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Discussion Starter #1
I am of the common opinion that you can only learn a couple of things about a screen or display device by looking at screenshots.


However, from these snaps I think the deep blacks, bright color detail and three dimensional feel you can achieve with a Carada High Contrast screen are apparent.


Any focus error, motion blur or inaccurate exposure is due to the thick narly fingers of the camera operator. The actual image is far superior to what you see here.


I am projecting on an 80" Carada High Contrast via an Sanyo PLV-Z2 with the lamp set on low and the iris open.


The basketball shots are ESPN HD and the others are from DVDs including the obligatory Monsters Inc. shots.
 

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80 wide or 80 diagonal? Either way great pics and good whites. Makes me feel better about going with a lower gain screen.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Quote:
Originally posted by CalypsoCowboy
80 wide or 80 diagonal? Either way great pics and good whites. Makes me feel better about going with a lower gain screen.
It's an 80" diagonal screen. I find the high gain screens sometimes kick back too much light for my viewing and that along with the better contrast from the lower gain made it a good choice for me.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Here's a comparision shot that you can chew on.


Screen is Behr Silver Metallic (Faux Paint) paint over matching grey primer (on a wall) with a 3 layer Top Coat of MississippiMud. Slightly larger than 80" it comes in at 116' yet performs like a smaller screen.


PJ is a Z2. 800 lumens w/1400:1 Cr (the same PJ ya know.....)

Samsung DVD w/DVI out. No addititional processing.



MississippiMud Mix


1 quart Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling" paint (Latex)

2 quarts Behr White Opal Perlescence (Faux Paint)

1 quart Behr Deep Base 'flat latex' (1300)

1/96 0z of red oxide


Shake well and apply


The Screen Shot says it all.


You didn't need a high contrast screen with the Z2. It's crushing your whites, AND your colors.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Not trying to be a poop, show off, or belittle your choice in screens. your obviously a happy camper.


Just trying to make a point, and you stepped in with the same PJ, but are using a high contrast screen where none is needed.


Carada is the ONE Screen Mfg that does accept returns, ya know?;) :p :D :cool:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Here's a comparision shot that you can chew on.
What gain is your screen?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Here's a comparision shot that you can chew on.


Screen is Behr Silver Metallic (Faux Paint) paint over matching grey primer (on a wall) with a 3 layer Top Coat of MississippiMud. Slightly larger than 80" it comes in at 116' yet performs like a smaller screen.


PJ is a Z2. 800 lumens w/1400:1 Cr (the same PJ ya know.....)

Samsung DVD w/DVI out. No addititional processing.



MississippiMud Mix


1 quart Behr Ultra Pure White Flat "Ceiling" paint (Latex)

2 quarts Behr White Opal Perlescence (Faux Paint)

1 quart Behr Deep Base 'flat latex' (1300)

1/96 0z of red oxide


Shake well and apply


The Screen Shot says it all.


You didn't need a high contrast screen with the Z2. It's crushing your whites, AND your colors.
As far as I know a high contrast sceen would do nothing to crush whites. If anything you are going to get crushed whites on a high gain screen, not low. Also, the Z2's real contrast ratio is no where near 1300:1 or 1400:1 as you have it spec'ed. The high contrast sceen will help lower the level of gray to a more convincing black. The Z2 on a normal sized screen is still plenty bright and can tolerate this kind of screen treatment, and so can its colors. The high contrast screen will also go a long way in hiding various screen arifacts such as VB/FPN and the flicker "scanline" artifact. I am about to start shooting my Z2 onto a small 77" diagonal 16:9 0.8 gain screen, and I cannot wait.
 

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it isn't crushing his colours.


second, I see you are once again up to posting a screenshot from a totally different setup (dvd player)/camera and trying to make some conclusion from it. At least this time your screenshot is using the same projector!!!! you've made a small baby step on the way to providing something that has comparative value.


I do agree that his highlight details seem to be getting crushed. a lowering of the contrast setting or service menu setting #16 should fix that. I don't agree that it is his screen that is causing that but probably is useless to argue that point with you or CMRA.
 

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Quote:
The Screen Shot says it all.
Uh-huh.


The two screenshots in question were taken by two different cameras. Two different DVD players were used. Two DIFFERENT projectors were used (even if their user settings were all matched, they would still not measure out identically with respect to color temp and lumen output). The wall/ceiling/floor colors of the two rooms are presumably different. Lee’s shots are “real world†shots, i.e. they show the screen’s frame, the wall, the center channel speaker, etc. Your shots have no frame of reference to reality whatsoever.

Quote:
Slightly larger than 80" it comes in at 116' yet performs like a smaller screen.
I have the same question bedo has. What is the gain of your MiracleMud Mix? For your image to be as bright as the one Lee is getting, the gain would have to be 1.74. That kind of gain, and perfect black levels too? Wow, I’m more impressed by the minute. Maybe we should license this incredible formula from you. Oh but I forgot, you don’t get any financial gain from all these “points†you keep making. You HAVE mentioned that you can barely keep up with all the orders from customers wanting you to build them a screen based on your miracle formulas, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China, right?

Quote:
Just trying to make a point, and you stepped in with the same PJ, but are using a high contrast screen where none is needed.
The “need†for black levels is just as much a matter of taste as is the “need†for brightness. Lee made it clear that he preferred the image he’s getting over higher gain screens. Don’t you think it’s a bit arrogant to step in and tell him he doesn’t “need†a high contrast screen? Someone mentioned the other day that your ego seems to be expanding with every post. Are you out to prove them right?


David Giles
 

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What I noticed most is the lack of vertical bands. It looks great to me. I guess if your not watching the movie "the fog" or a blank grey screen it's probably really not an issue. IMHO
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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First, to leedees,


I meant no disrespect or was I trying to belittle your choice. The quality of the shot was lacking a lot, and if you were to credit / blame the screen, then you needed a seperate point of reference. That others choose not to accept as much is just that, thier choice. Your choices are no different. If more would speak freely, plainly, and with respect, AVS would be far more benifical than it already is.



Quote:
Originally posted by David Giles
Uh-huh.


The two screenshots in question were taken by two different cameras. Two different DVD players were used. Two DIFFERENT projectors were used (even if their user settings were all matched, they would still not measure out Your shots have no frame of reference to reality whatsoever.


>>>>>>



I have the same question bedo has. What is the gain of your Miracle Mud Mix? For your image to be as bright as the one Lee is getting, the gain would have to be 1.74. That kind of gain, and perfect black levels too? Wow, I’m more impressed by the minute. Maybe we should license this incredible formula from you. Oh but I forgot, you don’t get any financial gain from all these “points†you keep making. You HAVE mentioned that you can barely keep up with all the orders from customers wanting you to build them a screen based on your miracle formulas, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China, right?


>>



The “need†for black levels is just as much a matter of taste as is the “need†for brightness. Lee made it clear that he preferred the image he’s getting over higher gain screens. Don’t you think it’s a bit arrogant to step in and tell him he doesn’t “need†a high contrast screen? Someone mentioned the other day that your ego seems to be expanding with every post. Are you out to prove them right?

 

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Quote:
You didn't need a high contrast screen with the Z2. It's crushing your whites, AND your colors.
Huh?


His whites may be getting crushed, but it is not the screen doing it. How can you even suggest such a thing?


Oh yes, I forgot, the only thing that can cause crushed whites is the screen, right?


You don't think it could be the simplest of all things and the one thing that many people do all the time, setting the contrast too high? It's extremely easy to crush whites on digital pjs if not set up properly. It's also more likely that the camera is causing the crushed whites than the screen.


To the original poster. If you are, in fact, seeing crushed whites like in your picture, try calibrating with either Avia or Video Essentials to get your blacks and whites set correctly. Even the THX Optimizer would be better than nothing.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally posted by David777
Huh?


His whites may be getting crushed, but it is not the screen doing it. How can you even suggest such a thing?


Oh yes, I forgot, the only thing that can cause crushed whites is the screen, right?
I never said such. But taking into account that ANYONE could and would see such manifestations if they were before their eyes, it's not a far stretch to reason that they would indeed compensate for them. But often, it does fall to the PJ owner to decide what looks best & right for himself, not others. Posting a picture does leave one's results and taste up for scrutiny though. My comments seemed justified, but can just as easily be misconstrued, as the previous post seem to indicate


Quote:


You don't think it could be the simplest of all things and the one thing that many people do all the time, setting the contrast too high? It's extremely easy to crush whites on digital pjs if not set up properly. It's also more likely that the camera is causing the crushed whites than the screen.
Both could very well be the case, but I doubt it. I spent the first year of my doing PJ systems featuring 2000+ lumen LCD PJs that REQUIRED high contrast screens, and became quite familiar with them, their properties and peculiarities. I also saw how they affected color correctness and white levels especially. Would that the 20-HD had a Cr ratio as high as a Z2!

Quote:
To the original poster. If you are, in fact, seeing crushed whites like in your picture, try calibrating with either Avia or Video Essentials to get your blacks and whites set correctly. Even the THX Optimizer would be better than nothing.
Good advice for those who need it. And essential when starting out with a screen surface designed specifically to augment contrast. It's a fact that cannot be disputed or denied by anyone, that ANY HC screen WILL affect the end result in more ways than just enhancing contrast. Why bringing this up causes such distress only serves to highlight how few seem to realize it. I guess the Mfg. have done a good job keeping the negative aspects under wraps. Why, when education would help steer many more to them once informed. Those who buy into the HC genre must use calibration to regain what HC screens take away.


High Gain screens face the same issues, only reversed. It may peeve more than a few to consider something as simple as the DIY solutions we have been working on to level the playing field as being so good at what they do, but that's the breaks. It's not the Mfgs that we do it for anyway. Most others appreciate the motive behind it all. others are simply aghast at the whole idea, or resentful of the attention it's getting.


I care not one whit for the attention, nor any real credit. Yes, I created the concept to help the "Video" end of what I do for my Clients because I was seeing results I knew could be improved upon. By offering the end results to anybody/everybody on this Forum, it was/is still a way of showing appreciation for similar help and assistance sent my way. Plus, that's supposed to be the spirit behind the Forum. How others can twist it around to make it a selfish, self-centered act is pretty incredible, but no more so I guess than what should be expected when so many different people frequent AVS. If my delivery is to blame...., well chalk it up to enthusiasium, and excitement that hard work and effort paid off.


You can't make a Silk Purse out of a Sow's ear, and Screen Shots can't be as good as the ones we are posting without the screen being of no small account.


Peace.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan


You can't make a Silk Purse out of a Sow's ear, and Screen Shots can't be as good as the ones we are posting without the screen being of no small account.


Peace.
Just so we're clear. I never said anything about your screen solutions. I would like them to be superior to all pro screens. That would be great for everyone, especially those on a budget. I have objections to your statement made above about gray screens in general. I'm defending the principle, not Carada in particular. I actually never opened up any of the MM/CMRA/SuperDuper/Plexiglass threads because I don't feel like going through all the pages. I'll take your word that they give a good picture. I might even try one in the future if it doesn't cost too much. BTW, how much would it cost me to build the current best screen of yours?
 
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