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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys im looking for a reciever thats not loaded down with a bunch of features that dont work. My room size is 14x14. It will be mostly used for movies, about 80/20 movies/music. I will be using an oppo 103 for movies and internet streaming. I'll have a ps4 and cable box going to the oppo so i dont need a avr to do video converting. I like 5.1 but will do 7.1 or 7.2 if need be. Also need it to have pre-outs. I have looked at emotiva fusion 8100 and really like it but they are sold out also really like marantz but dont want or need all the bells and whistles same with denon. Are there any others to like the emotiva? My budget is around 600 i also dont mind refurbished. Oh it will be paired to energy 5.1 speakers for now till i can upgrade.
 

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Ok guys im looking for a reciever thats not loaded down with a bunch of features that dont work. My room size is 14x14. It will be mostly used for movies, about 80/20 movies/music. I will be using an oppo 103 for movies and internet streaming. I'll have a ps4 and cable box going to the oppo so i dont need a avr to do video converting. I like 5.1 but will do 7.1 or 7.2 if need be. Also need it to have pre-outs. I have looked at emotiva fusion 8100 and really like it but they are sold out also really like marantz but dont want or need all the bells and whistles same with denon. Are there any others to like the emotiva? My budget is around 600 i also dont mind refurbished. Oh it will be paired to energy 5.1 speakers for now till i can upgrade.
Checkout NAD
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies!! I have looked at NAD and have heard they do better for stereo then HT. i have also looked at outlaw and and like their amps but like emotiva pre's more. Just dont have the money for sepreats right now. Yes i know that outlaw is pairing their 5 channel amp and the 975 for a grand but would rather have the umc-200 with outlaw 5000 which would put me double what i can spare.
 

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...also really like marantz but dont want or need all the bells and whistles same with denon.
From personal experience I would suggest that you give Marantz a strong look. Yes you may not want the bells and whistles that come on it, but I ran through several Denon models over a few years. Last year I stepped up to a Marantz specifically because of the options it had for inputs and outputs. That is what drove my purchase decision, but now that I have owned it for a while I can say that I am very happy with the Marantz. The user interface on the Marantz is much easier to navigate and much more user intuitive than any Denon I had owned previously. The Marantz also has a sound that is distinctly different from the Denons and agrees with my ears.
 

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If I were you I'd just get a 5 or 7 channel amp and connect it to the Oppo. and then save up for a UMC-200.

Unless I'm blind, it looks like Emotiva has abandoned their U series amps.
I guess it was costing them too much to have so many product lines going, and it was cutting into the X series bread-and-butter line.
 

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There's nothing magical about separates. Nothing. The pricing of most pre-amps also makes it such that there's not a lot really economic savings for using separates going forward.

Ok guys im looking for a reciever thats not loaded down with a bunch of features that dont work.
We see these posts every once in a while. People post complaining about a receiver having features that they don't need. It's really not a good mindset and it ignores how you use the product and the realities of the economics of the marketplace.

That a receiver can do Pandora, Netflix, multi-zone, etc, does mean that it's going to be harder to use if you don't use these features. It also doesn't mean that a receiver without these items is going to sound better because it doesn't have them.

Receivers are built in mass factories in as big of a production run as possible to keep costs low. Building a separate receiver that intentionally has fewer features would be such a small run that it would be very expensive and also since people can't find the features they want, it would be a lower production unit and thus not take advantage of productions of scale.

Basically, there's no cost savings by those features not being there and it doesn't determine sound quality. Just get the marantz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If I were you I'd just get a 5 or 7 channel amp and connect it to the Oppo. and then save up for a UMC-200.

Unless I'm blind, it looks like Emotiva has abandoned their U series amps.
I guess it was costing them too much to have so many product lines going, and it was cutting into the X series bread-and-butter line.
Thought about that but if i just get the amp and hook it up to the oppo then i have no way to ajust the eq correct? That is y i was looking in to an AVR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There's nothing magical about separates. Nothing. The pricing of most pre-amps also makes it such that there's not a lot really economic savings for using separates going forward.



We see these posts every once in a while. People post complaining about a receiver having features that they don't need. It's really not a good mindset and it ignores how you use the product and the realities of the economics of the marketplace.

That a receiver can do Pandora, Netflix, multi-zone, etc, does mean that it's going to be harder to use if you don't use these features. It also doesn't mean that a receiver without these items is going to sound better because it doesn't have them.

Receivers are built in mass factories in as big of a production run as possible to keep costs low. Building a separate receiver that intentionally has fewer features would be such a small run that it would be very expensive and also since people can't find the features they want, it would be a lower production unit and thus not take advantage of productions of scale.

Basically, there's no cost savings by those features not being there and it doesn't determine sound quality. Just get the marantz.
I agree with ur statement but this is how i see it, i would rather have a few electronics that are good at one thing than one electronic that is ok at a lot of things.
 

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I agree with ur statement but this is how i see it, i would rather have a few electronics that are good at one thing than one electronic that is ok at a lot of things.
Again, that's just flawed. A receiver or pre with things like Airplay, Pandora, Netflix, hell even Atmos doesn't make it worse at other things. Similarly, to your flawed logic, anything that necessarily doesn't have those things is better. It's just wrong.

You came here with a question. You might want to learn how to take the advice. Your dream of how the AVR/Preamp works is a fairy tale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Again, that's just flawed. A receiver or pre with things like Airplay, Pandora, Netflix, hell even Atmos doesn't make it worse at other things. Similarly, to your flawed logic, anything that necessarily doesn't have those things is better. It's just wrong.

You came here with a question. You might want to learn how to take the advice. Your dream of how the AVR/Preamp works is a fairy tale.
Lol ok. Amoung hours of reading review after review of how spotify, pandora, sirius keep crashing on recivers and having personal experience with it happining to me is flawed got cha👍 so my thought that the more they cram into a unit the cheaper the parts is flawed ok my bad. So let me say this all i asked for is help finding a no bs reciever. Because that what fits my needs an that what i would like to own. Sorry that what i want dose not fit for u.
 

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It has nothing to do with fitting for me. It's how the industry is. All receivers are no ******** receivers. They'll ALL have some features that you don't use.

As for your hours and hours of reviews, I've never seen a post in the forum about Pandora, Spotify, etc crashing a receiver. you won't be using that software running on an AVR, so you shouldn't care.

The Emotiva might lack those features, but only because they don't have the expertise or engineering bandwidth to build those into that product. That product has issues of its own.

You're now 12 posts in to this thread without a single product recommendation because you're stuck on odd criteria.
 

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Ok guys im looking for a reciever thats not loaded down with a bunch of features that dont work. My room size is 14x14. It will be mostly used for movies, about 80/20 movies/music. I will be using an oppo 103 for movies and internet streaming. I'll have a ps4 and cable box going to the oppo so i dont need a avr to do video converting. I like 5.1 but will do 7.1 or 7.2 if need be. Also need it to have pre-outs...
There's nothing magical about separates. Nothing. The pricing of most pre-amps also makes it such that there's not a lot really economic savings for using separates going forward...

...Receivers are built in mass factories in as big of a production run as possible to keep costs low. Building a separate receiver that intentionally has fewer features would be such a small run that it would be very expensive and also since people can't find the features they want, it would be a lower production unit and thus not take advantage of productions of scale...
Resisting strong temptation to :rolleyes: at some of these comments. Good observations but not quite on target.

Here are the relevant rules of thumb that I can convey based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the AVR manufacturing/marketplace and how it affects the design of a receiver.

First rule is that those minimalist receivers you are asking about are exactly the same in many ways to more sophisticated models, except that they cost less, they are smaller and lighter, and have fewer features.

The feature reduction often means merely some components and connectors omitted from the circuit boards and some firmware changes. Fewer HDMI input, no dedicated projector output, fewer zones, lesser surround processing and room correction, etc.

The second rule of thumb is that the best supported receivers are going to be those in the middle of the line that sell the best. High and low budget receivers in a line of models are niche market and not likely to be well supported. If you can afford the best then you can afford to upgrade and if all you can afford is the worst then who cares about your planned obsolescence broken receiver anyway?

Other differences in budget models include fewer channels, a lesser performing D/A, slightly less amplifier power output with a smaller power supply too, and (unfortunately for you) no pre-out.

Economies of scale prohibit the total redesign of the unit for a given feature set so they start each design cycle with a kitchen sink reference design with everything on it and then start cutting things out of it and substituting parts/assemblies/chassis to make the line of lesser models.

The 'sonic signature' of a lesser D/A may or may not be an issue depending on if you have really good hearing plus a dedicated soundproof home theater or listen with noise-cancelling headphones or do not use the D/A in the receiver at all.

The reduced amplifier power might not matter to you either, especially if you want to use pre-out. Unfortunately most stripped-down models have the pre-out jacks and buffers stripped out too.

In a room that small with reasonably efficient speakers you probably do not need more than 90WPC but you should keep in mind that...

the average N channel receiver with Y WPC two channels driven probably will only output 4*Y watts total with all channels driven simultaneously and then only intermittently, not continuous sinusoidal - in other words consider the stereo power rating to be the actual total power rating for the whole receiver. Consider it like a two-channel rig for the purposes of comparison shopping on amplifier power.

If you are looking for reference level and your room is not surrounded by walls floor and ceiling with no penetrations to other rooms, or has been soundproofed and is very dead, or your speakers are very inefficient, you may need more power. Probably you already made this decision anyway.

Keep in mind that even a doubling in power is barely more than perceptible. It takes 10X the power to get a doubling in apparent loudness so it is usually a good idea to get speakers that are more efficient as well as able to handle more power if loudness is an issue.

Any receiver with full pre-amp out is likely to cost more and contain more features than you are looking for. Pre-out is usually reserved for the more advanced models. You might need to adjust your expectations. In the world of receivers, feature set rules. There is no such thing IME as a stripped-down pro quality home theater receiver with pre-out.

Seems like you probably already knew all this... good luck finding the equipment you desire.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you cheryljosie for your restraint and im sure i could have made my post a lil more clear. With that said i was hopping someone might know of another company that has a reciver like the emotiva fusion 8100. Without all the features of the mass produced recivers have. Honestly if i could run an amp from the oppo bdp-103 and have some kind of room calabration thats what i would do.
 

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Resisting strong temptation to :rolleyes: at some of these comments. Good observations but not quite on target.

Nor are your comments!

Here are the relevant rules of thumb that I can convey based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the AVR manufacturing/marketplace and how it affects the design of a receiver.

If you admittedly have limited knowledge why are you speaking into this subject matter?


First rule is that those minimalist receivers you are asking about are exactly the same in many ways to more sophisticated models, except that they cost less, they are smaller and lighter, and have fewer features.

Wrong! If they are lighter it is because they have smaller power supplies and less heat sinking = not the same! This will totally change the sonic qualities of the amplifier sections. Furthermore, the higher end of a series, makes improvements in preamp qualities as well = not the same. They cost less because they are not the same!

The feature reduction often means merely some components and connectors omitted from the circuit boards and some firmware changes. Fewer HDMI input, no dedicated projector output, fewer zones, lesser surround processing and room correction, etc.

This is a given, and what the OP asked for, but he wanted sonic quality to remain, while BS features were stripped away.

- NAD
- Marantz
- Harmon Kardon

These guy come to market this way!

The second rule of thumb is that the best supported receivers are going to be those in the middle of the line that sell the best. High and low budget receivers in a line of models are niche market and not likely to be well supported. If you can afford the best then you can afford to upgrade and if all you can afford is the worst then who cares about your planned obsolescence broken receiver anyway?

You are making this stuff up, no one likes to waste money, and the OP didn't say anything about having a low or high budget, he out right stated that he has 600-buck for new or used; you are assuming to much. He was looking for brand references, not a 101 on how to shop for AVR's.

Other differences in budget models include fewer channels, a lesser performing D/A, slightly less amplifier power output with a smaller power supply too, and (unfortunately for you) no pre-out.

>>> this makes them not the same!

Economies of scale prohibit the total redesign of the unit for a given feature set so they start each design cycle with a kitchen sink reference design with everything on it and then start cutting things out of it and substituting parts/assemblies/chassis to make the line of lesser models.

>>>

The 'sonic signature' of a lesser D/A may or may not be an issue depending on if you have really good hearing plus a dedicated soundproof home theater or listen with noise-cancelling headphones or do not use the D/A in the receiver at all.

Again not true! You're down playing sonic qualities and offering suppositions in place of facts.

The reduced amplifier power might not matter to you either, especially if you want to use pre-out. Unfortunately most stripped-down models have the pre-out jacks and buffers stripped out too.

Again, he is looking for models with BS features removed, not Pre's removed! Low power doesn't = no preouts, some sure - most no! At 600-buck's preouts are definitely going to be present.

In a room that small with reasonably efficient speakers you probably do not need more than 90WPC but you should keep in mind that...

90-Watts - rated how? Very few AVR's actually output 90-watts per channel. Most have a 4-6 amp fuse, do the math! Some may have a 10-amp fuse but even those aren't likely to achieve a sustainable output of 90-watts x 5 or 6 channels, as 50% of the power is lost to inefficiencies and at least 2-amp is directed towards power all of the other circuits. He wants a no BS AVR - real power first, features second. 50-Watts from an HK AVR, is in fact a usable 50-Watts! 5 x 50 = 300-Watts, that balances with the fusing, no BS in that!

the average N channel receiver with Y WPC two channels driven probably will only output 4*Y watts total with all channels driven simultaneously and then only intermittently, not continuous sinusoidal - in other words consider the stereo power rating to be the actual total power rating for the whole receiver. Consider it like a two-channel rig for the purposes of comparison shopping on amplifier power.

This is not based on any facts that I know of, seems like more supposition!

If you are looking for reference level and your room is not surrounded by walls floor and ceiling with no penetrations to other rooms, or has been soundproofed and is very dead, or your speakers are very inefficient, you may need more power. Probably you already made this decision anyway.

>>> Why would he need more power?

Keep in mind that even a doubling in power is barely more than perceptible. It takes 10X the power to get a doubling in apparent loudness so it is usually a good idea to get speakers that are more efficient as well as able to handle more power if loudness is an issue.

False statement: we can perceive fluctuations in output as low as .1dB at certain frequencies; .3dB is a universal reality. 1 dB is obvious to all, regardless of frequency. 3dB is massive - it's equal to double the power! 10dB is equal to 10 x the power and is equal to double loudness.

Any receiver with full pre-amp out is likely to cost more and contain more features than you are looking for. Pre-out is usually reserved for the more advanced models. You might need to adjust your expectations. In the world of receivers, feature set rules. There is no such thing IME as a stripped-down pro quality home theater receiver with pre-out.

There sure is - several in fact!

Seems like you probably already knew all this... good luck finding the equipment you desire.:)
I have responded in context above.
 

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Thank you cheryljosie for your restraint and im sure i could have made my post a lil more clear. With that said i was hopping someone might know of another company that has a reciver like the emotiva fusion 8100. Without all the features of the mass produced recivers have. Honestly if i could run an amp from the oppo bdp-103 and have some kind of room calabration thats what i would do.
This NAD AVR is selling for 550-600 online, just Google it - Here's a link to a review.

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/nad-t-748-pre
 

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Ok guys im looking for a reciever thats not loaded down with a bunch of features that dont work.
As many features are simply a couple of lines of code in the DSP, if you don't use them, what does it matter?
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I will give NAD more thought seeing that a couple have mentiond them. As for anthem like them but cant find them in my price range. If u know of a place that has them for around 500 or 600 please let me know but looked on ebay didnt see to many of them on there. As for y does it matter it dont but if i could find an avr w/o all the features that would be grate cause thats all i want. If i only use 2 or 3 of the hdmi ports y get an avr with 6 or 8 ports i have other devices that handle tthe streaming and video so y do i need the avr to do any it's just over kill.
 
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