[The Robman]

I get the impression that the Select/Enter thing will never be fixed because the designers do not agree that it's wrong, which is their right of course, it's their system. And I am willing to concede that the people who use Replay as a kind of cable box rather than a time-shifting device would probably want to keep the button assignment as it is, which is why it's probably going to stay the way it is.


So, here's what I propose: It occurs to me that the only time that the ENTER button has a function is when you want to directly select a channel by entering the channel number followed by ENTER, and in this instance the SELECT button also performs the same function. So, if the ENTER button was made to function just like a SELECT button in all other cases, such as selecting items from a menu or entering data in the "Find Shows" screen, then those of us that would like to see the SELECT button always function like a SELECT button, could simply move the ENTER button to the SELECT button on our remotes (using the 994 command) and the people who like things just the way they are, can leave them so.


I would also suggest making the PLAY button perform the same function as the 'current' SELECT button when viewing the Channel Guide, for those of us that think this is the more logical button for this.


I think this solution should make everyone happy, no? Woody, Mike, any thoughts?


------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

 

[Chris Myers]

I've suggested making ENTER work that way too. The box already treats ENTER differently depending on the context in which it's pressed. Highlight the current show in the Channel Guide, press ENTER, and you get the popup menu. Highlight the same show, tap channel digits and press ENTER, and you get moved to that channel in the guide.


On my Pronto, when I press the Channel Guide button, I jump to a panel that simply has a big cursor pad with select button. I don't want to mess up that panel by adding an 'enter' button to serve a very limited purpose (basically, doing "Find All..." on current programs). If I could simply reprogram the 'select' button on that panel to use the ENTER code, I'd be delighted. As it is now, ENTER gets the popup displayed, but will not execute choices.

 

[The Robman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Myers: On my Pronto, when I press the Channel Guide button, I jump to a panel that simply has a big cursor pad with select button. I don't want to mess up that panel by adding an 'enter' button to serve a very limited purpose (basically, doing "Find All..." on current programs). If I could simply reprogram the 'select' button on that panel to use the ENTER code, I'd be delighted. As it is now, ENTER gets the popup displayed, but will not execute choices.

Maybe you could have two versions of the cursor pad, one with the real SELECT button in the middle, and another with the ENTER function in the middle, and when you press the Channel Guide button it takes you to the second version, but when you press some other menu button (such as Replay Guide) it would take you to the first version.


Obviously, if Replay agrees to my fix, all you'll need to do is program your SELECT button to perform the ENTER function, which is what I will do on my universal too.



------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/


[This message has been edited by The Robman (edited 11-18-2000).]

 

[cwoody222]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Robman: I get the impression that the Select/Enter thing will never be fixed because the designers do not agree that it's wrong, which is their right of course, it's their system. And I am willing to concede that the people who use Replay as a kind of cable box rather than a time-shifting device would probably want to keep the button assignment as it is, which is why it's probably going to stay the way it is. So, here's what I propose: It occurs to me that the only time that the ENTER button has a function is when you want to directly select a channel by entering the channel number followed by ENTER, and in this instance the SELECT button also performs the same function. So, if the ENTER button was made to function just like a SELECT button in all other cases, such as selecting items from a menu or entering data in the "Find Shows" screen, then those of us that would like to see the SELECT button always function like a SELECT button, could simply move the ENTER button to the SELECT button on our remotes (using the 994 command) and the people who like things just the way they are, can leave them so. I would also suggest making the PLAY button perform the same function as the 'current' SELECT button when viewing the Channel Guide, for those of us that think this is the more logical button for this. I think this solution should make everyone happy, no? Woody, Mike, any thoughts?

Sounds perfect to me!

 

[FreezeFrame]



I vote for the write in candidate(option):


Go to the CFP and enter "RobmanSwitcheroo" which toggles the Enter/Select interpretation! Fame and function in one go! Bet yah it's a 10 min hack!

 

[The Robman]

... and when you do that, you'll see a message on the screen that says...


"Robman loves Lisa"


------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

 

[Chris Myers]

Rob,
Quote:

Maybe you could have two versions of the cursor pad, one with the real SELECT button in the middle, and another with the ENTER function in the middle, and when you press the Channel Guide button it takes you to the second version, but when you press some other menu button (such as Replay Guide) it would take you to the first version.

Actually, I do have different screens for Channel Guide and Replay Guide. My Channel Guide screen allows for direct number entry, where that is obviously not needed in the Replay Guide. However, one can't just use the ENTER button in place of SELECT in the Channel Guide because ENTER won't do anything except popup the menu.

 

[FreezeFrame]

I don't think that it's a design flaw, it's more like a design decision that you disagree with. It's clear that us humans overload our language by allowing words to mean different things in different contexts. "Selecting" a show in the channel guide can logically mean either "select it for viewing" OR "select the menu associated with that show". The dilemma is which one should take precedence. Do you go with "consistency" or "ease of use". Clearly the most frequent operation on a highlighted show it to view it, therfore the decision was made to use "select" to mean "Select this show for viewing". This creates the inconsistency, something us humans seem to deal with on a regular basis.


Hmm, reminds me of the current debate over presidential chad! Was the users "intent" to "view the show" or "view the menu". There really is no way to know!


Personally I favor the current mechanism because it keeps the buttons used in "channel surfing" close together. In fact I would like to see that technique extended so that other freqent operational sequences hover around the arrow key grouping. For example during setup, allow left/right arrows to move you forward/back. Also more importantly in Zones, allow left arrow to mean go back to previous level. I *really* wish remotes could handle double clicks, that would make a lot more things possible with arrow keys! i.e. Double click right == Fast Forward! ...

 

[The Robman]

Quote:

Originally posted by FreezeFrame: I don't think that it's a design flaw, it's more like a design decision that you disagree with.

This much is true.

Quote:

Originally posted by FreezeFrame: Clearly the most frequent operation on a highlighted show it to view it, ...

I have to disagree with you there. This statement is probably true for the people who basically use Replay as a kinda cable box and often select the show currently playing for viewing, but those of us that use Replay mainly for time-shifting purposes are more likely to want to get the menu so we can "find all shows" or set up the show to record, etc. We can of course, still select "Tune To This Channel" if we want to.


But surely my proposed fix is the best of both worlds. If you like things just the way they are, then you don't need to do anything, but those of us that would like to switch the buttons around, can do so.




------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

 

[The Robman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Myers: However, one can't just use the ENTER button in place of SELECT in the Channel Guide because ENTER won't do anything except popup the menu.

Actually Chris, now that I think about it some more, you could create an exact duplicate copy of your Channel Guide panel, and have the SELECT button on the first be the ENTER button and on the second it could be the real SELECT button, then when you press Channel Guide you jump to the first version, so far so good. Then when you press SELECT on the first panel, it jumps you to the second version where SELECT is really SELECT, so you can select a menu item.


I haven't tried to walk thru this idea yet to see how all the various combinations would line up, but I'm posting it in case it sparks off even greater creativity on your part.




------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

 

[The Robman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Myers: However, one can't just use the ENTER button in place of SELECT in the Channel Guide because ENTER won't do anything except popup the menu.

You right, I guess I hadn't thought it all the way through. I guess that just means that it's even more important that we get some sort of a fix.


------------------

Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

 

[cwoody222]

YOu know what's the worst part about this?


I was playing around with this last night. When you use ENTER to get the popup of a currently playing show the ENTER key will NOT work - only SELECT.


So, the way you're SUPPOSED TO use the remote to get the popup on currently recording shows is:


Press ENTER to bring up the menu

Press SELECT to select your choice


That sounds like a serious design flaw - two different buttons just to get to a common menu item?


This alone should convince Replay to switch this...

 

[Chris Myers]

Rob,

You're trying to make my head hurt, aren't you http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ?

If the Pronto had any kind of state variables, that would be pretty easy to accomplish. As it is, once you got to the second screen with 'select' being SELECT, you'd have to stay there through X operations (while goofing with the menu or subsequent ReplayTV screens), and then get back to the first screen with 'select' being ENTER. I don't think there's a clean way to do it without having a mode changing button, which would kind of miss the point in the first place. I like to keep the Pronto screens context sensitive to cut down on clutter and increase the WAF http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif !