[Jeramee2]

Hey there AVS friends,

I am a long time forum reader, but rare on the posting...

I am on the hunt for a new subwoofer solution- time for a debate! So two subs to be considered: the Seaton SubMersive versus TWO SVS SV-13's. With the open box and 5% discount, can land the SVS's for about $2,700.

Facts:
(1) Large basement room (about 26 feet long by 16 feet wide by 9 feet tall) = 3700 cubic feet + opening to stairs.
(2) Room for multiple subwoofers with different placement options.
(3) Budget $2500-3000
(4) 90% TV and movies, 10% music
(5) interesting alternative: I also own a JL Audio f113 (LOVE it) being used in my other dedicated theater room... Consider nabbing a second one to have the option for future dual f113s in the same room down the road instead?

Thanks all!

 

[shadyJ]

I would go for dual SVS SB13s in that choice. However, in that budget I think you can do better that a couple SB13s or a Submersive. I would look to see what Rythmik, Hsu , or Reaction Audio would do. I think your money will go further with them. Two FV15Hps or VTF15h mk2s or Echo 15s should be able to outperform the SVS and Seaton systems pretty easily and for less money.

 

[bear123]

3700 cu. ft, 90% movies, my picks would be:

1) Dual RA Echo 18 (this option would likely have a very substantial performance lead)
2) Dual Rythmik FV15HP
3) Dual Hsu VTF15.2
4) Dual PSA V1500

These would all fall well within your budget. If you choose to go with only the three you have listed, I would choose the Seaton Submersive.

 

[Jeramee2]

Sealed options preferred

Hey there gang, thanks for the responses so far, I'll research some of the other options listed!

I did want to mention that I do tend to prefer SEALED subs over ported (at least in those I've heard)... I know I lose some output and gain some costs, but my ears always seem to favor sealed.

 

[JT78681]

Hey there gang, thanks for the responses so far, I'll research some of the other options listed!

I did want to mention that I do tend to prefer SEALED subs over ported (at least in those I've heard)... I know I lose some output and gain some costs, but my ears always seem to favor sealed.

What ported subs have you heard? Just curious!

 

[Jeramee2]

Now that I think about it - ported - I haven't heard many!

What ported subs have you heard? Just curious!

Way to make me look in the mirror! I guess not very many of consequence, now that I think about it. Perhaps I need to rethink my whole outlook . The only one that I truly have a lot of exposure to was my HSU VTF-3 MK3. It was a great sub for my budget/needs at the time! So not knocking HSU at all, they make some good stuff. I just always found that my ears favored the (sealed) HSU ULS15 in my other room, even though it had somewhat less output. Then I heard my (sealed) JL Audio Fathom (LOVE IT) and my friend's (sealed) Velodyne. Now that I am looking back, it is probably not fair to compare a few $4,000 sealed subs to HSU's mid level $800 offering and say "well obviously sealed subs are better".

I have never heard an SVS PB-13 ultra, or the Rhythmik vented subs, any of the nice ones. I rescind my prior comments, give me any recommendations sealed or ported, I'll be open minded on this one . Budget is $2500 to $3000. I will say that most postings seem to indicate having 2 subwoofers (even if a step down from a higher end sub) is supposed to "open up a lot more sound". Thus the original posting of "Would you go with one of the beasts versus two of the really nice, but lesser cost options".

Thanks again everyone for the input (and for opening my eyes a bit on the ported options)!

 

[JT78681]

Well there are a lot of great ported subs out there from companies such as HSU, PSA, JTR, Reaction Audio, SVS, Rythmik etc.... With your budget you could easily snag a pair of Rythmik FV15HP's. Yes, I am being biased here, but since you are after a really clean sounding sub and are open to ported I just don't think many are going to top the FV15HP for it's price, extension, output, and servo technology. It's not a fluke that it's probably one of the most recommended subs for under $2000 on the ID market. Both of mine are in a living room over 5,000 cu ft and about 12ft away from the MLP and they hit hard, but maintain excellent composure

 

[basshead81]

I voted for Submersive but with a eye on adding a second down the road. However my personal picks would be a pair of Echo 18's or FV15HP's.

 

[JT78681]

I voted for Submersive but with a eye on adding a second down the road. However my personal picks would be a pair of Echo 18's or FV15HP's.

With his budget in that size room one Submersive isn't going to cut it considering 90% of listening habits will be TV/Movies. I'd be all over two high quality ported subs for the price he will pay for just a single Submersive. With that said, I voted on none of the above.

 

[JT78681]

^^^ I would also consider a pair of PSA's new S3000i.

 

[derrickdj1]

That room needs two or three subs at least. 18 inch subs are a nice way to go. Ported all the way over sealed if there will only be two subs.

 

[bear123]

If you have your heart set on sealed subs, there's nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that equivalent ported subs will have double, or more than double the output around port tune. That's why it takes two S2's to come close to the output of 2 Cap2400's. Four sealed drivers still can't quite match the output two ported. So, within your budget, the Cap2400's will have the most output in the most effective region, with way more output than you need everywhere else.

If it is in the budget, dual S2's will get you similar, but less output around tune and, like the dual Cap2400's, more output than you can use above 30 Hz. You would probably also see an increase somewhere below 14 Hz as well. How much you would notice that is debatable. From what I remember, a single passive Cap2400 is possibly more tactile than dual Seaton Submersives, if I recollect properly from one of the G2G's. One of the active forum members, having owned dual passive Cap2400's, claims that a single Cap has more output than dual PB13Ultra's, and that it took him 6-8 sealed 18's to approximate what he had with his dual Caps. I think it may have been Archea? Anyway, I stand by my top pick of dual powered Cap 2400's, but if it is in the budget, I think you would not be wondering "what if" with dual S2's either.

 

[basshead81]

With his budget in that size room one Submersive isn't going to cut it considering 90% of listening habits will be TV/Movies. I'd be all over two high quality ported subs for the price he will pay for just a single Submersive. With that said, I voted on none of the above.

You won't even measure your room response so I don't want to hear it.

Let me guess, you added silver cones so the bass must be louder, more crisp, and the response is flatter. Lol

 

[basshead81]

If you have your heart set on sealed subs, there's nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that equivalent ported subs will have double, or more than double the output around port tune. That's why it takes two S2's to come close to the output of 2 Cap2400's. Four sealed drivers still can't quite match the output two ported. So, within your budget, the Cap2400's will have the most output in the most effective region, with way more output than you need everywhere else.

If it is in the budget, dual S2's will get you similar, but less output around tune and, like the dual Cap2400's, more output than you can use above 30 Hz. You would probably also see an increase somewhere below 14 Hz as well. How much you would notice that is debatable. From what I remember, a single passive Cap2400 is possibly more tactile than dual Seaton Submersives, if I recollect properly from one of the G2G's. One of the active forum members, having owned dual passive Cap2400's, claims that a single Cap has more output than dual PB13Ultra's, and that it took him 6-8 sealed 18's to approximate what he had with his dual Caps. I think it may have been Archea? Anyway, I stand by my top pick of dual powered Cap 2400's, but if it is in the budget, I think you would not be wondering "what if" with dual S2's either.

I agree but I am going to play the other side of the coin on this one.

Port tune output is such a narrow frequency range do you really think that you could tell a difference between 2 SubM's and 2 FV15HP' in a blind listening test with source material or do you think the port tune advantage of the FV15 would be noticeable? I only ask because recently there have been a couple members that have owned both state the SubM was more powerful everywhere but unless pushing to the subs limits it was hard to tell a difference between the 2. This kind of opened my eyes in a sense but I know how subjective personal reviews can be.

one I day would like to hear both set up the same playing the same material at reference to see if I can actually notice the extra port tune output. Again on paper it looks to be very noticeable, but when you read most reviews the SubM always comes out on top.

 

[bear123]

I agree but I am going to play the other side of the coin on this one.

Port tune output is such a narrow frequency range do you really think that you could tell a difference between 2 SubM's and 2 FV15HP' in a blind listening test with source material or do you think the port tune advantage of the FV15 would be noticeable? I only ask because recently there have been a couple members that have owned both state the SubM was more powerful everywhere but unless pushing to the subs limits it was hard to tell a difference between the 2. This kind of opened my eyes in a sense but I know how subjective personal reviews can be.

one I day would like to hear both set up the same playing the same material at reference to see if I can actually notice the extra port tune output. Again on paper it looks to be very noticeable, but when you read most reviews the SubM always comes out on top.

In the case of those two subs, probably not. I would think there would only be a 1-3 dB difference in output in a narrow band, with the Submersive having an advantage above 30 Hz and maybe down in the low teens. However, if a Cap2400 has 115 dB of output at 20 Hz, that is going to be hugely noticeable compared to a sub that is all in at 105, or even 108.

Hopefully I will be able to do some measurements comparing a sealed sub to ported, with compression/output comparisons, along with subjective impressions.

 

[JT78681]

You won't even measure your room response so I don't want to hear it.

Let me guess, you added silver cones so the bass must be louder, more crisp, and the response is flatter. Lol

Bah measuring just opens up Pandora's box and yes you are damn straight my new silver cones added twice the output while maintaining a ruler flat frequency response. When are you going to come to the dark side and snag a pair of FV15HP's? I know deep down you long for them.

 

[mnc]

^^^ I would also consider a pair of PSA's new S3000i.

+1

 

[basshead81]

Bah measuring just opens up Pandora's box and yes you are damn straight my new silver cones added twice the output while maintaining a ruler flat frequency response. When are you going to come to the dark side and snag a pair of FV15HP's? I know deep down you long for them.

Lol...I kick myself for passing up a pair of Piano Black with silver cones for 1700.00 used. They were only 3 hrs away too.

 

[Jeramee2]

Rhythmik fv15hp - seem to be in everyone's top 2 here

So it may be that everyone hangs in the same forum circles, but it seems like nearly everyone named the rhythmik fv15hp in their top one or two at this price point. That's a great sign!

I have most definitely heard them raved about in past readings on the forum, but never heard them in person.

Two follow ups to feed the conversation:
1. Has anyone heard the Svs pb13's? Why Rhythmic over SVS?

2. If budget is less of an issue, head to head, money aside... You get to choose your set of two: Two Seaton SubMersives or two rhythmik fvhp's - which do you go with?

 

[Jeramee2]

Interesting- ZERO votes for the JL Audio F113

Just one more interesting observation... So, I own it and I love it, I know you pay a premium for it, but still I am amazed not a single person voted for the good ol' Fathom F113!! I realize it's a "value proposition", but not one person !?