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Discussion Starter #1
So far attention has focused on the screendoor effect with HD (or ED) signals at so many feet: consensus seems that it vanishes near 8 or between 8 and 9 feet.


What about SD programs at 8½ feet (which will be my viewing distance)?

Is their PQ really "good" or does one need to sit back further?


Thank you.
 

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Maurice, as always, it depends on your source. I have a Panny 42 ED and use Dish Network via DVI cable. Some SD channels look like true ED and others look blurry. It just depends on the quality of the signal being given to the display.
 

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Maurice2

I agree that even with bargain ED plasmas the screendoor effect diasppears somewhere between 6-9 feet. Depends on the brand and on your eyes/brain. Some are more sensitive to it than others. And some plasmas have more obvious screen door effect than others. The issue of necessary distance to achieve "good" PQ from SD programming is a bit more ambiguous. In my experience a good 42ED such as the Panasonic or the Sony requires something between 12-15 feet for SD material to look "good." Depends in part on the signal and the material. Sports is toughtest. "Good" means that PQ is not obviously and significantly poorer than what you would expect when viewing the same SD material on an average analog CRT monitor. That is, of course.somewhat subjective. If you are used to watching a 36 inch CRT from 6 feet and find PQ good then a 42" ED plasma from 8 1/2 feet might seem fine. My personal standard of "really good to excellent" for SD is a 15 " analog CRT watched from about 6 feet. Since my maximum viewing distance is going to be 9-10 feet I have pretty much decided that I will eventually get a 37inch plasma or LCD. I watch a lot of SD tv including sports and news. If I mostly watched HD and DVDs or if there were better scalers on plasmas for converting NTSC signals I would happily go for a 42" plasma screen. Finally, all this is based on viewing plasmas only in stores over the past year or so, though many of the stores were very high end with excellent set ups. Some here on the AVS Forum have argued that one can get even better results from SD signals at home when you experiment with composite and S video inputs, better cables and tweeking the settings.( Do a search for RHarkness and The Steaming Rat Method.) Some here have said the SD on the 42 ED Panasonic can look good at 8 or 9 feet. I have not seen that in any store set up myself. And others have said that the Fujitsu 42ED (based on the Pansasonic 42ED) with AVM processing does an even better job with SD material than the Panasonic. I have seen the Fujitsu 42 ED showing SD material and I was not entirely convinced. One time it looked maybe 10-15% sharper than the Panny and the next time... Maybe. You might take a look at the Fujitsu 42ED showing SD if you really, really want a 42' plasma and want to be certain that you are getting the best SD PQ available. Let us know what you decide.
 

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Yeah, what Malachy said.

I have the 37" and 42" pwd 6UY, and SD PQ can vary, but are still pretty good.

Now, when these puppies are fed an HD Signal, well...... the PQ is great to my eyes.

For me, it was not worth the extra $$ at this time, for what I perceived to be a small increment in PQ to justify the $$ on the HD set.

But that's just me. I'm very pleased with the PQ on these sets.

I think you'll be too!

Cheers, VB

Cheers, VB
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Quote:
Originally posted by 3.1415926 pi
I'm very pleased with the PQ on these sets.
VB, what is your viewing distance with the 42"? This is the critical issue for me. I'm sold on the PQ for HD signals, but for SD at 8 and 1/2 feet, that's where I need reassurances (or the opposite).


Malachy, thanks for your statement. I'd love to be able to afford the Fujitsu, but can't. I'm used to watching SD on my 27" CRT at 7 and 1/2 feet, and in general it looks very good. The jump to the 42" Panny EDTV at 8 and 1/2 feet (maximum) scares me a bit, given that I'll still watch a lot of SD.


Of course, I'm aware that it all depends on the quality of the source. So let me re-phrase my question this way:


if an SD channel looks "very good" on my 27" at 7 and 1/2 feet, will the same channel look at least "good" on the ED Panny 42" at 8 and 1/2 feet?
 

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all,

pardon me for asking but could you describe the "screen door effect" further? i just got a 42" JVC ED WV7 and had it connected to a newly installed DirecTV via regular rca jacks (i will be switching to component video this weekend) watching at 8-9 feet. the pq is not near what i expected, kinda fuzzy, sometime sharper, color morphs in and out slightly. when i look at darker sections of the broadcast, i see blotches that change form. is this normal?


thanks.
 

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Maurice2, I'm about 8-9 ft from the 42".

There was a poll done here recently on viewing distances, and the most popular distance was 8 ft!

Your distance may vary by a foot , further or closer. It depends on your eyesight.

The PQ on HD is definately better , but that's for HD!!!

HD sets don't seem to handle SD as well as the ED sets.

At least my eyes told that to me. The HD set seemed to show, using an SD signal, more artifacts, & grain, in the PQ.

I guess I could say "trust me" with regard to the PQ of the ED panel, but your eyes are the truest test.

All I can tell you is my experience with these panels.

The HD signal, when fed through these ED panels, is truly remarkable, and the SD signal, "depending" on the source, will be a joy to watch.

There is an expression here:

"garbage in, garbage out"

That is to say, your PQ will be dependent on the quality of the signal you receive!

Cheers, VB
 

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Maurice,


I'm at about 8'-81/2' away from my 42-WD6UY and find Directv and cable to be fine. Picture quality wasn't much better on my Mitsubishi 35". This is composite thru a Denon 3802. Its hard to say what the exact PQ will be with so many variations in source material.


DVD's thru component direct to the panel are outstanding at this distance. I'm waiting for more HD programming and affordable HD DVR's to take that plunge but have read HD is very good on ED panels.


Bill
 

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I have just ordered the Panasonic - TH-42PHD6UY from Visual Apex. In the meantime I went and looked at the consumer version of this display at a local B&M. I looked at SD and HD content on the 2 displays via cable and it looked very good from all distances beyond 4-6 feet. I can see the screen door effect on the ED resolution display but what was more interesting IMO was the artifacts from the scaling that takes place in the display from the source (component cable box or progessive DVD player). The noise from the scaling and processing actually looks lower in the ED that the HD display especialy when looking at SD material. (These 2 displays are right on top of each other and under the same lighting conditions and we adjusted the displays to some degree for brightness and sharpness) I then went to the Panasonic progressive DVD player and under those conditions the noise was a little better but it still looked better to me on the ED display. Now I will not be watching much if any SD material on my display considering it looks as bad as it did but it's clear that input sources such as 480i and 480P are better handled on the 480P ED display in terms of scaling--duh. My use of the display includes stills and other uses so I am after the extra vertical lines but I learned a little today. I am sure there are many other reasons that this might be happening and experts on this forum will surely recognize them. I am still just learning all of this stuff.
 

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koneman, the easiest way to describe "screendoor", ...have ya ever looked through a screendoor on the back of your house in the summer??

That's what it looks like on the screen of your set!

If you get close enough to the screen of your set, you'll see a screen on the screen!!!

Was that redundant?? D :D


With regard to your RCA connections, you may want to try the s-video connection.

Your set may yield a better pic using the s-video, and that could be dependent on the electronics of your set.

Some of us have noticed that composite connections yield better results when viewing an SD signal.

That will be somewhat dependent on the comb filter, and the scaling ability of your set, vs the ability of the STB you're using.

Once you set up the component cables, (I'm assuming HD or DVD signal)

let us know what you think of the PQ then??

Cheers, VB
 

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koneman - The screen door effect is you as a viewer being able to physically see the pixel structure of the monitor. This looks like a screen door has been layed down over your monitor, so you can literally see what looks like small squares across the unit.


Your PQ issues sound as if they are related to something else, the screen door effect doesn't affect the colors of the display. :)


I hope that helps! :)


-Juice
 

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Malachy,


It's very difficult to find a decent NTSC picture in stores. Even when I watch NTSC on plasmas set up in the best high-end parlors in my city the image doesn't look anywhere near as good as my Panny ED model does with the same sources at my home.


I'm about 8 feet from the display, and I find the detail, depth and naturalness of the NTSC image creates an image quality I far prefer over my Panasonic Tau CRT direct view (27"). I would never say you need to be 12-15 feet away and I think you'd find the same if you saw the ED plasma in a proper home set-up.
 

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Excellent answers above, but can I ask about 50" HD panny? Will SD PQ be "acceptable" at 12' viewing distance... or am i safer going with a 42"


As Maurice2 put it: if an SD channel looks "very good" on my 45" (4:3) RPTV at 12 feet, will the same channel look at least "good" on the HD Panny 50" at 12 feet?


Thanks
 

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Dreamin, IMHO, you will be fine at 12 feet with the 50" -- and you'll love it for HD and DVD if you like the big-screen effect.
 

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3.1415926 pi and juice,

i would say then that 'screen door' is a good way to describe what im seeing. dvd is fine via component. what im not pleased with is basic DirecTV. as i said, its now going from a basic hughes receiver to the plasma media box via RCA cables. not ideal i know. today im swapping the basic hughes for a premium model and will connect it to the media box via component so im hoping for better results here.
 

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koneman, even with this new hookup, are you not going to be using composite or s-video for your SD signal??

VB
 

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koneman, the screen door will be noticeable no matter what your feed is. Your media box won't affect it. It's simply the actual pixel structure, which, only your eyes can fool you into not seeing. :)


-Juice
 

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Hey Juice, I'm sorry for not keeping up, but which plasma did you end up with??

Cheers, VB
 

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Sadly, nothing yet. I'm still waiting for the ever elusive 42pwd6uy. Unfortuntely, the vendor I've ordered it from did not get a shipment as had been "foretold". In turn, I'm waiting to see when they will supposedly have their next shipment show up. Looks like I won't be sitting on the couch enjoying one until late Feb or early march. :(


Sigh, time to go join my wife on the couch and continue watching movies on our 19" Sharp that I picked up in 1990. :)


-Juice
 

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I can't wait 'til the day when 95% of TV is HD and hence all this SD talk will become moot. When will all the TV stations (including cable) go all HD? 2010?
 
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