[wth718]

As an owner of a number of eD car audio subs I was quite surprised to come across the Craig sub list which showed the A7-900 as the top performer at the time. Fast forward a few years and there are obviously new offerings in the high-end ID market.


Based on my reading, the Submersive is at or near the top of the list at present. A friend recently mentioned getting a fathom and hoped to spend around $2500. I knew he could do much better for the money and it got me thinking; how do the eD and the seaton compare? Not only do I not see any fr graphs for the eD, but I rarely see it mentioned. Why is that? Is it because of the negative 100 waf? Or did some info come out showing it didn't perform as well as first thought?


If all out performance were the criteria and waf be damned, which would be the choice?

 

[shadyJ]

The ED will certainly have more output. You won't see a lot of commentary on it because not many have a A7-900. The thing is huge and weighs 400 lbs. Very few can accommodate that. I don't know how it compares to the Submersive as far as sound quality goes.

 

[capecodorthopod]

Heard a submersive and was astounded at sound quality and output at that size. Not only have I not heard the monster eD but I don't remember even reading here about anyone who has one. It may sound great but it's just so big and heavy I'd pay more $$ and get multiple smaller subs to even FR across room and spare my lower back.

 

[counsil]

I have heard an A7-900, in the same room as dual PB13 Ultras no less.


Long story short. The A7-900 had a lot more output, but got boomy at spirited levels. The Ultras dug deeper and were more articulate.


If memory serves me correctly, the A7-900 stood about as tall and wide as the stacked Ultras.

 

[capecodorthopod]

Thanks for the info counsil. Kinda what I expected.

 

[wth718]

I guess that would make sense. In Ricci's test on the more popular eD that uses the same 18" driver the 900 does, he says that the sub is being held back by the driver itself. Having heard the O car audio woofer it's derived from and then the more expensive 13AV2 used in some other offerings, I can attest to the improved sq.


Interesting that it would be boomy when pushed. Considering all the available headroom you'd think they could eliminate that.

 

[shadyJ]

Honestly can you even say that sub is what gets boomy when pushed? At the point of being pushed it would have so much output that other factors might come into play.

 

[dominguez1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil /forum/post/20819039


I have heard an A7-900, in the same room as dual PB13 Ultras no less.


Long story short. The A7-900 had a lot more output, but got boomy at spirited levels. The Ultras dug deeper and were more articulate.


If memory serves me correctly, the A7-900 stood about as tall and wide as the stacked Ultras.

When you listened to them both, did you graph their frequency responses and/or frequency match the subs?


If you did not, the difference in sound ("boomy", "dug deeper", "articulate") would be dominated by its native response in that room, not its 'sound quality'.


To really make an apples to apples comparison between the sound quality of different subs, you must frequency match the subs. Otherwise, you are really just expressing which particular in-room frequency response you prefer.

 

[spyboy]

This is what Craig Chase wrote about the A7-900:


"Listening results: This subwoofer has almost no weaknesses. It presents everything from the deepest pipe organ and movie bass spectaculars to a hard driving bass guitar with an effortless quality that is the best we have heard to date. On the WOTW emerge scene there was nothing but waves of bass that one felt rolling through the room. The standard Steely Dan 2AN disc was tight, tuneful and the 18 Hz bass present in this disc were easily felt, yet the upper bass regions were agile."


Craig held on to the A7-900 long after virtually all the other tested subs were gone, and may actually still have it. No sub scored higher for music, and no sub scored as high as the A7-900 for movies. When you consider that one of the tested subs was the Velodyne DD-18, which is a sealed servo controlled sub and won't let you push it to more than 5% THD, it says something that no other sub scored higher than the Ed A7-900 for music.

 

[wth718]

That description certainly doesn't sound like it's for a boomy sub. If the sq is as good as he described and the inherent advantage of 2 18s in a ported enclosure vs 2 15s in a sealed one, it sounds like the eD should have the advantage.

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 /forum/post/20823237


That description certainly doesn't sound like it's for a boomy sub. If the sq is as good as he described and the inherent advantage of 2 18s in a ported enclosure vs 2 15s in a sealed one, it sounds like the eD should have the advantage.

Remember that Craig did not test the Submersive, however, he had heard it and spoke very highly of it. As good as the A7-900 is, the Submersive would test very very well.


In the following thread, there was a shootout that included the Submersive and the JTR Captivator, which is a good size ported sub.


These 2 stood out from the rest, and the Submersive was excellent.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335139


Especially in a smaller sealed room, the Submersive is hard to beat. In large open floor plan spaces, like 6,000 cubic feet, a ported sub like the JTR Captivator or Ed A7-900 might have the edge.


And as others have pointed out, the Submersive is much smaller and lighter, making proper placement easier.

 

[wth718]

I actually pm'd him and his words were (and this is a very slight paraphrase) "the A7 would stomp the Submersive. But the Submersive is a lot smaller."

 

[wth718]

Quick clarification because I can't figure out how to edit from my phone. That was in terms of output. Previous replies have addressed the sq aspects, so make of that what you will.

 

[Warpdrv]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 /forum/post/20824054


"the A7 would stomp the Submersive. But the Submersive is a lot smaller."

Go Figure in terms of output

, 2 18" drivers in a ported box the size of a fridge compared to a pair of 15" drivers in a small sealed box...


Hope you have room for a box the size of the 900... wow

 

[BiGBADDABOOM]

I'd ask eD to custom build you a passive A7-900 with the drivers from the A7-450 (30mm xmax). Add a MA5050 for power and something for highpass.

 

[wth718]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/0



Go Figure in terms of output

, 2 18" drivers in a ported box the size of a fridge compared to a pair of 15" drivers in a small sealed box...


Hope you have room for a box the size of the 900... wow

Umm, that was exactly the point I made in my earlier point. But then the point was made to me in reply that the seaton would be close. So you and I aren't disagreeing one iota.


And the entire premise of my initial question was how they would compare performance-wise, form factor notwithstanding. This is a point of curiosity and in order to help inform a friend. I certainly don't have space in my family room for that eD. Heck, the Submersive might be pushing it if my memory serves.

 

[spyboy]

The JTR Captivator is getting a lot of attention and people are buying them. I would say that it is the top large ported sub at this time. As you may have seen in pictures, a large, very strong man can carry a Captivator up steps.


And, in the shootout, the Cap was very well liked. The A7-900 is simply too large and heavy for most people. Moving one is at least a 3 man job.


And yes, in the shootout the Submersive had a slight edge in music sound quality while the Captivator had a slight edge for movie performance.

 

[wth718]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM /forum/post/0


I'd ask eD to custom build you a passive A7-900 with the drivers from the A7-450 (30mm xmax). Add a MA5050 for power and something for highpass.

That would probably be a killer product (with a killer price-tag, too). Alas, it wouldn't be my money being spent. Lol.

 

[wth718]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/0


The JTR Captivator is getting a lot of attention and people are buying them. I would say that it is the top large ported sub at this time. As you may have seen in pictures, a large, very strong man can carry a Captivator up steps.


And, in the shootout, the Cap was very well liked. The A7-900 is simply too large and heavy for most people. Moving one is at least a 3 man job.


And yes, in the shootout the Submersive had a slight edge in music sound quality while the Captivator had a slight edge for movie performance.

From what I can tell, the weight isn't that far off that of the gotham, right? That weighs in at a svelte 360 lbs. I swear, how anyone puts these things in their house is beyond me.

 

[pbc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 /forum/post/20824234


Umm, that was exactly the point I made in my earlier point. But then the point was made to me in reply that the seaton would be close. So you and I aren't disagreeing one iota.


And the entire premise of my initial question was how they would compare performance-wise, form factor notwithstanding. This is a point of curiosity and in order to help inform a friend. I certainly don't have space in my family room for that eD. Heck, the Submersive might be pushing it if my memory serves.

The 900 would stomp the Submersive from an SPL standpoint for sure (at least I'd guess from 18hz to 35hz or so), though it will drop like a rock under it's tuning (18hz) at 24db per octave if not more vs 12db per Octave for the Submersive.


SQ would be entirely subjective, and may depend on whether your friend prefers a ported sub sound to a sealed sub. The 900 is such a different animal to the Submersive that it borders on ludicrous to compare the two (i.e., dual 15" "small" sealed box vs monstrosity dual 18" ported subwoofer). But most stuff on this forum does, and makes threads somewhat humorous/interesting.


Further, depending on room size and gain characteristics, the Submersive may in fact be the much better choice and easier to integrate. If it were the Submersive vs the Fathom, to me that is a no brainer decision to go with the Submersive.


Oh, and only Warp would call the Submersive a "small sealed box"! Though I guess in comparison to the 900 (or his own sealed subs), it is quite tiny.