short list. Right now there's one item on each set that's bugging me, so I just want to know what you guys would rather live with.

1) Screen Judder. Would this affect sports programming, HDTV, or just DVD playback?

2) 720p source not resolving to 720p resolution (as confirmed by owners). I heard that setting this set to 1080i would get back *most* of the 720p resolution, but how would that affect sports programming where a progressive signal is supposed to be smoother? Also, I will be connecting an xbox360 to this panel as well which outputs 720p. It can output 1080i using its internal scaler, but I heard it sometimes causes slowdowns in games, so I would like to keep it at 720p.

Thanks!

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ClarkeBar

· #2 · Dec 21, 2005

Hello,

You didn't list the two contenders so it might be difficult to be of help other than to say that screen judder, however it is introduced, is usually only a problem if the amount of movement is noticeable with moving content rather than a still image. I get slight judder only when using 1080i upconversion with my Zenith 318 player but you cannot see it during DVD play...even in quiet, still scenes. When paused however, it does show up. This of course is strictly player related and not inherent in the panel.

I can only tell you my experience with #2: virtually every 720P source I have seen with HDTV programming through my local Comcast or OTA is not up to snuff to 1080i. I am only viewing on a 480P EDTV plasma panel but the difference in display appearance between the 2 HD resolutions is easy to discern. It is true that 720P is thought to be better for sports but I have seen more Mosquito noise and other motion artifacts watching sports on 720P channels than on 1080i ones. Your mileage may vary of course and much depends on transmission and receiving

equipment, signal & provider. Actually it is not uncommon to purposefully use different resolution settings for different source material, such as the XBox, DVD, HDTV etc. You need to experiment.

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rebe1

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 22, 2005

Thanks. I didn't want to incite another Panasonic vs Pioneer thread, but I am down to choosing between the Pansonic Commercial 50" and the Pioneer 5060HD, and the items that bug me on both systems, which is a) Pansonic cannot resolve 720p signals past DVD quality, or 1080i to 720p resolution (a few Panasonic owners confirmed that 720p signals are a very soft compared to 1080i, and b) the Pioneer judder issue.

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ClarkeBar

· #4 · Dec 23, 2005

I understand. But now that the cat's out of the bag you may expect more replies.

Returning to 720P, again I have generally found it to be much less satisfactory but some people swear by it, many of them Panny owners. The issue you raise is but one of many reasons why I went with ED for the time being. The Gary Merson article on resolution uncertainties is simply the latest buzz on this very long and winding HD road we're traveling.

If you wouldn't mind...what exactly is the judder issue with the Pio?

Whatever that might be, with only these two sets in mind, I would save the extra money and go with the Panny. To my eye color is truer and more pleasing on Pio but black is where Panny rules and Black level IMHO is simply more critical to overall enjoyment.

Good Luck deciding.

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rebe1

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 23, 2005

Yeah, even at the B&M stores, I've quickly gotten the Panasonic to show true to life colours as compared to the extra pop of the Pioneers. I think can adjust to liking either.

As for the screen judder... its a bit of deinterlacing artifact that results in uneven movement when the camera slowly pans horizontally across a scene.

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overtime

· #6 · Dec 23, 2005

Quote:

As for the screen judder... its a bit of deinterlacing artifact that results in uneven movement when the camera slowly pans horizontally across a scene.

This is almost a complete non-issue (5050HD owner here). Its so rare that I notice it and so minor when I do that I think its largely a panabot concoction.

As a comcast subscriber I find 720p to be superior to 1080i. Oh, and the X360 looks delicious

.

overtime

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rebe1

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 24, 2005

Is the Pioneer judder just relegated to DVD viewing?

I guess another option if I decide to go with the Panasonic is that I can use the VGA cables for the Xbox 360 to achieve 1366x768 resolution. That way I can run everything else at 1080i and only be losing a little bit of information. If I do that, the only thing left for me to consider between the Pioneer and Panasonic is native rate inputs (I think Pioneer does it through VGA, and Panasonic (commercial) can do it via a DVI blade).

Decisions, decisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by overtime
This is almost a complete non-issue (5050HD owner here). Its so rare that I notice it and so minor when I do that I think its largely a panabot concoction.

As a comcast subscriber I find 720p to be superior to 1080i. Oh, and the X360 looks delicious

.

overtime

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D-Nice

· #8 · Dec 24, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebe1
Is the Pioneer judder just relegated to DVD viewing?

There are very few movies that will show judder on the Pioneer. It is so rare that it is a moot point.

You have to also remember that judder is cause by poor encoding.

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gnomey

· #9 · Dec 24, 2005

Why choose between the two problems? Get the Pioneer PDP-505CMX and a Key Digital HD Xplorer input card. This combo should cost about the same as the 60HD, but you won't get the included speakers, stand, and tuner of the 60HD.

Cool tip - If you get a commercial plasma, look into the Premier Mounts Universal Plasma Stands. They come in black, silver, and clear acrylic. For the Pioneer CMX, the black base won't match the frame, so you'll want to get the clear one. It's more than the black or silver, but still less than the Pioneer stand.

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rebe1

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 25, 2005

If that's the case, I won't be too concerned about it at all. I guess this means it does not exist on HD material? Thanks for the tip!

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Nice
There are very few movies that will show judder on the Pioneer. It is so rare that it is a moot point.

You have to also remember that judder is cause by poor encoding.

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rebe1

Discussion Starter · #11 · Dec 25, 2005

Hmm, this seems like it will get me by the problem of not having a per pixel digital feed from my HTPC on the Pioneer consumer models... Guess I have some more research to do

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnomey
Why choose between the two problems? Get the Pioneer PDP-505CMX and a Key Digital HD Xplorer input card. This combo should cost about the same as the 60HD, but you won't get the included speakers, stand, and tuner of the 60HD.

Cool tip - If you get a commercial plasma, look into the Premier Mounts Universal Plasma Stands. They come in black, silver, and clear acrylic. For the Pioneer CMX, the black base won't match the frame, so you'll want to get the clear one. It's more than the black or silver, but still less than the Pioneer stand.

Save

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